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NiteQwill

Best to jump high, and far!
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 26, 2012
2,666
3,851
Uncle Sam's Bottom
I haven't seen any scores posted... was there an issue?

Any improvement on the prize table walk compared to the last 2 years?
 
Match was a great time. Had a blast hanging with everyone and shooting meme guns at long distances.

That being said, it was a bit of a clusterfuck in more ways than 1 this year. I'm still gonna shoot it next year, but i sincerely hope they figure some things out for it. Nothing against the MD or land owner. Both are great guys and I am very appreciative of their time and generosity that even make this match a possibility.

No scores or arbitration at the end of day 2 was a bold choice, especially when the scores are very wrong for more than a few people. I could care less about the prize table, yeah, it's cool getting something awesome, but i'm not a poor so it isn't going to financially destroy me that i didn't get something i can sell later. But kinda weird to hand out trophies when we aren't even sure that the scores are correct.

Probably just need to get rid of the movers entirely, or make them a side stage. That way match flow doesn't get borked when they inevitably go down and we have a massive pileup on one stage for multiple hours.

Lastly, and most importantly, the lack of an 800% prairie dog target at 2000 yards is disturbing to say the least. I just wanna slay a prairie godzilla.

Like i said, match is an absolute blast, and i will definitely be back next year. But some good criticism never hurt anyone.
 
This was my first time at the match and this was my thoughts…
First and foremost, the ranch is beautiful, the stages were fun, and I had an absolute blast shooting with my friends.
1.) With over 100,000 dollars in entry fees, there is no reason that every target beyond 1000 yards doesn’t have a hit indicator. This helps the ROs out a ton. The stage where everything got backed up and all the squads were at was a mess. I hit the third target on the first shot and the RO said to me “I can’t see it, so it’s a miss”. Thankfully one of the 100 people sitting there came up and vouched so we got the points.
2.) Letting the ROs walk the prize table for their match when there was only a handful of them shooting was unacceptable. I was an RO for KRG this year and Burris donated a scope that specifically was for the winner of the RO match. The winner did not get to walk the prize table. I understand that ROs volunteer their time to do this but they should not take precedent over people who have potentially thousands of dollars invested into this match. I wasn’t going to win anything, but if I was 5th in open/heavy and an RO went before me, I would be pissed.
3.) Scoring was an absolute disaster.
4.) I won’t say the stage number, but one of the ROs (everyone else was amazing) was way too high up on his horse. He actually berated my friend for shooting a factory rifle, with factory ammo, and a Leupold Mark 5 optic. It wasn’t friendly banter, he was being a dick.
5.) More bathrooms. 5 outhouses for 340 people ain’t enough. They were disgusting come Sunday morning.
6.) The massive delay. There were so many squads backed up at stage 15 that there had to be gaps somewhere. Shuttle people to the gaps to get things moving again, or bring over some awnings so people aren’t just baking to the ground. That was pretty miserable.
7.) Face the music. People are pissed and they have a right to be. The nothing burger post on FB isn’t addressing the legitimate gripes people have. They want people to reach out, but then never respond. So naturally, the next thing is to come to the forums or groups and talk about it.
 
If the RO shoot the same course of fire. Why not let them walk, for for 1st or 2nd place wins? Just have the order be : teams, open, hunter, women, jr, RO, Leo. Do that for 1-3, then do shooter rank from there. ( Divide team scores by 2)
 
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So we should just stay away from our 1st NF ELR match in 2025 then since he'd be driving 17hrs 1 way? Asking for a friend.
 
So we should just stay away from our 1st NF ELR match in 2025 then since he'd be driving 17hrs 1 way? Asking for a friend.
Nah. You should go. Its a great match, and you will have fun. Every match has problems, they will get fixed. Just go to have fun.
 
If the RO shoot the same course of fire. Why not let them walk, for for 1st or 2nd place wins? Just have the order be : teams, open, hunter, women, jr, RO, Leo. Do that for 1-3, then do shooter rank from there. ( Divide team scores by 2)
Prize table walks should always be based on overall shooter order. People shooting SPED divisions and other shit for points, get their points and trophies, but prizes should go to overall winners in score. And Teams placement should have a 10% penalty since they get the benefit of working together and "coaching" on the clock. For example a single shooter gets 105 and Team gets 200, divide that by 2 then take away 10% so each guy is 90 points for table walk. A single shooter who finishes with half the score of a team, should always get an earlier walk. They shot better with less information and help. Or there should be a completely different prize tables for Teams.

Or just make the prize table completely random if you cant figure out how to make it fair. Then no one can bitch about random chance. This would also help when you cant manage to get scores entered or have an arbitration period, or any of the other stuff that is a requirement of a match director.

As a MD, fucking up the prize table is probably going to make you catch more shit that doing just about anything else wrong. Making sure its fair and people aren't getting screwed over should damn near be priority #1 if you don't want the wrath of social media to come down. There are alot of people running matches, who have no business doing so.
 
If the RO shoot the same course of fire. Why not let them walk, for for 1st or 2nd place wins? Just have the order be : teams, open, hunter, women, jr, RO, Leo. Do that for 1-3, then do shooter rank from there. ( Divide team scores by 2)
Because there was 4 of them and two of them walked. That’s not right for shooting 9 or 10 stages over people who shot the whole thing
 
No, they only shot half of it on Saturday and there was only 4 of them
ROs traditionally shoot the entire CoF on Friday. Where are you getting your information from? Even looking at the day one scores on Practiscore has a lot more than just 4 ROs.

Edit: Also, having ROs shoot on Saturday would make no sense since they need to RO you.
 
Fuck I’d be pissed too.

IMG_3090.jpeg
 
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Your attempt at being a jackass almost worked. Notice my name on there twice? Look at 37 with Douglas Bercot. And it’s 11 points short. They had us as a team and somehow 6 points ended up under just my name. But good try. Where did you finish at?
IMG_4582.png
 
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And that’s still only the one day total. We had 77 day one and finished at 127. Pretty happy with that score for our first time but I am really curious where killer134 finished at.
 
So, what you're saying is, you averaged out to around 63.5 points. Which if we base it off of last years total scores since we still don't know the real totals for this year, means you probably would have placed somewhere in the hundreds individually. But also you had a teammate with you, spotting and giving you corrections on the fly having the benefit of fresh windcalls and more information during your time shooting unlike the individual shooters, so let's subtract 10% bringing you to 57.15 points. This would place you somewhere around mid pack, 150th probably. Not terrible. Not great.
 
Yeah something like that. I just wanted to provide my feedback about the ROs walking the table ahead of people who actually did really good and I made it clear I wasn’t one of them so I guess that makes me the bad guy and now everyone’s coming at me about where I finished and shooting on a team with my friend so I’ll fuck off about it.
 
Sir, this is SnipersHide. Why you thought anything on this forum would result in people being respectable i have no clue. I'm just here to stir shit up and get people angry. dhamira iliyokamilika
 
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Don't worry about people trashing your score. They don't even shoot, are too scared to compete and never seem to post their own scores.

You got out there and did the best you could and hopefully had some fun. The guy who won and the guy who came in last still respect you more than the keyboard competitors.

You will quickly come to realize the opinions of people who don't also compete with you don't matter. They don't even understand the sport. Their opinions are worthless so don't waste time caring about them.
 
Also, the RO's who shot the match did shoot the entire COF. As they have the years prior. Which is why check in and zero cannot take place before Noon because the RO's are shooting on that section of the range.
 
Don't worry about people trashing your score. They don't even shoot, are too scared to compete and never seem to post their own scores.

You got out there and did the best you could and hopefully had some fun. The guy who won and the guy who came in last still respect you more than the keyboard competitors.
You're too scared to shoot this match anyways. So your opinion is invalid.
 
Wow, glad I didn't make sacrifices to get to this match. Sounds like a shit show. I listened to a few podcasts with I think the MD and landowner and they sounded like nice guys, but even a few months ago didn't really seem like they knew what was going on with their match.


I'm going to be annoyed if this pushes even more traffic to the KRG match. That one I can say ran almost flawlessly this year, no smoke and mirrors bullshit.
 
Wow, glad I didn't make sacrifices to get to this match. Sounds like a shit show. I listened to a few podcasts with I think the MD and landowner and they sounded like nice guys, but even a few months ago didn't really seem like they knew what was going on with their match.


I'm going to be annoyed if this pushes even more traffic to the KRG match. That one I can say ran almost flawlessly this year, no smoke and mirrors bullshit.
I decided I'm shooting the krg next year haha but already had plans to do so but made it even clearer for me.
 
2.) Letting the ROs walk the prize table for their match when there was only a handful of them shooting was unacceptable. I was an RO for KRG this year and Burris donated a scope that specifically was for the winner of the RO match. The winner did not get to walk the prize table. I understand that ROs volunteer their time to do this but they should not take precedent over people who have potentially thousands of dollars invested into this match. I wasn’t going to win anything, but if I was 5th in open/heavy and an RO went before me, I would be pissed.
If they shoot the whole COF, I strongly disagree... but I saw your other comment. As far as I'm aware, it's very unusual for ROs to not shoot the whole COF. You're positive they only shot part?

Also, the ROs usually have the same or greater $ invested. They're typically avid shooters. Waiving match fees helps compensate for an extra day of hotel/tranportation/etc, but not a lost day of work

4.) I won’t say the stage number, but one of the ROs (everyone else was amazing) was way too high up on his horse. He actually berated my friend for shooting a factory rifle, with factory ammo, and a Leupold Mark 5 optic. It wasn’t friendly banter, he was being a dick.
That really sucks... one really shit RO can rain on a shooter's match (particularly a new shooter). That said, for every RO that is truly an unjustified dick, there's at least 5 dick shooters that good ROs need to be firm with. I imagine it can sometimes be difficult for an MD to distinguish between the two

Or there should be a completely different prize tables for Teams.
NRL Hunter has to do this, because Teams have such a significant advantage. The Teams' segregated prize tables I've seen have always been pretty good, too (but that's heavily dependent on the MD)

You will quickly come to realize the opinions of people who don't also compete with you don't matter.
It's good to talk to people who don't compete... the dumbest shit you'll ever hear about comps will always come from people who've never shot a match. It's a good baseline to see how much we've learned from when we too knew nothing
 
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If they shoot the whole COF, I strongly disagree... but I saw your other comment. As far as I'm aware, it's very unusual for ROs to not shoot the whole COF. You're positive they only shot part?

Also, the ROs usually have the same or greater $ invested. They're typically avid shooters. Waiving match fees helps compensate for an extra day of hotel/tranportation/etc, but not a lost day of work

I'm having to read between a bunch of lines here, but my best understanding is that they treated the ROs as their own class. So table walk went something like 1st Hunter, 1st, Heavy, 1st RO. 2nd Hunter, 2nd Heavy, 2nd RO.... etc. Which is an absolutely WILD way to do it.

I don't think anyone is actually saying the RO's shouldn't walk the table (if they shoot the same COF), it should just be in their order of placement like every other match I've ever been to.
 
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It was my first year and we had a blast. COF was fun and overall we really enjoyed the match and will be back next year.

I agree there was a couple RO's that had no business being there. Not seeing Impacts and not being professional about it when multiple seasoned shooters(even past winners) saw the impacts. More hit indicators may have helped.

There was definitely some scoring issues. The ELR stage that was worth 6 points max had multiple people with 8 points after day 1. Maybe I'm missing something 🤷‍♂️

The prize table order was odd. We placed top 10 in teams and walked almost 60th from what I could count. Had friends whos names were never even called.
 
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3hr backup on stage 15 was the worst part. Something with the mover is fucked every year, just delete entirely. Movers are fun but they’re not Disneyland line wait fun.

As soon as the MD said the table walk format, I knew there was going to be a lot of complaints. It’s really not hard to come up with a reasonable plan for that.
 
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On one hand the RO's get to shoot nice fresh painted targets (assuming they were painted) but on the other hand they have to shoot a 2 days worth of stages in 1 day, and then sit out and herd cattle for 2 more days. Not exactly an easy task. All MD's do it a little different. Its not the worst prize order I have ever heard of.

The bigger issue is people who shot well, had their scores screwed up and no arbitration. There have been a few top 10 guys who didn't even get to walk the table because their names were never called. And who knows who really won anyway.

That is completely unacceptable for any match and based on issues at their previous ones, they probably shouldn't be hosting matches. Find someone competent to lead.
 
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The other thing is things like stage times and Prize table orders should all be posted BEFORE people sign up for the match. If there is going to be gimmicky shit, then let people know. People have a right to know what they are getting into before they sign up and spend thousands of dollars to travel to a match.
 
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I'm having to read between a bunch of lines here, but my best understanding is that they treated the ROs as their own class. So table walk went something like 1st Hunter, 1st, Heavy, 1st RO. 2nd Hunter, 2nd Heavy, 2nd RO.... etc. Which is an absolutely WILD way to do it.

I don't think anyone is actually saying the RO's shouldn't walk the table (if they shoot the same COF), it should just be in their order of placement like every other match I've ever been to.
You got it.

1st heavy, light, team, lady, youth, ro, mil/leo, etc more or less.
2nd <repeat above>
And so on.

So, ultimately, for example, the 40th team (basically last place) would walk same time (roughly) as 40th overall.
 
They released points. I think everyone got shorted it is what it is unfortunately I know there is like 10 points missing from my score but still had fun.
 
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You got it.

1st heavy, light, team, lady, youth, ro, mil/leo, etc more or less.
2nd <repeat above>
And so on.

So, ultimately, for example, the 40th team (basically last place) would walk same time (roughly) as 40th overall.
Except for the part where he got mixed up because different classes had different numbers of trophies to present. So then the order backtracked slightly and repeated the Ladies/Juniors for two placings in a row because they got skipped over in the order while calling the extra trophies for other classes. Followed by then losing track of which names had already been called and which names were next up in the other classes.

In open heavy a top-10 guy never had his named called at all due to this mix up. Afterwards he talked to the MD and saw his name was indeed in the top ten on the tablet scores were being read off from, it just never got called because it was accidentally skipped in the confusion.

They released points. I think everyone got shorted it is what it is unfortunately I know there is like 10 points missing from my score but still had fun.
They removed stages 11 and 17 from the cumulative scores in this latest update. That's the reason they look very different from the scorecards for some people and why the placings are WILDLY off from what was called out the day of.

Unfortunate for folks like myself that scored 14+ points on those two stages alone. I'm assuming they must have been missing scores from a large quantity of shooters on those stages and if only half the shooters have a submitted score for the stage it's not any more fair to count those stages towards the cumulative total either.
 
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They released points. I think everyone got shorted it is what it is unfortunately I know there is like 10 points missing from my score but still had fun.
Stage 11 and 17 are missing. I’m asking the MD what the problem is but it seems to be a backend practiscore error.

The scores synced to the tablet during awards so that was correct but not entirely sure where the glitch is. practiscore themselves are currently working on recovering data to update those 2 stages so it pushes correctly to the website
 
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At this point I think they should just let it be. They already let people walk the table and gave prizes out I believe it will only make it worse showing the mistakes because I'm sure the ones who got cheated will throw a bigger fit haha things happen it sucks and frustrating I get it but this year was a off year for sure for the match. It's the second time I shot it and only the second match I've been to really so only have last year to base it off of.
 
At this point I think they should just let it be. They already let people walk the table and gave prizes out I believe it will only make it worse showing the mistakes because I'm sure the ones who got cheated will throw a bigger fit haha things happen it sucks and frustrating I get it but this year was a off year for sure for the match. It's the second time I shot it and only the second match I've been to really so only have last year to base it off of.

Yeah, no. I need the real scores posted so I know how bad I beat Litz every year since I started using weaponized math.
 
Yeah, no. I need the real scores posted so I know how bad I beat Litz every year since I started using weaponized math.
Wow you must be one smooth brained person if you’re out there doing weaponized math. I am sensitive to the EMF put out by gps devices like what Litz built his kestrel radiation device on, so I do it the old fashioned way with my mildot master. The dots don’t lie, bud. I could split a playing card at 1,000 meters, all day, any day, pal.
 
I don’t have dog in the pony show, but regarding the teams at NF ELR I don’t think I it’s appropriate that they get to speak to each other. They should just awkwardly lay next to each other in silence and give each other nods if things are jiving. Everyone knows that teams isn’t fair.
 
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