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Rifle Scopes Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

BigJimFish

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Minuteman
Jul 24, 2011
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Columbus, OH
They ought to give you a pin or something for surviving all four days of Shot show. I woke up this morning and I really wasn’t sure if I would be able to walk. Everything from the knees down was just dreadful. I had to give in and take some Advil: Quite the improvement. They really should hand the stuff out at mile 12 of Shot along with the pin. So, I hereby admit to using performance-enhancing substances to produce such good articles, and it took me 14 years less than Lance to do so.

So, the first booth that I went to this year was Nightforce. I did this partly because I was excited to see the new product, and partly because I felt a little bad for giving them exactly no ink last year. First, lets talk about the 5-25x56 mm ffp Beast. The first line in the Beast brochure is: “Once in a great while, a product comes along that changes our attitudes, our perceptions, the very way we do things.” This kind of makes it sound like the Beast is as big as the Internet, the airplane, steam power, or perhaps birth control. It’s not that big. It’s great innovative feature, the throw lever, is basically the same thing Unertl had 30 years ago. Honestly, ‘innovative’ is not what I would call the Beast.

However, I would call the Beast well thought out and generally well executed. I also expect that it will continue the Nightforce tradition of being exceedingly rugged and dependable; two things that innovative products are not really known for.

Beast profile with size comparison to GRSC 1-6x:
nfbeastprofileleft.jpg

nfbeastprofileright.jpg

nfbeastcontrols.jpg


Now for the features: Take a look at the photos to guide you. The button on top of the elevation turret that they call a “brake control” (and explain in hieroglyphics translated twice into Icelandic and then to English) is a turret lock plain and simple. Up, and the turret will rotate; down, it will not. To activate this lock, one must push down and turn the button. This is hard to do with the fingertips and should be performed with the palm of the right hand. I still found it a little awkward, but I expect one gets the hang of it. Better explained in the press release than the break control is the throw lever. I hear they skipped the Icelandic translation on this one. This little lever can be flipped to add .1mil to whatever you have just dialed at .2 mil increments. Alternately, you can leave it thrown and dial odd numbers of mils instead of even. Either way, this .2 mil click increment +.1 lever solves the problem of making the clicks far enough spaced to have a 20 mil+ (60 MOA actually) single turn without the clicks being hopelessly on top of one another and difficult to count individually or stop on the right one. It works quite well. I’m sure you guessed that the elevation turret has a zero stop, but I will put your mind at ease and confirm this. I will also mention that for MOA users this turret can be had with ½” clicks +1/4”.

The windage knob also has a lock on it. This is the red button on the side. This locks the windage at zero and must be pressed to move the windage from that point. However, on the scopes at the show, that damn button is so short and hard that if you can move it with your naturally positioned index finger, you are a stronger man than I. Nightforce was quick to assure me that this will not be a problem in the final version and is being addressed. The Beast is still a bit of a prototype. Windage clicks are .1 mil or 1/4 MOA and go 6 mils each way to a stop.

As for the illumination control, it is a single button, which, like all other single button controls makes it complicated because you have to know Morse code. The code for this one is that you click through the brightness settings with the reticle flashing at the top and bottom to indicate position. To turn off you hold for one second. To switch to Night vision mode you hold for 8 seconds. This illumination control is found on the side of the side focus parallax know which ranges from 50 yards (boo) out. Power change and diopter utilize the same layout all Nightforce users will be quite familiar with.

Now for my thoughts on this scope after handling it for a bit. First off, it looks great. In the past I have found most Nightforce glass to be rather uninspiring, but this glass looks good. I bugged them for a while on the source of the glass and heard several different stories. I heard that it was Japanese ED glass; I heard that it had Japanese, German, and American glass; and I also heard that all pieces were made from Kryptonite polished by elves. Maybe that is why I couldn’t get that little red button to push. I really don’t know what the glass is, but it looks very good. For those interested in extraneous details (and if you are reading this, you are), the Beast marks another milestone in Nightforce’s transition from a primarily foreign to a wholly American brand. It is assembled here and was designed using American and German engineers. I think that they did a rather good job of it, myself. Though I’m not sure it merits the Nobel Prize in physics. The Beast strikes me as very well thought out and executed. I think it will perform well for the long-range shooting crowd. I was told that the retail will be $3,400 and the availability date for civilians is not yet determined.

The Beast at 5x:
nfbeast5xilluminated.jpg

The Beast at 25x:
nfbeast25x.jpg


That was a lot of writing: now for something completely different. The 5-25x56 mm Atacr is basically an NXS that has 34 mm tube and better ED glass. The optics looked good to me even in the crappy light of the ballroom. I would have liked ffp, but what are you going to do. Price is $2,400.

nfatacrprofile.jpg


The Atacr at 5x:
nfatacr5x.jpg


Lastly, we have the new Nightforce 15-55x52 mm Competition model. This is for the F-class and bench rest folks. It is lighter than the comparable NF offerings before it, is higher power, has better (now ED) glass, and is side focus. They will sell many of these at $2,300. The plan is to make a series of these and I think that you can kiss off the old bench rest line in the future.

nfcompetitionprofileright.jpg

 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Nice work, man. I'll check out these scopes tomorrow. I have a feeling either people are gonna love this new "Beast" or loathe it. Unfortunately, the lighting/line of sight conditions in the ballrooms of the show do not do ANY optics justice, but if they look good to you in there, they should be fine out of doors.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I cant wait to get that beast.

Rich
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Good job. Keep on. Thanks for the info.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish


Excellent write up!

Understandably evaluating optics inside a convention hall is approaching absurdity, but what was your first impression of the "eye box" ?
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

The scopes are a big step up in optics over the old NXS. There is very little of the scopes tube visible, the eyebox is very decent.

When comparing the ATACR to the "standard" 5.5-22x56, for a guy like me, the ATACR's image quality upgrade is quite noticeable. It is worth the upcharge, IMHO. I think it will hurt sales of the "standard" NXS and so now is the time to sell your old ones before the word gets out, lol.

The "BEAST" has a manual of arms to learn, but it does represent forward thinking by Nightforce. I have a few nitpicks/concerns but I'm sure the scope will do well.

The illumination button is one touch/multi-function. NICE but it is a BIG soft touch button and I wonder about Murphy raising his head and damaging the thing.

The +0.1 mil lever does NOT rotate the elevation knob when flicked, the +0.1 mil is dialed in "invisibly", so you have no mechanical verification of elevation uptravel, other than shooting to verify. Which, at 3.6" at 1000 yards, many would never know the difference (egos aside).

The "brake control".....I happened to turn the knob with the brake "on"...the most awesome feeling 20mil knobs in history, until it was pointed out I just turned the knob when I should not have been able too....once released, the knob was a bit too light feeling...bottom line, the BEAST is not yet fully baked, IMO. Glass-wise, sight picture, definitely good to go.

Scott
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Looking forward to picking up some "old" NSX scopes for cheap.
laugh.gif
Hunting rifles could use something that I can bang around.
laugh.gif
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I think the inability to visually or mechanically verify the DOPE I had dialed into a firing solution would drive me a little crazy. Especially if I'm paying $3k for an optic. That sounds like kind of a big problem to me...

-SBS
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The +0.1 mil lever does NOT rotate the elevation knob when flicked, the +0.1 mil is dialed in "invisibly", so you have no mechanical verification of elevation uptravel, other than shooting to verify. Which, at 3.6" at 1000 yards, many would never know the difference (egos aside).</div></div>

Scott it Shows and says .1 you know what it is added in ?
I am not sure I understand this quote?

It's "odd" / "even" ... you get all your even numbers on the turret and this make it "1 up" odd, it can only be that with it added as it does not subtract 1, it only adds it.

The turret is marked .1 so its not invisible... if you have 2.2 showing the turret and .1 is on, it is 2.3...it cannot be anything else.

nfbeastcontrols.jpg


as the lever is thrown, it shows "UP" and .1 ...
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Frank,

I see the marking on the lever, yes. I understand the principle.

Let me rephrase. When the lever is moved for +0.1 mil, the TURRET did not move. What I had envisioned was you rotate your knob to the "even" mark/hash on the turret, flick the lever and you see the knob move one "half" detent between the two 0.2 mil hashes. It's the lever that indicates, but the big elevation knob does not move.

Does that explain it better?
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I pictured the lever as a fine tune "ratchet". I was watching the knob when I moved the lever, it stayed still. Wasn't expecting that, is all.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Jim, very good review. I especially like all the thought and effort you put into it, not just cold boring data. This was enjoyable to read, great job!
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Disssapointed, I was really hoping they would add a 22x FFP option to go with the F1.

Instead they're main addition is something to challenge the upper tier of optics? Seems like NF is a little late to that party.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately, the lighting/line of sight conditions in the ballrooms of the show do not do ANY optics justice</div></div>

This is a really important factor to consider and I think that it warrants greater clarification. The booths at Shot are located in two large exhibition halls, one directly above the other, a large upstairs ballroom, and six small halls. The upstairs exhibition hall is brightly lit with white light. The downstairs hall is somewhat less lit but still reasonably neutral, though somehow it feels a little yellower and I'm not sure why. The 6 small halls as well as the ballroom are lit least of all and with an odd pink, orange, yellow spectrum that is genuinely terrible for assessing optics. Nightforce, USO, one of the Vortex booths, IOR, and Premier are all in the ballroom or the small halls with bad lighting. S&B, Zeiss, Henny, Swarovski, Leupold, Bushnell, Trijicon, Nikon, Burris, and Kahless are all upstairs in the large exhibition hall with the best light. Leica, March(Kelbly), and Meopta are downstairs in the exhibition hall with ok light. It's not exactly fair, is it?

This great disparity in lighting at Shot adds difficulty to the already problematic task of assessing optics that are not side by side and that you are not trying in a variety of lighting conditions. We are also looking at these optics in a variety of mounted and unmounted conditions. They are sometimes on rifles, sometimes plastic rifles, occasionally tripods, and often loose. Obviously, a loose optic always feels like it has a smaller eye box than a mounted one. Furthermore, each booth is not equally busy or equally equipped with a decent place to sit your crap down and spend some quality time with the scope. I bring along a reference scope to compare to all the others, but there is really only so much that can be done and at the end of the day what you get in a Shot report is my honest impression. I could be, and no doubt am, often just wrong.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Great write up BigJim but I'm a bit disappointed that you resorted to using PEDs.....
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Costa and I spent a good amount of time over looking the Beast. I was excited to get fo NF booth and check it out but left a little underwhelmed ;( I still don't like the fact that the entire eye piece rotates, the illumination soft pad looks like recipe for disaster if a sharp object hits if. The amount of elevation is greats per turn but throwing the lever to add 0.1mil or .25 moa is an extra step I really don't like that I have to do. My PMII gives me 35 MOA per turn in 1/4 moa increments, so dial and shoot. I dont have fo switch a lever for fhe fine tunjng.

The zero stop operation is still not improved. The NSX came out more thN a decade ago. I really hoped they improved the zero stop mechanism so it is less complicated. It is still the clutch type mechanism as before. Don't get me wrong the scope looks solid and am sure will perform awesome but after working on this for so long after everybody else has bad a 34mm scope I was really hoping they come out with something to knock me off my feet.


The guy I spoke to said it is US glass. I think $3400 price is steep. At the end of the day if you are trying to be a top tier scope you are gonna be compared against S&B PMII 5-25x. I have purchased two PMIIs new from dealers for $3400 shipped. There is nothing the Beast offers at this price that would make me choose it over a PMII. I personally feel this scope should be a $2500-2700 scope which would be a couple notches above the Razor.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I did like the +0.1 mil lever concept and the dual color illumination, but they aren't things that I would pay extra to get.

I really didn't like the brake controls on the beast. That the NF sales people were sometimes struggling to operate the one on the elevation and that by Thursday both the elevation and windage brakes were broken on every beast in the NF booth and all of the ones in the AI booth left me unimpressed. I noticed when I played with it on Tuesday that there was a lot of grinding in the windage turret if you turned it and the button wasn't pressed in all the way in. So, I can't say I was surprised by this. The brake controls need some re-design IMO.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Seems very nice, but at that price point I think I'll stay with SB. I am a huge nightforce fan and still own one for F-class, but as everything else the SB is proven. I'm glad to see we now have a top tier US made optic. Lets give it a year and check out the reviews. I think they missed the mark by around $500
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: avidflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seems very nice, but at that price point I think I'll stay with SB. I am a huge nightforce fan and still own one for F-class, but as everything else the SB is proven. I'm glad to see we now have a top tier US made optic. Lets give it a year and check out the reviews. I think they missed the mark by around $500</div></div>

This is my honest opinion of this being a S&B fan, I mean I own about 15 of them, they are proven, but they have also proven lately they have an problem.

I bought 12 S&B scopes, used them religiously with only 1 issue out of those 12, then in 2012, I got a new 5-25x and new 3-20x, both had to go back for repair out of the box. Ruined a day of shooting video for the DVD because of the scopes.

Tracking and Turret issues, parallax, and I am not the only one experiencing thi either.

Management changes, QC issues, pricing going through the roof... (My 1st 5-25x cost me $2350 new) and this is continuing.

I was really disappointed in the offerings at SHOT, not just from a pricing standpoint, $5,500 for 2x more magnification, but from a look and function one. Terrible eye box, really long designs, they seem to be going backward.

S&B is proven, proven they are having issues, 1-8x 3 years delayed, the list goes on.

Sure I would buy a used one, long before I invest another dime in a new S&B. Don't plan on selling any off, but I don't plan on moving forward with them until some real changes come into play.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Great review, but left me disappointed. For that price of the Beast there are many better options out there. I would think the R&D guys could have done much better! Do they pay any attention to what most shooters are actually asking for?
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I dont know, IMO I Would just get the ATACR. $1,000 cheaper. The only upside to the beast I car about is the 60 MOA per turn. My Current NSX I have a 40 MOA base and zero my winmag at 300 Yards. 1 rev gets me well past 1,000 yards.

For my Edge I think I'll get the ATACR. Better glass than the Older NSX with a bigger tube and more elevation. For the Money of the Beast I would just go US Optics.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Was hoping they would lose the whole occular rotating for zoom adjustments

The 0.1MIL throw lever adjustment is ....
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I have to admit, I was disappointed seeing The Beast at SHOT. It's too complicated and the price point puts it in competition with some very established good glass makers.

I love my NXS and plan on keeping it.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I think the .1 mil lever is interesting. The only thing I can see getting caught up is that it only adds .1 mil up in elevation, not +\-.

So when dialing down, whether the lever is switched and an even amount is needed, or not switched and an odd amount... You must dial an adjustment past what you're looking for.

Ie. If dialing 3.7 mils down, one would have to turn 3.8, then operate lever or leave in place if already moved. So from 15, one would have to 11.2. However, needing 3.7 up would only require 3.6 (or moving to 18.6).

I guess it would be fairly simple to remember but might take some getting used to for it to feel second nature. It looks like the beginning to something that could be developed further over time. I haven't a clue how it actually interfaces with the turret but if just as reliable as conventional adjustments, it seems like an opened door to new possibilities... a separate device that can adjust through its scale. There would be significant less wear if one turret dialed in full mil/moa and only had to use .2 .1 and .05 on one level.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I'd like to chime in a little here.
1- The decision to go with the designs presented(FFP/SFP, .1 lever, brake, etc) are very, very difficult for a business to make; some fail after enacting the wrong one, or even the right one at the wrong time. I am sure NF struggled mightily with it, and the fly on the wall likely saw some heated discussion over all of it.
2- It appears this product was designed not for you the civilian, but with primarily military applications. You (and I) were an afterthought, as in "oh, yeah, and we can market it to civilian/police..." I'd like to see reviews a year from now, presented by the users it was designed for.
3- The price is normal for a high end product made in USA. Get over it. You can't bitch about the price, and in your next conversation complain about work and business being outsourced overseas/south of the border.
4- If this product does not work perfectly even for the intended market, it will at least provide a segue to the next gen scope that will use this type mechanism, but far better. Orville and WIlbur did not fly a B777, but it was a good start- one thing I know is that next year's lot of lower priced scopes will likely have at least a few with some sort of copy cat lever, because people love to have "the same mechanism as the new NF but cheaper".
I am sure you guys will correct me, the new guy, so let it fly-
Huey
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hueyguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to chime in a little here.
1- The decision to go with the designs presented(FFP/SFP, .1 lever, brake, etc) are very, very difficult for a business to make; some fail after enacting the wrong one, or even the right one at the wrong time. I am sure NF struggled mightily with it, and the fly on the wall likely saw some heated discussion over all of it.
2- It appears this product was designed not for you the civilian, but with primarily military applications. You (and I) were an afterthought, as in "oh, yeah, and we can market it to civilian/police..." I'd like to see reviews a year from now, presented by the users it was designed for.
3- The price is normal for a high end product made in USA. Get over it. You can't bitch about the price, and in your next conversation complain about work and business being outsourced overseas/south of the border.
4- If this product does not work perfectly even for the intended market, it will at least provide a segue to the next gen scope that will use this type mechanism, but far better. Orville and WIlbur did not fly a B777, but it was a good start- one thing I know is that next year's lot of lower priced scopes will likely have at least a few with some sort of copy cat lever, because people love to have "the same mechanism as the new NF but cheaper".
I am sure you guys will correct me, the new guy, so let it fly-
Huey </div></div>

Explain to me how people are going to "have the same mechanism as the new NF but cheaper" when they patented it.....and have the money to back up the patent.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

I can make one the same, but change it enough so that the patent is not violated. Ever seen the Japanese attack a new product? It won't be long, and some may even pay NF for the right to use their mechanism, but produce it with cheaper parts and labor. Many ways, only limited by imagination.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Explain to me how people are going to "have the same mechanism as the new NF but cheaper" when they patented it.....and have the money to back up the patent.</div></div>

They may have patented the mechanism on this one but given that Unertl did the lever concept back in the day I think it's safe to say that the concept of a fine adjust lever is quite open.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Thanks BigJimFish I appreciate the coverage as I have been waiting to learn more about the ATACR
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

Who is going cheaper?

Prices are going up not down, nobody in this space is going for less?

S&B went $2k more for 2x extra. Nothing of quality or that is "proven" as been batted around is going for less.

Originally the Beast was like the Unertl, it had adjustments up and down.
 
Re: Nightforce Beast Atacr and Competition BigJimFish

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hueyguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2- It appears this product was designed not for you the civilian, but with primarily military applications. You (and I) were an afterthought,
Huey </div></div>
I think you hit it on the head here