• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Newbie questions: short brass length and die issues

Islas82

Supporter
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 18, 2019
2,124
887
North Las Vegas
So I started reloading about a year ago, my first cartridge was 6.5 creedmoor and so far it has been a breeze. About 4 months I put together a 6 creedmoor rifle (tenacity action and proof 26” SS barrel) and started with that, I have a couple loads worked up that shoot great but I have been having issues with my brass and dies.

Am using Lapua SRP and Forster full size non bushing die at this point brass has been fired 6x and I anneal after every firing. First issue is I noticed that brass is really short at the neck, am bumping the standard 2 thou but my brass length as of now is 1.884 after sizing a bit shorter before, I don’t understand why. I measured the rest of the brass still new in the box and they average 1.912. I have never trimmed this brass.

This brings us to issue number two, the sizing die. I use whidden dies for my 6.5 cm and those things are awesome in comparison the Forster sizing die feels really tight (not really impressed with the micrometer seating die either) I started to notice that after I sized there’s a lot of brass shaving on the necks of my brass and inside the die, almost as if theres sharp edges cutting into the necks. I am using RCBS lube every time on a rock chucker press.

Am starting to think that maybe those brass shaving are coming from the top of the neck and that’s why it’s short? Am quite new to this game so any advice from more experienced reloader is appreciated.
 

Attachments

  • D93C40E4-3680-4036-90EA-870454ED2087.jpeg
    D93C40E4-3680-4036-90EA-870454ED2087.jpeg
    231 KB · Views: 74
  • F065DEAF-1948-46CA-8B8F-007B86DCA9A2.jpeg
    F065DEAF-1948-46CA-8B8F-007B86DCA9A2.jpeg
    342.3 KB · Views: 83
Assuming you haven’t already done this, Id take apart the die, clean and closely inspect it. Make sure that there’s no scoring or burrs especially around the shoulder, neck area, etc.

The die itself could also be out of spec. How long have you been using it and having these issues? Has it been happening since you first got it or just started after otherwise sizing brass normally?

Are you trimming before you size?

ETA: if you can’t get it fixed via the forum, PM me. Perhaps a second pair eyes can help…
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
Are you bumping the shoulder? It sounds to me like you are not. If you have a comparator and head space gauge you can compare the two. Properly sized brass should .001 below head space gauge. Undersized brass will come out of the die short.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
Assuming you haven’t already done this, Id take apart the die, clean and closely inspect it. Make sure that there’s no scoring or burrs especially around the shoulder, neck area, etc.

The die itself could also be out of spec. How long have you been using it and having these issues? Has it been happening since you first got it or just started after otherwise sizing brass normally?

Are you trimming before you size?

ETA: if you can’t get it fixed via the forum, PM me. Perhaps a second pair eyes can help…
I cleaned it really well when I first got it but haven’t inspected it closely to be honest. Am pretty sure this issue has been happening since the beginning. Been using this for since I started loading for this rifle around 3 months. No I have never trimmed brass since it has never been long enough to do so.
 
Are you bumping the shoulder? It sounds to me like you are not. If you have a comparator and head space gauge you can compare the two. Properly sized brass should .001 below head space gauge. Undersized brass will come out of the die short.
I will try the head space gauge comparison. But I am bumping 2 thou and using the short action customs comparator to make sure, it shows 2 thou bump every time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snuby642
I cleaned it really well when I first got it but haven’t inspected it closely to be honest. Am pretty sure this issue has been happening since the beginning. Been using this for since I started loading for this rifle around 3 months. No I have never trimmed brass since it has never been long enough to do so.
Rgr, double check the die adjustment as well. If you’re bumping the shoulder .002 relative to its fired case head-to-shoulder measurement, then something else is going on.
 
When measuring for bump, are removing fired primer first? If not, you are not measuring actual bump. It will be interesting to see the numbers compared to head space gauge.
 
When measuring for bump, are removing fired primer first? If not, you are not measuring actual bump. It will be interesting to see the numbers compared to head space gauge.
Yes am measuring with primer off. Here’s my current bump compared to a Forster head space gauge.
 

Attachments

  • 84D12907-4E03-4954-B27C-E170D619C3E8.jpeg
    84D12907-4E03-4954-B27C-E170D619C3E8.jpeg
    364.3 KB · Views: 79
  • 7DED6809-306F-4431-954C-115B79FD6660.jpeg
    7DED6809-306F-4431-954C-115B79FD6660.jpeg
    334.6 KB · Views: 69
  • Like
Reactions: John Glidewell
Yes am measuring with primer off. Here’s my current bump compared to a Forster head space gauge.
Is that headspace gauge the exact same length as your rifle’s chamber or is it a “go-gauge”?

what is the measurement of one of your fired cases (primer removed)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
why are you bumping from a headspace guage and not fired formed brass?
Am not bumping from headspace gauge, am bumping from fire form brass on this chamber. Those pictures were for a question I was asked. My bump is 2 thou back from my fired brass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snuby642
that brass in first picture looks like the mouth has bottomed out on something its pretty deformed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
that brass in first picture looks like the mouth has bottomed out on something its pretty deformed.
That’s why am thinking something is up with the die. Look at all the brass I just cleaned out of it.
 

Attachments

  • 36ECA2FA-767D-4B5E-979F-F124B5CAD186.jpeg
    36ECA2FA-767D-4B5E-979F-F124B5CAD186.jpeg
    269.7 KB · Views: 86
Yeah. Weird. How is the top of your die set up? Meaning, how far down is the top threaded in? Could it be to far in die?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
is your die touching the shell holder? Can you try sizing a piece of brass without the expander/decap pin?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
It’s a go-gauge.
Ok. I use a headspace gauge set for my .308 rifles that has gauges in .001 increments for the saami range of chamber lengths so was wondering if you were doing the same thing with a similar set.

I think it’s your die. Going from .912 to .884 is a yuge difference in CH-SD measurement. Wanted to get the basic trouble shooting out the way first…

Can you take a picture of it installed in the press and post it? Just want to see the set and if anything jumps out as problematic
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
Yeah. Weird. How is the top of your die set up? Meaning, how far down is the top threaded in? Could it be to far in die?
I have tried it screwed in half way and even completely off, same result. I had already thought it might be hitting it but I don’t think it is.
 
That's crazy. I use whidden dies and don't have any issues. Could be a bad die I suppose. Will be interesting to see if you figure it out. You have another brand die you can use?
 
Decapping die doing it? If your messing it up with the Decapping it makes sense the shavings in the FL die
 
Ok. I use a headspace gauge set for my .308 rifles that has gauges in .001 increments for the saami range of chamber lengths so was wondering if you were doing the same thing with a similar set.

I think it’s your die. Going from .912 to .884 is a yuge difference in CH-SD measurement. Wanted to get the basic trouble shooting out the way first…

Can you take a picture of it installed in the press and post it? Just want to see the set and if anything jumps out as problematic
 

Attachments

  • A1741A3C-37F2-4B7F-81F2-D4181253474D.jpeg
    A1741A3C-37F2-4B7F-81F2-D4181253474D.jpeg
    592 KB · Views: 62
  • 52A8DBD7-D4A5-4535-A061-5CA9664A6C99.jpeg
    52A8DBD7-D4A5-4535-A061-5CA9664A6C99.jpeg
    621.5 KB · Views: 59
  • Like
Reactions: nn8734
can u take a brand new piece of brass run it through your Decapping die than through your mandrel and lets see a picture. Ur bottoming out the casehead somewhere
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
That's crazy. I use whidden dies and don't have any issues. Could be a bad die I suppose. Will be interesting to see if you figure it out. You have another brand die you can use?
This is actually a Forster die. My whidden dies are 6.5cm
 
take that bushing out of the FL die as well if not using Decapping rod don't need that
 
There should not be anything in any sizing die that cuts, gouges or removes brass.

Forster has a good reputation and will probably make it right.

Stop using it and contact the mfg.

Do you have a lenght after fired before sizing for an example?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
can u take a brand new piece of brass run it through your Decapping die than through your mandrel and lets see a picture. Ur bottoming out the casehead somewhere
Ok new piece of brass. Ran through decaper no problem then ran through mandrel no problem.
 

Attachments

  • 0B9556FC-E5E3-4EB6-BFC8-ACD12685F7B9.jpeg
    0B9556FC-E5E3-4EB6-BFC8-ACD12685F7B9.jpeg
    297.7 KB · Views: 59
  • BEF89237-E3DB-432E-800D-70407AFA2485.jpeg
    BEF89237-E3DB-432E-800D-70407AFA2485.jpeg
    527.8 KB · Views: 52
  • 965D34AA-87B9-4113-8DAB-58EC4604879D.jpeg
    965D34AA-87B9-4113-8DAB-58EC4604879D.jpeg
    571.9 KB · Views: 60
  • A1F94806-0C47-46D9-8148-3EB2966262CD.jpeg
    A1F94806-0C47-46D9-8148-3EB2966262CD.jpeg
    314.5 KB · Views: 70
  • Like
Reactions: Mudflap621
But check this out. Same piece of new brass, ran through the die and I removed the top piece and not sure if you can see it in the picture but the “flare” is there.
 

Attachments

  • 03B540D4-7B5F-44F0-8255-935992796C64.jpeg
    03B540D4-7B5F-44F0-8255-935992796C64.jpeg
    271 KB · Views: 68
Remove what ever is threaded in the top of that die and run another piece of brass. It is bottoming on something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Islas82
can see the flare but doesn't look crushed like the other one. don't forget you still gotta run expander mandrel and now the brass is probably longer. doesn't even look like that the shoulder was touched on that piece does it?
 
There should not be anything in any sizing die that cuts, gouges or removes brass.

Forster has a good reputation and will probably make it right.

Stop using it and contact the mfg.

Do you have a lenght after fired before sizing for an example?
I resize everything this morning but if I remember correctly length was around 1.845 before sizing.
 
can see the flare but doesn't look crushed like the other one. don't forget you still gotta run expander mandrel and now the brass is probably longer. doesn't even look like that the shoulder was touched on that piece does it?
It was a brand new piece of brass, let me run the mandrel now that the neck has been sized and see what happens.
 
Ok new piece of brass. Ran through decaper no problem then ran through mandrel no problem.
Was that sequence just a test?
Because the mandrell should not touch (move) anything on an unsized neck.
 
Was that sequence just a test?
Because the mandrell should not touch (move) anything on an unsized neck.
Ok here it goes. So I ran a brand new piece of brass through the decaper and mandrel (first pic) then I ran the same piece of brass through the sizing die with top removed (pic 2) and I just ran the “sized” brass through the mandrel again (pic 3). After I ran it through the mandrel the second time it actually looks better that’s the 3rd picture. Look closely at the bottom of the neck on the second picture, you guys see that line? Is that normal?
 

Attachments

  • 2DE7C4D3-F28A-497B-BBAD-33A4B393DB6B.jpeg
    2DE7C4D3-F28A-497B-BBAD-33A4B393DB6B.jpeg
    314.5 KB · Views: 73
  • 80AF50A5-3027-45E8-90B6-6F2561A538D0.jpeg
    80AF50A5-3027-45E8-90B6-6F2561A538D0.jpeg
    284.3 KB · Views: 73
  • B8BCBBFE-4415-483C-80BC-6F33AB9AC1BD.jpeg
    B8BCBBFE-4415-483C-80BC-6F33AB9AC1BD.jpeg
    277.7 KB · Views: 68
Ok here it goes. So I ran a brand new piece of brass through the decaper and mandrel (first pic) then I ran the same piece of brass through the sizing die with top removed (pic 2) and I just ran the “sized” brass through the mandrel again (pic 3). After I ran it through the mandrel the second time it actually looks better that’s the 3rd picture. Look closely at the bottom of the neck on the second picture, you guys see that line? Is that normal?
That piece looks good to me. That line looks like that's where your neck sizing is stopping. Not to be a pain in the ass but what if you take that piece of brass and chamber it lets see if it changes. That piece of brass definitely looks way better than the piece in your first picture and only thing you haven't done with it is put it in your chamber yet.
 
That piece looks good to me. That line looks like that's where your neck sizing is stopping. Not to be a pain in the ass but what if you take that piece of brass and chamber it lets see if it changes. That piece of brass definitely looks way better than the piece in your first picture and only thing you haven't done with it is put it in your chamber yet.
That’s scary, but fuck it we took it this long.
 
what's scary there aint nothing in it? the right way to do it would be to take ejector and firing pin out of bolt and that piece of brass should just go in and bolt drop with no resistance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Glidewell