Rifle Scopes Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

[BigBrother]

Sigh. My optics saga continues.

I just got a new Monarch X 2.5-10x44. I really thought this would be the one. The clicks were very positive, bright optics, etc.

Well, just took it out for the first time. It zeroed just fine @100, but when I did a box test, something odd came up- a perfect 6" box, on only a 5 MOA test. I did it again in the other direction, double checking my dialing. 6" box.

Measured the distance to the target- 100y on the dot. Grabbed a fresh sheet of paper, made extra sure to be dialing 5 MOA. Fired 3 shots for center, then dialed left 5 MOA, then 3 shots. I now had two 3 shot groups, each at under an MOA, almost exactly 6" from each other.

WTF. It's tracking correctly, but it's as though it's not 1/4 MOA clicks, but some other number. And yes, I checked the manual, called customer support, etc.- these are supposed to be 1/4 MOA!

 

[Hoploman]

Re: Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

First thing I say when people do the box test and get a consistent box, but the wrong size is: Are you sure the range is correct? You said it's spot-on 100 yards.

Keep in mind that 1moa = 1.047" ..as a result, people measuring in inches at 100 yards always see a slightly larger box because they are measuring in inches instead of MOA.


However, 1.047 x 5 = 5.235" at 100 yards, about 5 and 1/4" ...still, your box is too large by 3/4". Be sure to measure from the true center of the groups.

If you did all that and it's not right, scope's not tracking according to 0.25moa, might be more like 0.27moa clicks...

That's kind of a bummer, because this error becomes progressively worse as you dial more. If it's at least consistent, up and down and over the course of many adjustments, you can work around that by simply adjusting your data card to compensate. But that's really not ideal and kind of crappy.

 

[BigBrother]

Re: Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hoploman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First thing I say when people do the box test and get a consistent box, but the wrong size is: Are you sure the range is correct? You said it's spot-on 100 yards.

Keep in mind that 1moa = 1.047" ..as a result, people measuring in inches at 100 yards always see a slightly larger box because they are measuring in inches instead of MOA.


However, 1.047 x 5 = 5.235" at 100 yards, about 5 and 1/4" ...still, your box is too large by 3/4". Be sure to measure from the true center of the groups.

If you did all that and it's not right, scope's not tracking according to 0.25moa, might be more like 0.27moa clicks...

That's kind of a bummer, because this error becomes progressively worse as you dial more. If it's at least consistent, up and down and over the course of many adjustments, you can work around that by simply adjusting your data card to compensate. But that's really not ideal and kind of crappy.


</div></div>

You spoke *exactly* as I had thought, with considerations, calculations, and conclusions. It sucks ass, I'm not going to lie

.

I just brought in the targets for some more accurate re-measurement. Most of the distances are 5.75", with one or two at over 6". I'm going to take out a Leupold tomorrow and see what it yields in the same test. By my calculations, for 5 MOA to be 5.75", it's got to be 110 yards. I suppose that's possible. Tomorrow's test shall tell.

 

[Witch_Doctor]

Re: Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

I have Nikon 4-16 x 50, shot it for the first time this past Sunday. Very similar result, zeroed quickly within 3 shots, but my boxes were between 5.5" and 5.75". My Father then shot two, both were in the same range, then my dad did some return to zero drils, no problem. My father actually suprised me, while I was scratching my head, dad went to the car and pulled out a surveyor's tape. Measured the bench to target stand, suprise, the clubs 100 yd range was actually 326 feet. There you go, age and experiance, thats why they are dad's

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

BigBrother,

I don't know if you did everything right, or everything wrong. But if you counted 20 clicks, and your POI moved 6", then your scope is adjusting exactly 0.30" per click @ 100 yds. But if it is "consistently" moving exactly 0.30" per click, then you have a good scope.

While researching your problem, I came across on old test of a Nikon Tactical 4-16x44mm in Sniper County. Below is a quote by that tester, Dave Bahde:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"The first time someone told me that their scope adjustments were wrong, because they did not measure "precisely .25MOA I about fell over". My response was "who cares, so long as you know where to put the knob, and it hits in the same spot every time, well "there ya go!". What is most important to me is that it is repeatable, meaning it does the same thing every time. Whether that "thing" is .25 MOA or .2513365 MOA is meaningless to me, as long as you know your gun."</span></span>

Well there ya go,

Bob

 

[Rookie]

Re: Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

Do a 12 inch test. See if the error compounds. If so, I would call Nikon, but good luck with that cause their reputation for customer service sucks.

 

[drmarc]

Re: Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

Just splitting hairs here but unless you were to have a rifle rigidly strapped to a benchrest for exact repeatability, a 1/4 MOA capable rifle and ammunition loaded for the 1/4 MOA rifle specifically how could you honestly judge a true scope box test when firing for effect? Not trying to be flippant here just curious what kind of margin of error would be in an acceptable range?

 

[BigBrother]

Re: Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

Well, just took out the Leupold. Almost always 5.5". So the range is definitely a bit more than 100, but the Nikon is also definitely dialing more than the Leupold. Interesting.

 

[Hoploman]

Re: Nikon owners- what could cause this problem???

FWIW, I have a Nikon Monarch that tracks perfectly. Did the box test at the range (100 yards) and it worked out to 5.25" and nice and square. At first I was like "box is perfect, but a little big in all directions" ...after a moment, remembered MOA, not inches!

Keeping the rifle level makes a difference too.


Now, the difference with the Leupold makes me wonder. Was the target for the Leupold at the same exact distance as the target for the Nikon? Seems to me that what you're experiencing is probably a combination of shooting at slightly over 100 yards and some small tracking error.


Let us know what you find out.