- Thread starter FjallJager
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The March 10-60 is a SFP scope that is designed for, and excels in, F-Class style shooting. The High Master glass is very nice indeed and gives the pop factor we gave, but makes shooting is heavy mirage a lot easier than other brands.
I have my two NXS 22x that I used to love, and want to love, because I don't want to sell two to buy one new scope. Lowlight's explanation on page 1 helps me understand the lens challenge I had trying to find a deer that was "popping" in the Leica binos that are filtered differently.
I have my two NXS 22x that I used to love, and want to love, because I don't want to sell two to buy one new scope. Lowlight's explanation on page 1 helps me understand the lens challenge I had trying to find a deer that was "popping" in the Leica binos that are filtered differently.
Never even seen one.
I had a March FX 5-40x56. In a side by side comparison with S&B and Premier 5-25's, and all three set at 25x, the March was on top. However, at that level of glass with those three scopes, your just splitting hairs.
They all have gone up $500 since last year. There were sub $3000 Nightforce, kahles and others. But i think those days are over. At least for 34mm alpha
I like Leupold and Schmidt and Bender.
Athlon as well and I have no complaints (Argos, Ares and Cronus)
I haven’t had my daily fill of drama yet. Care to elaborate?
Regret not getting a ZP5 for $2100 when they were around.. OOF
I own Nightforce Swarovski, Vortex, Leupold, Schmidt & Bender, Nikon, Red Field and Nikon. Of the above named, I always purchase the best of the brand. Until recently I was content with both the Nightforce and Vortex. I liked my Swarovski and Schmidt & Bender just fine. The FFP scopes are best for long range and target shooting. But There is no comparison between any of the others and Kahles! End of story... that said the Kahles is almost double the price in most cases except my Nightforce and it is still $1400.00 more money. Is it worth $1400.00 more? No, unless you are shooting long range competition... buy a Nightforce or Vortex
I’ve never owned either Kahles or Nightforce so I can’t speak to them however the Leupold MkV HD 7x35x56, now that’s a great scope and of course the old school mkIV ultra with lazer etched mil dot reticle is bad ass!
Wow what a debate ! not that I'm surprised, as a Brit I have to say Nightforce would be my last choice the reason, price in the UK. The top end models are from 3 grand to just over 4 grand a discounted S&B is in the region of 2.2 grand, so all mine are all S&B's. I worked for a UK rifle builder and have used just about every top end scope there is, there isn't a great deal of difference between them optically. So it is down to personnel choice, which does your eyesight perceive to be better. To be honest I prefer the Vortex gen 2 Razor to my S&B's optically but tracking wise and reliability ? by the way Razors and S&B's are the same price in the UK. Maybe now we have left the evil EU empire prices may change.
I've owned many you listed as well as others, but I find the contrast much better in my NF than the others.
Definitely wasn't impressed with the Kahles after buying it...
Pics of the smoking hot wife or this thread is dead to me!
I'd love to help you out, but it isn't my wife (not that I would post photos of my wife) and I don't have any photos of her. Her sister was a figure competitor in New Zealand, but she went back in the military and had to take all her slutty photos down.
If you google Christine McQeen the infamous Australian escort, they are VERY similar looking. Enough that it caused problems for her travelling.
If you are retired Navy, ask NF for their military price list.
May help with the decision.
Crosswinds Precision Marksmanship Academy in Colorado recommends the Athlon among others for their long range classes.
She was on TV all the time when I lived in Australia. Celebrity whore of the year or something. She tried to sue one of her johns for alimony, even though they were never married and she never lived with him. He paid for it for several years and she decided she was entitled.
I saw her on a Ricky Lake type Australian show with her kids, and the son was talking about killing himself because all his school mates knew his mom was a whore.
She looks amazing with makeup and slut clothes. But she looks like she was shaken out of a trailer park in Apalachia when she isn't so made up.
I purchased a used Kahles Gen 1 624i a while back off Ebay . There is nothing wrong with the scope but I just wanted to be proactive in the event something was to go wrong shit happens. I asked Kahles the process for a scope to be repaired. Kahles wanted to know who I had purchased it from, and if they register it? They would have to contact the previous owner by serial number or the last one to register it not saying how long it would be if they could not contact them bla bla bla Then once that was verified to their liking. It would take an additional two or three months to get it back. "Geez" Knowing that now, I NEVER would have purchased it.
Leland T
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I purchased a used Kahles Gen 1 624i a while back off Ebay . There is nothing wrong with the scope but I just wanted to be proactive in the event something was to go wrong shit happens. I asked Kahles the process for a scope to be repaired. Kahles wanted to know who I had purchased it from, and if they register it? They would have to contact the previous owner by serial number or the last one to register it not saying how long it would be if they could not contact them bla bla bla Then once that was verified to their liking. It would take an additional two or three months to get it back. "Geez" Knowing that now, I NEVER would have purchased it.
I have used both and own neither. That said the Kahles is nice overall but not superior to the Nightforce if we are talking about the Atacr. We can argue about features and turrets but as far as glass quality the NF Atacr is in my opinion the best. We recently had the chance to test and use the NF and Kahles at ranges out to a mile against the two scopes I presently own in that class the Mark 5 and Athlon Cronus. In full disclosure I have always favored Leupold and own several including the above mentioned Mark 5 and a Mark 4. That said I have owned several German scopes in the past. They are nice! However, getting the opportunity to look thru and shoot the above mentioned four the NF had the best glass clarity followed by the Athlon if there was any discernable difference, both are Japanese made optics possible made by the same OEM. The Leupold was a very close third and appeared to be brighter but not as clear. With the NF and Cronus gen 2 you could litterally see the veins running in leaves at distance behind targets. The Kahles was fourth. My draw back to the NF is I don't like the reticle. I prefer the Leupold or a standard mil dot. Don't get me wrong you cannot I believe go wrong with any of these choices. They are all excellent optics, which should be the case with those costing 2k+. Pick one and go with it. If pure clarity is the scale to go by buy the NF. It is the best IMHO.
You said: “even though the the Kahles is optically superior to the Nightforce.” First off, they are both SOLID optics for the money - please do some more research and speak with those who actually used these optics, for an even more robust perspective if possible.
Now as for which one to get, for my money, I’d go with a Schmidt & Bender as my first choice, and a Leupold Gold Ring as my second, over either of the optics you spoke on. I’m speaking strictly here on glass quality at high magnifications (where one truly can appreciate the quality most easily).
Best of success in your research and purchase!
~Scot
USMC 0326/8541
You should check the pricing for the Schmidt & Bender PMII 5x25x56 USMC - it’s going for around $800.00 (USD) than the similar Kahles these days (H37 Illum. reticle).
Source: europotics.com
...stay safe,
~Scot
USMC 0326/8541
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@FjallJager
Special Projects my guy
Special Projects my guy
I spent the day running around town looking at scopes. Sportsmans Warehouse had a Leupold Mark 5 5-25, and a $950 Riton, and a couple of ATACRs.
Riton sucked by comparison, but I am sure it would have been ok if a guy wasn't looking at the $3000 range rifle scopes.
My gunsmith had both an ATACR, a Mark 5 and a Schmidt. The only thing I didn't like about the Schmidt was the tunnelling at 5 power, he said his was an older model and the current Schmidts didn't do that.
I also found two cans of powder, so it was a good day.
Riton sucked by comparison, but I am sure it would have been ok if a guy wasn't looking at the $3000 range rifle scopes.
My gunsmith had both an ATACR, a Mark 5 and a Schmidt. The only thing I didn't like about the Schmidt was the tunnelling at 5 power, he said his was an older model and the current Schmidts didn't do that.
I also found two cans of powder, so it was a good day.
Just to be clear, all Schmidt PMII 5-25’s tunnel old and new, they have not changed the design that I am aware, but the 3-20 and 3-27, and other newer Schmidt designs do not suffer from the tunneling effect the 5-25 does.
Copy thank you!
They’ve moved, had different ownership and generally struggled the past few years, but they are still on the earth
They haven't been relevant for 15 years.They’ve moved, had different ownership and generally struggled the past few years, but they are still on the earth
Same here
I agree, i've done business with a couple you've mentioned and have nothing but good to say about them. Having a business of my own, even though small in comparison with these guys, i know how important CS is. Nothing worse or better than word of mouth advertisement
You just can't go wrong with the Nightforce.
Testing shows they rate >10 on the mohs hardness scale, absolute tanks.
Yea unless you get a defective one and you have to spend a year fighting Nightforce and finally have to sue them to make it right...........
Ask Idaho about it ( which he probably won't due to a probable NDA)
Rifle Scopes - Issue with NightForce nx8
I would imagine they do. Imagining and knowing are two different things.
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The point is nightforce is not some God Status optic company.
They make shit like everyone else in the same price range.
However there have been more than a few reports of them not providing customer service and blaming everything on mounting when its clear the optic is defective.
Never had that issue with companies like Vortex, Bushnell or S&B when i had issues. They either fixed or replaced them at no cost and quick turn around.
They make shit like everyone else in the same price range.
However there have been more than a few reports of them not providing customer service and blaming everything on mounting when its clear the optic is defective.
Never had that issue with companies like Vortex, Bushnell or S&B when i had issues. They either fixed or replaced them at no cost and quick turn around.
Being a relative poor (2 Cabelas deal MK5's, 2 SHV's and a Gen2 Razor from SH classifieds) the only consensus I get from these optics threads is there never appears to be a consensus....well that plus I want an ATACR real bad.
I enjoy the hell outta reading them though....
I enjoy the hell outta reading them though....
I helped a buddy of mine put together his bolt action set up. He has went with the NF ATACRF1. I have the Vortex Razor HD Genii. I dont have any experience with the Kahles. At the range looking through both scopes the NF was literally a hair better in that the glass handled resolution just every so slightly better on a hot summer day. They are so damn close. If I did have a cool 3k laying around to blow on a scope I would def buy a NF
