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No more Scout Snipers

USMCSGT0331

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Minuteman
  • Mar 23, 2013
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    Minnesota
    www.snipershide.com
    I don't know if this has already been posted on the site, but here it is. Yesterday the Scout Sniper Association just broke the news that Scout Sniper platoons are no longer part of an infantry battalion and are being replaced by scout platoons. The 0317 Scout Sniper MOS billet is also being removed from infantry battalion's table of organization. There's no allocation of seats for the Scout Sniper basic course, but I've heard rumors that there could be one last class pushed though. Most of the sniper rifles (M40A6, Mk13 Mod 7 and Mk22) will be transferred to the new scout platoons, but there's no formal Marine Corps wide process to train Marines how to effectively utilize these weapons (you know, like some kind of sniper school or some shit).

    This shit is fucking ridiculous and it's a terrible move for the Marine Corps. Snipers are a necessity on the battlefield and do far more than just pull the trigger. Tons of snipers are being used in the current Ukraine/Russia war and both sides have racked up countless kills by sniping, which shows their effectiveness in modern warfare. This is a terrible decision and I hope it's quickly reversed.



    Screenshot_20230224_161015_Instagram.jpg

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    Screenshot_20230224_161031_Instagram.jpg
     
    So snipers will be part of recon, and not reg infantry battalions? And infantry battalions will have “scout” platoons instead. What is a “scout” and what does a platoon of them do? Is this change desired to train less snipers?
     
    This is going to cause a shit storm of epic proportions.
    What was the actual motivation? Empire building or dismantling? Lack of $$$? If recon gets designated snipers, how many? More or less total than previously? Who tasks recon? Is the purpose of this change to remove tools from regular battalion COs and concentrate it on vetted senior politicians in uniform? Or to defang the entire Corps?
     
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    Just need to send the rifles to the Ukraine for awhile.. than we will get back to it.
     
    I case anyone is wondering, the Scout Sniper Association is still going to be working hard to support our USMC snipers. We'll still be supporting active duty MARSOC and Recon snipers, as well as supporting any Marine snipers (retired and veteran) that need our assistance. We're still working hard to keep the organization running smoothly and focused on our mission. If anyone wants to help support the Scout Sniper Association and what we do, please check out our 03/17 day rifle sweepstakes! 100% of the funds raised goes towards supporting our Marine snipers!

    https://scoutsniper.org/scout-sniper-annual-sweepstakes/
     
    This is imho intentional treason by our military leadership as clear as it gets. Why not just get rid of artillery or armor while they are at it? The need and effectiveness is well known of these warriors.
     
    What the actual fuck ? Will put on a call to my local Rhino shit bags .
    Good luck with that. It pains me to say it but repubs have been excelling at losing and even better at being turncoats, like McConnell. I have gotten plain damn tired of watching him saber-rattle and give stern looks to dems and then turn around give them literally every single thing they want with a "stern" sounding "next time, we will hold their feet to the fire."

    Big fat liar.

    As for dissolving the distinct scout sniper platoons, that is not going to be good. Sure, I can imagine some training still going on for those in Force Recon or even the Raiders.

    I understand that they are saying that the coming wars and actions we will fight are in, their opinion, going to be different than what it was in WWi, WWII, or Vietnam. And they are wrong.

    It seems more like stripping us of weapons and ability to make us a softer target for other countries. Tactical disarming with the intention of selling us into slavery. Well, my name is not Toby. It's Kunta Kinte. No, actually, not that either. Do we need another presidential speech from Bill Pullman?
     
    Is this a real thing or just give your office a new acronym taken further? Do all 0317s magically turn into 0322s? Does the schoolhouse just turn into a "Recon Sniper" school and in the end... very little changes?
     
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    It's a sad day for the Corps, there's absolutely not reason to get rid of the Scout Snipers. The more I think about this, the more ridiculous it seems
    Which is precisely why they are doing it.

    Let's see... highly-trained, highly-motivated, highly-intelligent Marines who can make a big difference on the battlefield with a single rifle.

    Total threat to "Our Democracy."

    Probably the DoD's reaction to the fact that Snipers Hide doesn't tolerate commies. So must get rid of 'snipers.' After all, they might not be woke.

    We are living in opposite world... when the Scout Snipers provide huge ROI on the battlefield for little cost... you have to get rid of them. And use the money to promote the development of same sex sleeping bags and including AstroGlide in MRE's.

    Don't think any of this is by accident.

    Buckle up!

    Sirhr
     
    Is this a real thing or just give your office a new acronym taken further? Do all 0317s magically turn into 0322s? Does the schoolhouse just turn into a "Recon Sniper" school and in the end... very little changes?

    Yes, this is a real thing! Scout Sniper platoons, the school houses and the billets for 0317's in infantry battalions is over!

    No, 0317's don't turn into 0322's. 0317's are Scout Snipers that passed the Scout Sniper basic course, 0322's are Recon snipers that passed the Recon sniper school. They're completely different things and aren't interchangeable. No, the Scout Sniper basic schools don't just turn into Recon sniper schools, they have absolutely nothing to do with each other. It's like saying that the Naval Academy is going to turn into the Air Force Academy. Apples and oranges.

    The HQMC thinks that because the Corps has snipers with MARSOC and Recon, they'll be able to task those individuals out to infantry battalions that need them. That line of thinking is a fucking joke, I'd love to see them actually try that with these units, especially MARSOC, lol.

    Scout Snipers are gone, unless somehow someone intervenes, which won't happen with the "leadership" we currently have in the Corps. I'm not sure if the MARADMIN on this has been published yet, it was supposed to drop yesterday but I don't think has yet.
     
    This is imho intentional treason by our military leadership as clear as it gets. Why not just get rid of artillery or armor while they are at it? The need and effectiveness is well known of these warriors.
    Read force 2030 or whatever it is.

    Armor is gone and I think arty now is HIMARs
     
    Watching “Battle Cry” on Turner Classic Movies.

    Leon Uris would cry.
     
    No, 0317's don't turn into 0322's. 0317's are Scout Snipers that passed the Scout Sniper basic course, 0322's are Recon snipers that passed the Recon sniper school. They're completely different things and aren't interchangeable. No, the Scout Sniper basic schools don't just turn into Recon sniper schools, they have absolutely nothing to do with each other. It's like saying that the Naval Academy is going to turn into the Air Force Academy. Apples and oranges.

    Can you go in a little more details on the differences and similarities?
     
    As long as we have F-22’s, AIM-9’s, and now the Space Force, we’re good.
     
    They are struggling with what the marine corps will do with near pier adversaries.

    Every war game run (civilian and pentagon) with China has the marines and current doctrine getting wiped out.

    They can’t land and the idea of small pockets waiting for resupply never happens as chinas idea is area denial/distance.

    Not saying it’s right or wrong but like someone above posted the days of landing on a contested beach with cheap kamikaze drones and precision weapons might be gone.

    Unless you own the air a bunch of guys behind sand dunes with javelins and there are a lot of landing craft sinking.
     
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    This is imho intentional treason by our military leadership as clear as it gets. Why not just get rid of artillery or armor while they are at it? The need and effectiveness is well known of these warriors.
    Shit they already have done that homie
     
    Can you go in a little more details on the differences and similarities?

    It's going to be similar skills, but they're trained to a higher level on more stuff. For example, a Scout Sniper will go to the basic school and then various follow-on schools (high angle course/mountain sniper, urban sniper, advanced sniper course, etc). But, not all Scout Snipers will attend these follow-on courses, so they won't have this specialized training. The MARSOC school incorporates all of these courses into their curriculum and they are a different level of sniper (SOCOM has their own ratings that conventional forces don't have). The Scout Snipers basic school is just that, it's your basic level of knowledge to become a sniper in the Marine Corps. The Recon sniper school is in flux right now, since it's so new, but they're more shooting focused than anything else. As a Recon Marines they already have advanced training in scouting, camouflage, etc, so their sniper school doesn't need to go over more of that.

    The biggest takeaway from all of this is that the sniper skill set is now gone from the Marine infantry battalions, even though HQMC recognizes the usefulness of snipers on the battlefield, which is why they're keeping MARSOC and Recon snipers. So, if snipers are effective, then it makes absolutely no sense to remove them from infantry battalions. MARSOC and Recon aren't going to farm out their snipers to infantry battalions, so this sniper skill set is lost and can't be incorporated into a battalion's combined arms.
     
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    0331 Sgt Pig gunner.
    When I left the Talega Zone,,,first we moved to Los Pulgas . Gone were our beloved Quonson huts.
    Then they disbanded us,gone was 0321/8654.
    The joined us to LAVs as scouts.
    This was before they ended up at Margarita.
    Along came the Gulf War,, magically,,the knew we were needed. Back came 0321/8654.
    The Corps change is infinite,that's the only constant. For the worse,usually.
    Indoc runs with a log,,getting put down for 25+5 4 count push ups. Or as Coates used to say ,,the American push/push Airborne,scuba record ,ranger and one for Sgt ( whoever put in the front leaning rest 🍻🍺🍻)
    Gone were our beloved Company signs.
     

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    Which is precisely why they are doing it.

    Let's see... highly-trained, highly-motivated, highly-intelligent Marines who can make a big difference on the battlefield with a single rifle.

    Total threat to "Our Democracy."

    Probably the DoD's reaction to the fact that Snipers Hide doesn't tolerate commies. So must get rid of 'snipers.' After all, they might not be woke.

    We are living in opposite world... when the Scout Snipers provide huge ROI on the battlefield for little cost... you have to get rid of them. And use the money to promote the development of same sex sleeping bags and including AstroGlide in MRE's.

    Don't think any of this is by accident.

    Buckle up!

    Sirhr
    Cmon man! The Retard in charge has to make cut backs somewhere where he can fund and ship illegal aliens all over the country! Oh yea, I forgot about Ukraine! America last!😡
     
    Isn’t the entire history of snipers in the US military essentially…

    We don’t need no stinkin’ snipers
    WAR WERE DECLARED
    Shit, we need some snipers
    Peace were declared
    We don’t need no stinkin’ snipers
    WAR WERE DECLARED
    Shit, we need some snipers
    Peace were declared…
    Repeat
    Repeat
     
    I case anyone is wondering, the Scout Sniper Association is still going to be working hard to support our USMC snipers. We'll still be supporting active duty MARSOC and Recon snipers, as well as supporting any Marine snipers (retired and veteran) that need our assistance. We're still working hard to keep the organization running smoothly and focused on our mission. If anyone wants to help support the Scout Sniper Association and what we do, please check out our 03/17 day rifle sweepstakes! 100% of the funds raised goes towards supporting our Marine snipers!

    https://scoutsniper.org/scout-sniper-annual-sweepstakes/
    Thanks for the plug brother!
     
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    Isn’t the entire history of snipers in the US military essentially…

    We don’t need no stinkin’ snipers
    WAR WERE DECLARED
    Shit, we need some snipers
    Peace were declared
    We don’t need no stinkin’ snipers
    WAR WERE DECLARED
    Shit, we need some snipers
    Peace were declared…
    Repeat
    Repeat
    Yes.

    But if one also looks at our history, we generally get our asses handed to ourselves in opening engagements before troops, the military leadership and our systems/equipment/training/doctrine catch up. Usually supported by an industrial and resources base the likes of which noone in the world has.

    However, China has managed to absorb most of our industrial base... and the commie leftist greenie shit-weasels have placed our resources out of reach... because you can't drill, dig, extract, mow, cut or otherwise harvest anything other than the fucking organic arugula that Obama wants on his salad.

    So if we get in anything... Ukraine, Taiwan, some third world shithole proxy war... we don't have the troops we had in Grenada, Panama, Gulf, Afghan and Iraq. Well, maybe the NCO's. Who have not been purged or purged themselves out for good reason. (See Woke Sr. Officer Corps above). Or due to vax mandates. And I'm not saying they aren't amazing kids for the most part in our forces. But if they aren't trained, led, motivated and brought up from day 1 of boot camp to be warriors... they are going to die. Horribly and rapidly.

    Teaching them non-binary saluting and that fags in foxholes is core to our readiness... is not making them warriors. It is making them wimps.

    While our privates and specialists and lance corporals and-5's and O1's are being taught to be inclusive and are pinning pride flags on their barracks... and yearning to go to a Drag Dining In...

    The Chinese are teaching their 100 million surplus mouths that killing is what they are put on earth for... and that to honor their grandparents, they will walk through a minefield holding nothing more than a pointed stick in order to kill Yanquees.

    So it's bigger than snipers and scouts. Will the need come back? Yes. Will the skill be retained... actually it will. In the alumni and retirees and veterans who will be called back to train new generations. That is, assuming that after the first engagements there are enough Soldiers and Marines left to train. Because the first engagements will be disasterous.

    Just to put things in perspective when I say 'bloody...' America had a national hissy fit when we lost 50,000 troops over almost 15 years in VN. On average 10 died each day through the duration of the conflict. In the 20 years of Afghanistan and Iraq, we tragically lost 7000 troops. That's an average of less than one lost American a day.

    On Tarawa we lost more than 1000 Marines in 76 hours. On Peleliu, in 45 Days, we lost 2200. On Iwo Jima, in 36 days, 7,000 Marines were killed. On Okinawa, in 80 Days we lost 12,500 killed soldiers and Marines. That's against an enemy that was on the ropes, starving, under-equipped, fighting to the death.... against the well-trained, well-supplied, well-motivated and brilliantly led Marines and Soldiers. That's 150+ telegrams a day. In an era with no TV and a country that was willing to see it through.

    I won't even go into the Meuse-Argonne where we lost 26,000 dead in a few weeks. Or the Civil War where battles were in the thousands in a single day. Or the fact that casualties were 5x the dead. The above numbers are deaths. Not wounded, burned, amputated, TBI'd, etc.

    If we really go to war now in the all-out conflict that the Biden admin and globalists seem to want, it will not be a low intensity conflict. And the numbers will make the above KIA look tame. Not because we aren't well-equipped or our troops aren't patriotic. But because they will have been killed by policies that turned them into cannon fodder instead of warriors.

    Oh and... I'm just an historian/futurist type. Some of you with more 'direct' experience... please prove me wrong. I soooo want to be wrong.

    Sirhr
     
    Is this a real thing or just give your office a new acronym taken further? Do all 0317s magically turn into 0322s? Does the schoolhouse just turn into a "Recon Sniper" school and in the end... very little changes?
    Yes, no and no. 0317’s simply revert to their primary MOS, like 0311 or 0331. To be an 0322, you must already be a Recon 0321 and then attend the brand new Recon Sniper course, which is almost all shooting and no field skills. And Recon can’t produce enough of those to support their own internal need for snipers, much less support infantry battalions that request them.
     
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    Yes.

    But if one also looks at our history, we generally get our asses handed to ourselves in opening engagements before troops, the military leadership and our systems/equipment/training/doctrine catch up. Usually supported by an industrial and resources base the likes of which noone in the world has.

    However, China has managed to absorb most of our industrial base... and the commie leftist greenie shit-weasels have placed our resources out of reach... because you can't drill, dig, extract, mow, cut or otherwise harvest anything other than the fucking organic arugula that Obama wants on his salad.

    So if we get in anything... Ukraine, Taiwan, some third world shithole proxy war... we don't have the troops we had in Grenada, Panama, Gulf, Afghan and Iraq. Well, maybe the NCO's. Who have not been purged or purged themselves out for good reason. (See Woke Sr. Officer Corps above). Or due to vax mandates. And I'm not saying they aren't amazing kids for the most part in our forces. But if they aren't trained, led, motivated and brought up from day 1 of boot camp to be warriors... they are going to die. Horribly and rapidly.

    Teaching them non-binary saluting and that fags in foxholes is core to our readiness... is not making them warriors. It is making them wimps.

    While our privates and specialists and lance corporals and-5's and O1's are being taught to be inclusive and are pinning pride flags on their barracks... and yearning to go to a Drag Dining In...

    The Chinese are teaching their 100 million surplus mouths that killing is what they are put on earth for... and that to honor their grandparents, they will walk through a minefield holding nothing more than a pointed stick in order to kill Yanquees.

    So it's bigger than snipers and scouts. Will the need come back? Yes. Will the skill be retained... actually it will. In the alumni and retirees and veterans who will be called back to train new generations. That is, assuming that after the first engagements there are enough Soldiers and Marines left to train. Because the first engagements will be disasterous.

    Just to put things in perspective when I say 'bloody...' America had a national hissy fit when we lost 50,000 troops over almost 15 years in VN. On average 10 died each day through the duration of the conflict. In the 20 years of Afghanistan and Iraq, we tragically lost 7000 troops. That's an average of less than one lost American a day.

    On Tarawa we lost more than 1000 Marines in 76 hours. On Peleliu, in 45 Days, we lost 2200. On Iwo Jima, in 36 days, 7,000 Marines were killed. On Okinawa, in 80 Days we lost 12,500 killed soldiers and Marines. That's against an enemy that was on the ropes, starving, under-equipped, fighting to the death.... against the well-trained, well-supplied, well-motivated and brilliantly led Marines and Soldiers. That's 150+ telegrams a day. In an era with no TV and a country that was willing to see it through.

    I won't even go into the Meuse-Argonne where we lost 26,000 dead in a few weeks. Or the Civil War where battles were in the thousands in a single day. Or the fact that casualties were 5x the dead. The above numbers are deaths. Not wounded, burned, amputated, TBI'd, etc.

    If we really go to war now in the all-out conflict that the Biden admin and globalists seem to want, it will not be a low intensity conflict. And the numbers will make the above KIA look tame. Not because we aren't well-equipped or our troops aren't patriotic. But because they will have been killed by policies that turned them into cannon fodder instead of warriors.

    Oh and... I'm just an historian/futurist type. Some of you with more 'direct' experience... please prove me wrong. I soooo want to be wrong.

    Sirhr
    I wish I could prove you wrong. However, all of my military experience says you are likely correct.
     
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    Yes.

    But if one also looks at our history, we generally get our asses handed to ourselves in opening engagements before troops, the military leadership and our systems/equipment/training/doctrine catch up. Usually supported by an industrial and resources base the likes of which noone in the world has.

    However, China has managed to absorb most of our industrial base... and the commie leftist greenie shit-weasels have placed our resources out of reach... because you can't drill, dig, extract, mow, cut or otherwise harvest anything other than the fucking organic arugula that Obama wants on his salad.

    So if we get in anything... Ukraine, Taiwan, some third world shithole proxy war... we don't have the troops we had in Grenada, Panama, Gulf, Afghan and Iraq. Well, maybe the NCO's. Who have not been purged or purged themselves out for good reason. (See Woke Sr. Officer Corps above). Or due to vax mandates. And I'm not saying they aren't amazing kids for the most part in our forces. But if they aren't trained, led, motivated and brought up from day 1 of boot camp to be warriors... they are going to die. Horribly and rapidly.

    Teaching them non-binary saluting and that fags in foxholes is core to our readiness... is not making them warriors. It is making them wimps.

    While our privates and specialists and lance corporals and-5's and O1's are being taught to be inclusive and are pinning pride flags on their barracks... and yearning to go to a Drag Dining In...

    The Chinese are teaching their 100 million surplus mouths that killing is what they are put on earth for... and that to honor their grandparents, they will walk through a minefield holding nothing more than a pointed stick in order to kill Yanquees.

    So it's bigger than snipers and scouts. Will the need come back? Yes. Will the skill be retained... actually it will. In the alumni and retirees and veterans who will be called back to train new generations. That is, assuming that after the first engagements there are enough Soldiers and Marines left to train. Because the first engagements will be disasterous.

    Just to put things in perspective when I say 'bloody...' America had a national hissy fit when we lost 50,000 troops over almost 15 years in VN. On average 10 died each day through the duration of the conflict. In the 20 years of Afghanistan and Iraq, we tragically lost 7000 troops. That's an average of less than one lost American a day.

    On Tarawa we lost more than 1000 Marines in 76 hours. On Peleliu, in 45 Days, we lost 2200. On Iwo Jima, in 36 days, 7,000 Marines were killed. On Okinawa, in 80 Days we lost 12,500 killed soldiers and Marines. That's against an enemy that was on the ropes, starving, under-equipped, fighting to the death.... against the well-trained, well-supplied, well-motivated and brilliantly led Marines and Soldiers. That's 150+ telegrams a day. In an era with no TV and a country that was willing to see it through.

    I won't even go into the Meuse-Argonne where we lost 26,000 dead in a few weeks. Or the Civil War where battles were in the thousands in a single day. Or the fact that casualties were 5x the dead. The above numbers are deaths. Not wounded, burned, amputated, TBI'd, etc.

    If we really go to war now in the all-out conflict that the Biden admin and globalists seem to want, it will not be a low intensity conflict. And the numbers will make the above KIA look tame. Not because we aren't well-equipped or our troops aren't patriotic. But because they will have been killed by policies that turned them into cannon fodder instead of warriors.

    Oh and... I'm just an historian/futurist type. Some of you with more 'direct' experience... please prove me wrong. I soooo want to be wrong.

    Sirhr

    The navy expects (war games reports) to loose at least 2 carriers if we go at it over Taiwan.

    And that is just in defense of Taiwan, all war games pretty much say that landing on Chinese soil with force is almost impossible with out staggering losses.

    Brass looking at budget and organization ..who cares about snipers we need to prepare for 10,000 sailors, 150 aircraft and upwards of 40 billion at the bottom of the sea

    That’s all before we even think about using small arms.
     
    The navy expects (war games reports) to loose at least 2 carriers if we go at it over Taiwan.

    And that is just in defense of Taiwan, all war games pretty much say that landing on Chinese soil with force is almost impossible with out staggering losses.

    Brass looking at budget and organization ..who cares about snipers we need to prepare for 10,000 sailors, 150 aircraft and upwards of 40 billion at the bottom of the sea

    That’s all before we even think about using small arms.
    Who cares about snipers??? What a ridiculous statement. While it’s true that we may end up going against China at some point, and it will surely be ugly, there are few tactical scenarios involving ground troops where the presence of snipers wouldn’t improve our odds. What, do you think that snipers are used in a bubble where everyone else stops and waits for the sniper to take his shot? No, they’re an integral part of any battle plan, and they can better our odds in almost any combat scenario.
     
    Who cares about snipers??? What a ridiculous statement. While it’s true that we may end up going against China at some point, and it will surely be ugly, there are few tactical scenarios involving ground troops where the presence of snipers wouldn’t improve our odds. What, do you think that snipers are used in a bubble where everyone else stops and waits for the sniper to take his shot? No, they’re an integral part of any battle plan, and they can better our odds in almost any combat scenario.
    That's why I don't get this at all. Force Design 2030 is all about tiny numbers of rapidly deployed Marines out on distance and austere places doing:
    1. Force multiplier stuff
    2. Sneakily
    3. While gathering, and most of all disseminating, information
    4. To protect Cyber and Log stuff, in prep for heavy force (USN, USAF, Army) strike fires and movement to attack/counterattack.
    It seems hard to understand how existing Scout Sniper stuff generally doesn't mesh perfectly with this new plan, no matter which way you cut "emphasis on raids" or "more mobile force" or other buzzphrases. I usually at least understand changes even if I disagree but I don't even get this one. Can't they focus more on merging logistics functions and giving existing programs new acronyms instead?
     
    Who cares about snipers??? What a ridiculous statement. While it’s true that we may end up going against China at some point, and it will surely be ugly, there are few tactical scenarios involving ground troops where the presence of snipers wouldn’t improve our odds. What, do you think that snipers are used in a bubble where everyone else stops and waits for the sniper to take his shot? No, they’re an integral part of any battle plan, and they can better our odds in almost any combat scenario.
    I think he meant that tongue in cheek or at least I hope so.
     
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    Who cares about snipers??? What a ridiculous statement. While it’s true that we may end up going against China at some point, and it will surely be ugly, there are few tactical scenarios involving ground troops where the presence of snipers wouldn’t improve our odds. What, do you think that snipers are used in a bubble where everyone else stops and waits for the sniper to take his shot? No, they’re an integral part of any battle plan, and they can better our odds in almost any combat scenario.
    Slow up for a second. This was delayed sarcasm....Everyone here knows snipers are essential to battlefield ops... :ROFLMAO:
     
    My mom was a telephone operator. At some point, someone decided “hey, let’s not have telephone operators anymore.” Someone else probably said “but, we need telephones.” That first person said “we’ll still have phones.” There’s an analogy in there somewhere…
     
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