Gunsmithing Newbie question

[Witch_Doctor]

I have searched the forum, but have not found anything, so please help. I just goy my Remy 5R back from George and the guys at GA Precision, and they did a great job on the rifle. I went to the range the following day it came back to me and put about 60 rounds down range. Normal day, used sand bags on a bench rest. I noticed that there was what appeared to be brass scuffs on the receiver behind the ejection port, little nicks in a nice little row. I cycled several rounds through it, but they did not appear to hit the receiver. I spoke with Karey at GA, he advised me to send it back. When George looked at it he said it was from ejecting brass. Not that I doubt him, because I don't, but is this normal? Seems that the cerakote would be a bit tuffer.

As a side note the electrical tape is a great idea, with it on the rifle I can definitely see the brass marks left behind from cycling.

 

[our gang]

Re: Newbie question

A case being extracted and ejected from ANY bolt action rifle should not hit the rifle ANYWHERE. I have a 721 (300 H&H), 722 (222 Rem) 700 as made (300 Weatherby) 2 custom 700s (244 H&H and 400 H&H) and none of them have ever had a case hit the rifle.
I would suspect the ejector plunger but could not be sure.
Have somebody watch as you cycle the rifle to see what is happening.
To make those marks the case is either doing a 180 degree turn on the way out or is hitting something (rail, mount, scope) and being deflected into the action rear ring.
In any case it is not acceptable, especially for the bucks you have sunk in it.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: Newbie question

When I cycle the bolt slowly it doesn't hit anything, it goes straight out of the ejection port. If I cycle the bolt normally, it doesn't do it all the time, usually about 1 out of 12 times. It is also not hitting the base or the scope. I know it is doing this because I can see the brass residue on the electrical tape in the same places where the nicks occurred. It is strange, but as I said in my OP when I spoke to Karey at GA, he informed me that George said it was not unusual, and even showed him other rifles in their vault that had the same marks.

 

[divejay]

Re: Newbie question

i got the same problem on my remmy, i didnt know this till talked to some of my buddys and they told me that was from ejecting the brass. they told me to put clear tape. and will stop from making it worst.
here look closely and you will see the marks. its not a big deal to me.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: Newbie question

I appreciate the response, when mine came back from GA it had a piece of black electrical tape on the rear ring to cover it. Nice stick by the way, I am saving a few bones to go the AICS route on mine.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Newbie question

i personally don't see this as being a problem at all. i'd much rather have my brass eject out the side than up to an angle where it hits the windage knob on the scope, even if it is doing a 180 and the case neck hit the rear of the receiver. if it were hitting somewhere that would bounce it back into the ejection port, then i'd want it fixed. i think you have good positive ejection.

 

[Hateca]

Re: Newbie question

This isn't a problem and is very normal to have ejection marks from the brass in this area on a Remington or with any rifle that uses a plunger type ejector, or fast ejection action. Ever seen the ejection marks on a Fal or an old AR-15 without the case deflector?

Again this is not unusual and isn't worth sending it back to George for him to mess around with the ejector to keep this from happing. Just about every Remington I've seen does this.

The case mouth is the part of the brass that is hitting this area. As the case is ejected from the chamber and clears the ejection port the brass will do a 180 leaving the ejection port and the brass hits the rear of the receiver. The brass is hitting nothing else before it hits the side of the receiver, it's just the action of the ejector.

If it annoys you simply cutting a half a coil from the ejector spring until you get the ejection action you want but have another spring on hand in case you go too far.

On another note larger calibers will not always show this trait due to the longer case length and the weight of the empty brass.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: Newbie question

I appreciate all the intel guys, this is my first Remy and it was just weird to me. I don't mind the nicks, I just wanted to make sure I didn't need to be concerned or have a smith look at it. Again thanks for all the responses.

If I hadn't said this before, GA did a great job, and the customer service was great, can't say enough about them.

 

[our gang]

Re: Newbie question

Re: "larger calibers".... larger than a 300 Weatherby or 400 H&H?
None of mine do it. Glad I didn't spend thousands to "improve" a 700. After looking at 100s and 100s over the years at shops and shows I have never seen one with a damaged receiver from case strikes. Cases should eject to the right and from 30 degrees in front to 60 degrees to the rear of the ejection port (depending on how you operate the bolt and the weight of the empty).
I repeat: no bolt action rifle should eject brass that hits the rifle anywhere. My 03s' don't, my Model 70s don't, my Mausers don't, my Tikkas don't, my Remingtons don't and even my Merkel SR-1 and ARs semi autos don't.
Your rifle, you can live with the defect if you wish, but IMO you are being BSed by the "custom maker".
Obvious from the other posts that it is a systematic defect in
"custom tactical 700s" that does not exist in factory rifles or any other reputable brand.
Going to a gunshow on the 31st. I'll make a point of looking at every used push feed centerfire Remington bolt action there to see if I can find any evidence of case strikes.
Were it my rifle, I would call Brownell's tech staff and describe the problem. Dollar to a dime you have a plunger/plunger spring problem.
I had a different problem with my 244 H&H. The extractor failed several times and when it did work, the empties ended up in the race way. A SAKO extractor conversion, a new plunger spring and polishing the plunger and plunger hole fixed that. (A 244 H&H is a VERY high pressure round with some case taper that will test any spring type extractor). Now it runs like a 98 Mauser!
244 H&H:

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Newbie question

everyone knows that safe queens don't show ejection marks

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Newbie question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">everyone knows that safe queens don't show ejection marks </div></div>

Ding....ding...ding WE HAVE A WINNER!!

 

[300sniper]

Re: Newbie question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">everyone knows that safe queens don't show ejection marks </div></div>

 

[Rob01]

Re: Newbie question

It's perfectly normal as HateCA stated. Don't waste the money sending it back. It happened in my factory 700s, custom 700s and even with a custom action. My team mates have it on their Surgeons. There is no defect or BSing involved. It's from working the bolt fast which Mr humble you obviously have never done with your plethora of hunting rifle you continue to post pics of.

Here's my .308 Rem 700 and 6.5 Creedmoor Templar. The .308 has so many you can't really even tell they are there as it looks like the finish but the 6.5 is a newer rifle and only has about 1200 rounds through it.

ETA: Boltripper has got that right.

 

[Hateca]

Re: Newbie question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Re: "larger calibers".... larger than a 300 Weatherby or 400 H&H?
None of mine do it. Glad I didn't spend thousands to "improve" a 700. After looking at 100s and 100s over the years at shops and shows I have never seen one with a damaged receiver from case strikes. Cases should eject to the right and from 30 degrees in front to 60 degrees to the rear of the ejection port (depending on how you operate the bolt and the weight of the empty).
I repeat: no bolt action rifle should eject brass that hits the rifle anywhere. My 03s' don't, my Model 70s don't, my Mausers don't, my Tikkas don't, my Remingtons don't and even my Merkel SR-1 and ARs semi autos don't.
Your rifle, you can live with the defect if you wish, but IMO you are being BSed by the "custom maker".
</div></div>

If you have never seen it in any rifle then you're one luck sucker and you better go buy a lottery ticket.

Again this is not a defect it is normal and will happen just as I said. Not only in bolt guns but with simi-auto as well. This is one of the main reasons for the case deflector an AR's made today, to keep the brass from coming straight back into the face of the left hand shooter.

This will not be as obvious on new factory blued Remington’s because the finish will not show it as well, but if you look close you will see it there as well. The re-finished rifles utilizing Cerakote or some other spray on finish will show this and be quite obvious after numerous rounds fired.

I'm not even going to comment about me, a custom builder, "BS-ing" anyone, because it sounds like you might be very close to calling me a liar.

 

[dtask]

Re: Newbie question

+1

 

[Graham]

Re: Newbie question

Randy's no liar. One day I want him to agree to build me a rifle, but I haven't grovelled enough yet.

What you describe is not a problem unless the case is doing a 180 and landing back in the ejection port, as it did when I ejected hard with my Surgeon. But Moon has a fix for that, too. Try - a few times - pulling the bolt back hard with an empty in the chamber. If the brass case ejects clear, then like those above have said, you're fine.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: Newbie question

I appreciate all of the input and information. I have played with the action considerably, and it is just the dynamics of the action. The plunger ejects the brass quite positively, and on fast cycling the brass does a 180 hitting the rear ring. I also recived a pm from George explaining it as well, no worries, nothing a piece of electrical tape won't prevent. Besides guns without scratches have no character, and this one is my first into the practical precision shooting world so I suspect more will come. Rifles are meant to be shot, function over beauty.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Newbie question

Yeah don't sweat some small marks on the rifle. Hell my first time out with my new 6.5 Creedmoor I was shooting it in a match next to a guy with an AR10 and his brass was ejecting out and smacking the paint job on my stock. Rifles get scraped on things and banged into things at matches. No worries. Part of the life of a working rifle. You can see the AR10 wounds in the grip section in this pic LOL

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Newbie question

yeah the cosmetic shit i wouldnt worry about, my 700 has the same marks, except mine are fresh brass from this weekend. keep shooting and putting rounds down range, we all cant have safe queens like Humble up there.

 

[bohem]

Re: Newbie question

You won't see it from a loaded round. HateCA covered it very well, the part I'd add (he may have said this as well, but I missed it) is that the extra weight in the loaded round ejecting gets the round clear of the action while it's spinning in the air before it can hit the action. The extra mass adds so much moment of inertia that it's spin rate is slower and it doesn't make it around to thump the action before it's clear completely.

The empty case is much more weight biased towards the case head, and rotates very quickly about it. The marks you see are from the neck hitting the receiver.

I'd be willing to bet that your fired brass has a small, if barely noticable, flatness to the neck, it's not round by a few thousandths, probably less than 10 total.

As stated, this happens from plunger style ejectors. My AR has brass marks on the deflector, my Savage 12 has a little piece of black electrical tape on the back.

 

[Thud]

Re: Newbie question

Why do we need to sweat the little sh*t. As always BR and Randy and others are correct. Learn for the doers not the wanabees.