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No.4 Mk.1 1943

camocorvette

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Minuteman
  • Apr 1, 2010
    2,185
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    Minnesota
    Just got this. Wanted to make a No4T clone. It's so nice I think I'm going to just oil it and shoot it.
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    The stock is tight were it needs to be. Has the right pressure on the barrel. The 2 groove rifling looks very strong. Everything is numbers matching minus the front barrel band.
    I'm very excited to shoot it. Never seen a no4 with this parker hale peep sight. It has 5 selectable apertures.
     
    I've got one of those peep sights in a box somewhere. I'll have to see if I can fit it to my Lee Enfield No.9 rifle (looks externally like a No.4 but is a single shot in .22LR).
     
    I've got one of those peep sights in a box somewhere. I'll have to see if I can fit it to my Lee Enfield No.9 rifle (looks externally like a No.4 but is a single shot in .22LR).
    The previous owner definitely tapped and modified the existing sight. There is some clearance taken off the bottom of the sight when flipped up. Hopefully my windage is on, because I don't think I can move it. They filed the bottom so much part of the screw is showing.
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    Well, to me. I think the rifle is gorgeous.
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    Accuracy... let me tell ya..

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    First 6 rounds of Wolf gold 174. It may tighten up after I get better at shooting the rifle and handloads. Going from Bix/Andy TacPro and Anschutz 5098 triggers to a 6 pound long trigger...

    5 more rounds.
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    Lot of up and down stringing. Windage isn't too bad. I'm gonna re read the british manuals on maintenance and accurization. Go through all that and shoot some more.

    I also shot Mk7 that was all hang fires and hitting the primer twice to go off. Accuracy of that is tbd, Hang fires are great training for flinchies though..
     
    This is the breach area of the No.9 rifle. You can see the similar rear sights (calibrated for .22LR) and the .22LR chamber.

    The rifles were converted from No.4 rifles by sleeving the barrel with a .22LR liner and modifying the bolt head with an offset firing pin.

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    Action markings:

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    That's awesome. I've seen just a few of those and it looks like it would be fun to have.
     
    Camocorvette, your sight is from an L81 cadet rifle. The rear sight mounting "ears" have been modified to accept it.
     
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    @340mech thank your for that information. I would have never known without someone telling me.

    @MikeinTexas Thats for sure. They may not be tack drivers, I had concerns with the 2 groove. But I sure still enjoy preserving a bit of history.

    I will definitely post up more range reports. If you want to post your savage, or anyone wants to post their no4's. That would be cool. I always love old guns.
     
    The Lee Enfield is hands down the greatest bolt action battle rifle ever fielded… There were rifles that were more accurate. There were rifle as fast. There were rifles arguable more durable. There were rifles that held a similar capacity. But no other rifle combined all those traits into a single package as effectively as the Lee Enfield did.
     
    @Sooter76 when you dive down the forums on accurization.. The Enfield type rifles have a cult following. But I suppose most good, reliable, proven battle rifles command that.
    I've been very appreciative of all the knowledge and experience documented on the web.
    Especially the pdf's on maintenance and accurization from the Canadian military.
     
    The area at the base of the rear sight being ground out was an official modification to allow the bolt to be removed with the sight in the up position. It prevented damage to the bolt head.
    However, it has been drilled and taped to allow the screw to be used as a windage screw.
    As mentioned the sight is not normal for the No.4
    If you pin the knurled nut on the right hand side you have some windage, but a much finer thread is normally used and a spring detent on the nut.
    You can either use a hole in the receiver with a ball dentent and spring or a spring on the nut.
    I have seen many done this way.
     
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    @Sooter76 when you dive down the forums on accurization.. The Enfield type rifles have a cult following. But I suppose most good, reliable, proven battle rifles command that.
    I've been very appreciative of all the knowledge and experience documented on the web.
    Especially the pdf's on maintenance and accurization from the Canadian military.

    I certainly belong to that cult… The Garand was my gateway into the world of milsurp rifles (tho a pristine 1903a3 was my first milsurp rifle I bought), but the Lee Enfield no.4 is my lasting love.

    I currently have 4 of them…

    - Two war worn Longbranch MkI* rifles.

    - A faux-T built off a saved receiver from an unsalvageable stock. I had it rebarreled with a Criterion barrel, the pads (from Fulton’s of Bisby in the UK) mounted, and bracket (via Roger Payne, again in the UK) collimated by Bruce Dow who then sent it to Brian Dick to restock it per MoD specifications…

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    …it turned out beautifully and very accurate. I also have a repro scope that Warren on Milsurps.com worked over and ‘tarted up’ as he words it. The whole set up cost probably twice what it’s worth, but I wanted one I could use in vintage matches.

    - A Virgin no4 Mk2 I picked up cuz I wanted one essentially brand new. I paid $1000 for it, which at the time was slightly above market, but as prices have risen I think I got a pretty good deal.
     
    My mk2 shoots like crap. Figured I need a new barrel but Criterion hasn't stocked them in years so it sits forgotten in the back of the safe.
     
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    I've seen some surplus barrels occasionally. But not much for big name barrel makers. Seems there isn't a big demand for them. I'm sure a custom barrel could be made.
     
    That's gorgeous 😍
    I've thought about getting a cheek riser if I can find wood that matches.

    Thanks… It may not be authentic but I’m pretty proud of it.

    The wood didn’t match when I sent it all to Brian. He did a great job of making them match. If you do get a riser and you care about it being authentic be careful, most the one you see online aren’t shaped correctly. I think I got mine from DS Militaria in England.
     
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    @Sooter76
    Thanks!
    I've read the correct ones have brass screws. Also NOS stocks normally require alot of fitting. So I'll keep my eyes peeled for a issued one or correct repro.

    After inspecting the rifles condition some more. I was wrong about the barrel tension on the front band. It's not correct and there's alittle side play to the left and right.

    I've just got to sit down and read through the Canadian manual I have. I think it's the same as the MOD.
    Inside of the stock is decent. It does have a crack in the center of the "recoil lug" area.

    I am fairly knowledgeable in R700'ish actions and accurization methods.

    The Enfield and its cohorts are not something I understand really at all haha. I know it was renowned for its speed, capacity and ruggedness.

    Also my magazine may need tweeking. It will jam the second to last round in a mag, everytime... When loading the mag out of the gun. It wants to spit out rounds, like the feed lips are spread out a tad.

    Order of procession:
    1. Read MOD manual
    2. Take apart stock
    3. Correctly bed the receiver surface area
    4. Profit??
     
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    Well, to me. I think the rifle is gorgeous....

    Going from Bix/Andy TacPro and Anschutz 5098 triggers to a 6 pound long trigger...
    Really nice looking wood on this one.

    Regarding your trigger, if its a 6 pound long trigger you have something wrong.
    It should be a solid 2 stage trigger with a clear first and second stage, if it's one long pull, like a Mosin for example, there's an issue with your trigger.
    Your trigger pull in a No4Mk1 or No4Mk1* is directly related to the angle and depth of your trigger guard inlet, which is also related to the pillar which sits under your main screw (aka king screw).
    Often where these aren't fitting correctly (or a previous owner was a numpty who doesn't understand 2 stage triggers) you will find washers and all sorts of things packed in to adjust this relationship, none of these "fixes" belong and are either causing problems or masking them.

    A bit of a tangent here, over in the states it seems to be a lot of No4's that people own have issues that are much less common in Commonwealth countries, and I would hazard a guess that its a lot to do with the ongoing maintenance and knowledge of armorers around these rifles in the Commonwealth countries that kept ours going a lot cleaner, and maybe the familiarity of soldiers and civilians around the platform, like what would be seen with M1's and 03's in the states.

    We hear about a lot of mag issues, stock fit up issues, rifles getting "rim lock" etc, whereas over here they are so commonly used and maintained in competitions its only rifles that haven't been looked after that develop these issues.

    Magazine should be matching numbers. a lot are un-numbered. Another tangent i suppose but you see a lot of youtube people and others talking about how these are detachable magazine rifles and you can change mags to reload etc. This is partly responsible for some of the magazine problems seen. These rifles are made to be fed by charger (stripper) clips, not by changing mags (yes i'm aware of the plan of the original design to be issued with a spare) .
    The rifle was built and used with its original magazine staying in place. Post war civilian owners have caused most of the mag issues by swapping, modifying and replacing mags.

    There's some really good info out there on restoring and maintaining Lee Enfields including No4's, the channel mentioned above talks a lot about the bedding and fitment of wood, which is where the majority of problems can be resolved, the magazine is another.
    Once that mag feeds 10 rounds smoothly every time, leave it in!
     
    @S12A thanks for all that knowledge. Yes you are correct, I gave a horribly exaggerated tale of the trigger. It is infact a 2 stage. After dry firing some more and shooting a few more rounds. For a military trigger, it's quite nice. It has a long take up then maybe a 2-3lbs trigger.

    The magazine is number matching to the rifle. I've loaded it in the gun and shot 10 rounds. The second to last has always jammed into the left side of the receiver. I need to get some stripper clips and I'd like to get a bandolier or two. After looking at the feed lips, they are beat up alittle. I think I'll hold off tweeking them for now.

    After I read some more and get a better understanding of how the wood needs to be. I may bed the action. But I want to be certain I do it correctly.


    Thats the crack. Its all the way through.
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    That needs to come off so I can clean out the area and Acraglas the crack together. How does the metal band come off? It looks like it was a pin and the ends are kinda smashed to make it non removable?

    Otherwise the stock looks quite serviceable. No washers or spacers, totally unmolested. I've got to learn the correct way to shim the front barrel band. 4-7 lbs of pressure I think is what the book says. So lots of reading to make sure I comprehend the correct way to go about it.

    I really appreciate everyone's insight and comments on this. Thanks a bunch!!
     
    On the Lothar Walther Barrels, they only show No4 Mk1. Will that work on Mk2?
     
    Do you know how fun and exhilarating it is to unwrap and make ready something like this?
    I understand the excitement on getting an unissued weapon like this iconic weapon. But I have other plans like some high quality glass for another rifle. Plus I have so many other curio and relics that I haven't even shot that I'd like to get some use out of.
     
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    There's a mummified no4 with bayonet on GB I've been eying for a bit now. But I need/want LRF Binos for matches, so those are next.
    @Gingerman that's gorgeous! I need to try some of the 150's in mine. I've got loads of components, just need to get dies. From my understanding, 1" groups from these is great.
    @Rookie I believe it doesn't matter if it's a MK1 or MK2.
     
    BTW I had a book on accurizing Enfields. Basically you'd bed the rear stock junction to the action. Also I've found on the web how to bed the front stock section. Google it, if I find it I'll post on here.
     
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    I have an unfired irish contract No4 Mk2 that has been carefully removed from the wrap and I plan to fire the first rounds out of it this spring. I also have an unfired ‘43 Long Branch that I’ve been trying to bring myself to fire…I’m just not there yet. Maybe one day.
     
    I have an unfired irish contract No4 Mk2 that has been carefully removed from the wrap and I plan to fire the first rounds out of it this spring. I also have an unfired ‘43 Long Branch that I’ve been trying to bring myself to fire…I’m just not there yet. Maybe one day.
    Hand sanitizer cut through the cosmoline really good when I cleaned mine up out of wrapper.

    Oh, you need to shoot them. If you don’t, after you die, others will have all the fun!
     
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    Hand sanitizer cut through the cosmoline really good when I cleaned mine up out of wrapper.

    Oh, you need to shoot them. If you don’t, after you die, others will have all the fun!
    That's why I'm considering getting rid of mine. I don't shoot them, might as well get stuff I will shoot. Let someone else that will shoot them enjoy them.
     
    There's a mummified no4 with bayonet on GB I've been eying for a bit now. But I need/want LRF Binos for matches, so those are next.
    @Gingerman that's gorgeous! I need to try some of the 150's in mine. I've got loads of components, just need to get dies. From my understanding, 1" groups from these is great.
    @Rookie I believe it doesn't matter if it's a MK1 or MK2.
    I got a sight kit with various heights and match width I think. I needed the shortest one and drifted far left.
     
    That's why I'm considering getting rid of mine. I don't shoot them, might as well get stuff I will shoot. Let someone else that will shoot them enjoy them.

    Just make sure you really don’t care to shoot them. I previously had an Irish contract by serial new in the wrap and a new in the box/grease ‘41 Savage No4 and sold them both because I couldn’t bring myself to shoot them. Ended up regretting that decision and replacing them with what I have now which cost me a lot more money.
     
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    It would be tough to not shoot one. If I had 2 in cosmoline I would definitely shoot one and save the other.
    But you loose some historic value I think as well when you open it. There's only so many and someday they will all be gone.
    Tough decision...
     
    Just make sure you really don’t care to shoot them. I previously had an Irish contract by serial new in the wrap and a new in the box/grease ‘41 Savage No4 and sold them both because I couldn’t bring myself to shoot them. Ended up regretting that decision and replacing them with what I have now which cost me a lot more money.
    I have a No4 Mk1 Long Branch. Not particularly accurate but a fast bolt. After training with it I can work a Remington 700 almost as fast. I think I might equal it with a push feed Model 70.
     
    @S12A

    The magazine is number matching to the rifle. I've loaded it in the gun and shot 10 rounds. The second to last has always jammed into the left side of the receiver. I need to get some stripper clips and I'd like to get a bandolier or two. After looking at the feed lips, they are beat up alittle. I think I'll hold off tweeking them for now.




    Thats the crack. Its all the way through.


    View attachment 8121378

    That needs to come off so I can clean out the area and Acraglas the crack together. How does the metal band come off? It looks like it was a pin and the ends are kinda smashed to make it non removable?

    Otherwise the stock looks quite serviceable. No washers or spacers, totally unmolested. I've got to learn the correct way to shim the front barrel band. 4-7 lbs of pressure I think is what the book says. So lots of reading to make sure I comprehend the correct way to go about it.

    I really appreciate everyone's insight and comments on this. Thanks a bunch!!

    Hey mate,

    So holding that tie plate at the rear is a rivet, not a pin so it’s not really made to come out but if you do you will need to replace with similar, a long rivet that then gets cut off .

    Regarding the forend pressure, that’s actually achieved at the rear bedding not by shimming at the front . So if the rifle is bedded correctly at the rear it should end up with that pressure at the forend tip. Trouble is sometimes wood moves over time, occasionally all that’s needed to restore it is a good hit of oil, raw linseed oil heated it correct for the No4 . BLO is commonly used also.

    The mag lips are likely a bit dinged up from people using it as a detachable mag, that’s what tends to happen as they aren’t designed to be slapped in and out. Once you get it back working I’m sure it will be fine.

    Regarding the crack again, a good option might be to removed the cracked portion and replace with a new hardwood filler block . (Photo stolen from google)

    0EB79406-FCB7-4FFA-B13F-3D7A533B5E99.jpeg

    Another way small cracks can be repaired also is using threaded brass wire to reinforce the repair .
    A more ghetto way might be Accra-glass and a brass wood screw, don’t drive the screw the whole way in , use an over length screw and cut it off at each end , file the remained flush so it just looks like a brass pin when completed . If that makes sense . Will probably hold up to recoil better than Accra-glass or glue on its own .
     
    The Lee Enfield is hands down the greatest bolt action battle rifle ever fielded… There were rifles that were more accurate. There were rifle as fast. There were rifles arguable more durable. There were rifles that held a similar capacity. But no other rifle combined all those traits into a single package as effectively as the Lee Enfield did.
    The K31.
     
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    Nope… While the K31 was/is more accurate, it didn’t hold the same capacity and it wasn’t as fast. I know this is a controversial statement and I’ll grant you that mechanically the K31 is faster. However, when you consider that in action the shooter behind the K31 has to move his face from behind the bolt when cycling the action to avoid giving hisself a black eye, the Lee Enfield can be cycled without moving one’s face… As such, in action it’s pretty inarguable that the Lee Enfield is the faster rifle.

    Durability is an unknown since the Swiss rifles never had to go thru the rigors of combat… But even then I’d give the Lee Enfield the edge since, as a general rule, tighter tolerances tend to make for less rugged reliability.

    That said, I love my Swiss rifles.
     
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    @Sooter76 thanks again! I oiled the outside of the stock but did not oil the inside of the action area on the stock. Only reason I didn't is if I needed to bed it. Well it looks like I won't be taking that tie plate out then.. I will have to read up on putting a filler block in there.
    Gonna tweek the feed lips alittle. Apply some more oil to include the inside of the stock. Then take it to a buddies and see if we can hit steel at 450,820 and 1000 yards.

    Thanks again everyone for your contributions to this thread and helping me gain knowledge. Much appreciated! More to follow.
     
    Jungle carbine is what got me hooked years ago. Dad got an all original bring back from grandpa. Story goes grandpa's best friend was in the pacific theater and traded a M1 he had as an extra for it. I shot it at like 14 and have wanted one since lol.
    Sometimes, someday happens.
     
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    Jungle carbine is what got me hooked years ago. Dad got an all original bring back from grandpa. Story goes grandpa's best friend was in the pacific theater and traded a M1 he had as an extra for it. I shot it at like 14 and have wanted one since lol.
    Sometimes, someday happens.
    Old timer I worked with had one "want to shoot it?", the hell kind of question is that old man? Yes lol.

    Guy also had several military Jeeps and vehicles with every tool, radio, and whatever else it was issued with.

    He was a cool guy, but I lost contact with him pretty sure I heard he passed a while back.
     
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