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Nothing like a brand new rusted barrel, didn't even need to scope this one! :)

T

ToddM

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Just unpacked this new Wilson Combat 22" Super Sniper .224 barrel still in the factory sealed wrap. I took a look at the crown and could see heavy rusting right away without even using a light, with a light the whole inside of the end of the barrel looked reddish/orange. Pulled out the borescope and about the last 10" is heavy rust. I also hit a pretty good obstruction at the gas port, that's pretty ugly as well. Definitely the worst new barrel I've ever unpacked from a corrosion standpoint, or gas port.

Pretty amusing when the manufacturer's webpage has a video showing them scoping the barrel twice during production, including after the gas port is cut at final inspection :ROFLMAO: I mean I'm sure it's possible it rusted after it left there, but that gas port sure didn't happen after it left. There's no way you could slide a bore scope past that and not feel it.

Not sure if I should just return it to the vendor (they'll probably just repackage it for some other poor sucker) or get ahold of the manufacturer. I've had some ugly looking scoped barrels shoot well before but with that much corrosion it seems like it's just going to have problems with fowling and probably pitting even if it's cleaned up.

Just more evidence that I am a bad QC magnet, companies should pay me to buy their stuff just to get rid of the lemons.

IMG_4203.jpegIMG_4212.jpegIMG_4222.pngIMG_4210.jpeg
 
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The truth is shit happens! No manufacturer is batting 1000.

I've had to return barrels from the best in the industry, JP, Craddock, CLE, GAP. I know it's annoying but as mentioned above it's more important about what that company does to make it right.. try returning a barrel to LaRue, they all but tell you directly to fuck off.
 
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looks like you have as good of luck as me. If there is going to be a problem with something I will end up having it. So far I am at 3 returned barrels that are Wilson Arms not combat. 2 were 9mm ar15 barrels from JSE Surplus and a WOA 18" SPR barrel. All 3 had defects and were horrible shooters. 4 Ballistic Advantage barrels sent back.

Whats really funny was 3 different Bear Creek barrels shot better than the 4 BA and the one WOA barrels. I really think everything made in the past 3 years is garbage. And now we are seeing more of it as their stock is being sold off. If it is brand new production you might get something good.
 
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That looks like shit.

I just got a new 20" ss from Wilson in 223. The bore was bright, crisp rifling and slightly oiled. It hammers too.

I'd email them and ask for a return label and exchange.

Sucks you got a new barrel you can't even use. Should be able to open the box, put it on and go shooting.

I'm sure they will take care of you if you call or email.
 
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tomme boy said:
looks like you have as good of luck as me. If there is going to be a problem with something I will end up having it. So far I am at 3 returned barrels that are Wilson Arms not combat. 2 were 9mm ar15 barrels from JSE Surplus and a WOA 18" SPR barrel. All 3 had defects and were horrible shooters. 4 Ballistic Advantage barrels sent back.

Whats really funny was 3 different Bear Creek barrels shot better than the 4 BA and the one WOA barrels. I really think everything made in the past 3 years is garbage. And now we are seeing more of it as their stock is being sold off. If it is brand new production you might get something good.
Click to expand...
Yep, I feel your pain.......

3 - JP barrels that did not shoot well, 3 that shoot amazing - that said best company I've ever dealt with for issues in the firearms industry
1 - Razor Gen 2 4.5-27 that everyone says is a bulletproof boat anchor, parallax knob let go and unscrewed itself.
1 - Athlon Cronus Tactical focus stopped working
1 - SIG MXC that was a shotgun at 50yds with 55-77gr rounds.
1 - SIG MPX that would not cycle and ate firing pins
2 - RMR's that stopped holding adjustments.

The corrosion certainly could have happened anywhere before or after it left Wilson, maybe 224 barrels are so unpopular now they are sitting around rusting! It would be hard to convince me that the gas port wasn't like that when it left Wilson though. As you said Quality and certainly Quality Control has tanked the last 3 years in just about every industry. The real annoyance these days is it's so ridiculously painful to return a firearm, even to the manufacturer. Local UPS hubs here don't know their own policies and won't accept them, end up having to ship them back through an FFL at significant expense.

Contacted Wilson, I'll follow up with the outcome
 
I wasn't highly impressed with my WC barrel. Tool marks, gas port was too small, and it has 0 freebore. I tried to talk it through with WC and didn't get very far with them after I told them I needed to open the port to get it to cycle anything. I'm going to rent a throat reamer and get the .075" of freebore it needs to seat bullets to 2.80. 2.70" is all I can seat presently.
 
I own three WC barrels. My first (and why I bought more) was a 6.5 Grendel barrel that shoots as well as I could hope for a $300 barrel. I bought a .308 barrel, and it shoots MOA with hunting bullets. My third (another 6.5 Grendel) has only 20 factory rounds through it, so the jury is still out for a bit on that one.

However, like a couple here - I have a knack for buying the shit that doesn't work. I've had one BA and one WOA barrel, and neither would shoot better than your typical milspec barrel. My Criterion came with an undersized gas port, and they told me that I was f-ed up when I called and asked why an 18" rifle length gas on a .308 had a .068 port. So after opening it up with my drill press, it runs like a top and is accurate...but I'm never buying another Criterion product again.

If there are 10 items on a shelf with one of them broken and the other nine working perfectly...I'll manage to grab the broken one just about every time.
 
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ToddM said:
The real annoyance these days is it's so ridiculously painful to return a firearm, even to the manufacturer. Local UPS hubs here don't know their own policies and won't accept them, end up having to ship them back through an FFL at significant expense.
Click to expand...

Your local UPS hubs are correct.

As of around September of 22 UPS stopped allowing individuals to ship firearms and even firearms parts through them, to do so now you must have an FFL and sign an FFL shipping agreement with UPS. As an individual you can't even ship something as innocent as a wood stock, bare barrel, or AR grip through UPS anymore as they are considered firearms parts and require an FFL shipping agreement. If you send firearms parts through UPS without an FFL shipping account and something gets lost or damaged during shipping they won't pay you a dime as you are in violation of their shipping policies. The only firearm part an individual is allowed to ship via UPS with a regular shipping account is a scope, as they are specifically exempted.

If a manufacturer sends you a UPS return label for a firearm or firearm part that was generated with their FFL UPS account, then you can schedule a pickup or take it to the local hub. No firearm or firearm parts shipments can be accepted at 3rd party places like a UPS store.

Back on the original subject, that barrel is ugly and I hope they make it right. Just don't ship it back to them using UPS if you're paying for the label, lol!
 
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ToddM said:
The real annoyance these days is it's so ridiculously painful to return a firearm, even to the manufacturer. Local UPS hubs here don't know their own policies and won't accept them, end up having to ship them back through an FFL at significant expense.
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Use the USPS. They ship rifles, but not ammo or (I think) pistols/handguns.
 
carbonbased said:
Use the USPS. They ship rifles, but not ammo or (I think) pistols/handguns.
Click to expand...

USPS is probably the best option for an individual right now as you can still ship gun parts and long guns through them as an individual, but for larger packages USPS rates get out of hand. I recently had to ship a barrel coast to coast, and USPS was $57 with insurance whereas UPS would have been $22 with insurance. Get to something like a rifle sized package and USPS rates get pretty ridiculous.

canezach said:
You guys are bitching, but people pay good money for that kind of patina 🤣
Click to expand...

Lol! Who's going to be the first vendor to charge extra for "survivor" or "barn find" barrels with patina right out of the box? Seems like something larue would do, lol
 
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roostercogburn98 said:
I’ve got a BA barrel that is fubar. Their CS hasn’t responded to me in almost a month. I believe it will get cut apart with the plasma torch this weekend.
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My BA experience was (surprisingly) the opposite. I did have to go through two emails where I had to prove that I wasn't an idiot who couldn't shoot, but once they were satisfied they actually sent me a new barrel before I had even returned the first.

The second barrel went onto a build for my dad...I never really did much more than function test it, but it seemed to do really well with M855 of all things. My original BA barrel that I sent back was a solid 2.5 MOA performer with just about everything.

They probably fired the good guy that I dealt with for being too helpful, and replaced him with the turd you got. :D
 
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ToddM said:
Just unpacked this new Wilson Combat 22" Super Sniper .224 barrel still in the factory sealed wrap. I took a look at the crown and could see heavy rusting right away without even using a light, with a light the whole inside of the end of the barrel looked reddish/orange. Pulled out the borescope and about the last 10" is heavy rust. I also hit a pretty good obstruction at the gas port, that's pretty ugly as well. Definitely the worst new barrel I've ever unpacked from a corrosion standpoint, or gas port.

Pretty amusing when the manufacturer's webpage has a video showing them scoping the barrel twice during production, including after the gas port is cut at final inspection :ROFLMAO: I mean I'm sure it's possible it rusted after it left there, but that gas port sure didn't happen after it left. There's no way you could slide a bore scope past that and not feel it.

Not sure if I should just return it to the vendor (they'll probably just repackage it for some other poor sucker) or get ahold of the manufacturer. I've had some ugly looking scoped barrels shoot well before but with that much corrosion it seems like it's just going to have problems with fowling and probably pitting even if it's cleaned up.

Just more evidence that I am a bad QC magnet, companies should pay me to buy their stuff just to get rid of the lemons.

View attachment 8163394View attachment 8163385View attachment 8163392View attachment 8163384
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Yes I had a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel I returned to Wilson Combat, after borescoping it out. It was a mixed bag as to the reception...the folks answering the phone were nice. But tbe first guy I talked to in customer service was a jerk... and almost ran out of tbe 30 day return policy after purchasing, before another guy stepped in and was customer friendly and sent me another barrel. So I continued to do do business with Wilson Combat, even purchasing 2 barrels at a time...with no further problems. Other barrel companies have sent out bad barrels too, Odin Works 9mm barrel wouldn't chamber 9mm ammo completely, as worn reamer was used ...ordered a reamer from Brownells to correct it. Faxon has had a couple, their 3 twist was horrible, with galling, pits, reamer marks and torn rifling especially at tbe beginning. They had the only 3 twist 8.6 Blackout game in town. So I ran a patch through the barrel , rust and metal chips came out of the barrel. Lapped the barrel with carbide lapping compound, then a polishing lapp, so the rifling was present in the bore, opened the gas port. And it shoots 300 gr subs pretty good .. Faxon sent me a 20% off coupon, not much for the trouble, as they responded late, but I bought another Faxon barrel in 450 Bushmaster 16" twist for 502 gr subs, and added a recoil pad . Over 3000 ft/lbs of energy out of a 16" AR 15 450 BM 185 gr copper to 502 gr lead. A fun pinker.
 
roostercogburn98 said:
I’ve got a BA barrel that is fubar. Their CS hasn’t responded to me in almost a month. I believe it will get cut apart with the plasma torch this weekend.
Click to expand...

The one I sent back they held it for a couple weeks, tested it and then sent a replacement. Had to call and email a couple times to get their attention. Whole thing took about 3weeks.
 
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BCP said:
The one I sent back they held it for a couple weeks, tested it and then sent a replacement. Had to call and email a couple times to get their attention. Whole thing took about 3weeks.
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Been a month from the initial contact and nothing. I sent another email last week around Tuesday. I haven’t cut the barrel up yet, but it’s on my short list. They don’t seem too worried about contacting me back.
 
roostercogburn98 said:
Been a month from the initial contact and nothing. I sent another email last week around Tuesday. I haven’t cut the barrel up yet, but it’s on my short list. They don’t seem too worried about contacting me back.
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I'd be calling in everyday until somebody did something.
 
Just as an update, Wilson provided a return shipping label and it was returned to them on Friday 6/23. We'll see what gets sent back!
 
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I heard back from Wilson Combat today, they are returning the barrel. The shop repair notes are that they "removed loose hanging burrs from gas port, and brushed the light discoloration from stress relief process"

I'll be really surprised if the barrel looks okay with a bore scope when it comes back, but we'll see, I'll be happy to be wrong. Hard to tell in the pics but some of the issues at the gas port look like not just burrs but chip outs as well.
 
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ToddM said:
I heard back from Wilson Combat today, they are returning the barrel. The shop repair notes are that they "removed loose hanging burrs from gas port, and brushed the light discoloration from stress relief process"

I'll be really surprised if the barrel looks okay with a bore scope when it comes back, but we'll see, I'll be happy to be wrong.
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The gas port hole hit dead center of the land, IMO that will always drag copper off the bullets and cause copper fouling from the port to the muzzle.
 
Constructor said:
The gas port hole hit dead center of the land, IMO that will always drag copper off the bullets and cause copper fouling from the port to the muzzle.
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Agreed, and if there are chip outs at the gas block they usually always get worse and tend to collect a ton of jacketing material. My first 224v barrel from JP had that issue. I was pretty surprised to see they didn't replace it on sight, but again I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I get it back.
 
I looked at the posted photos...the drill was dull on the cutting edge and or feed was too high.
One side is a burr with swaged up metal around the hole. The other side looks heavier. There are reamer marks in the barrel. The burrs and swaged area should be flat (on the same plane) with existing rifling profile. It's a bit of a mediocre barrel. Where the gas port is with respect to rifling is a non issue for me..as long as no burr or swaged up metal are present, the bullet just slides on by with its engraved rifling profile, no copper flowing into the gas port on a millionth of a second, when the pressure is from behind and subsiding at this point in the barrel the bullet having long been engraved, there is no force pushing it in the hole...but a friction force will rub off copper and rough perpendicular surfaces will rub metal off copper faster.
So if swaged metal is present when the barrel is returned, there are several things to do, if you have the tools and capabilities. Measure the exact diameter of the existing gas port. Number drill set handy here and / or gauge pins. Take a good quality, American made Sharp drill one size larger, and drill out the gas port in your Bridgeport mill, easy to set up perfectly centered and perpendicular to the spindle, add a good dark heavy cutting oil, go slowly with feed, maybe 900 rpm, put a light on it, see the drill just break through a little past fill diameter the point in the rifle bore but away from the opposite side. This cleans up the swaged metal. Now make a lap and lap the barrel. I made a fixture for this. Paying attention to the gas port, and the throat where the bullet enters the rifling...go very little at the muzzle. A slight taper, tight at the muzzle .0001" I believe to be beneficial. Do not want it the reverse.
So you can just lap without drill the gas port area but I always end up enlarging them anyway. I've had to return a Wilson Combat barrel for a new one ...got the run around until I sent the pictures of tbe bore, they almost made it to the 30 day non returnable date. One guy was kind of a jerk, but another stepped in and was customer friendly, and got it done. So I still buy barrels from them. I've ordered quite a few barrels from them, they are kinda middle of the road quality, but most shoot decent, to surprisingly good, but I tend to lap them out and open gas ports, and add an adjustable gas block.
 
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Yeah, definitely don't have tooling for that here. I've resisted it over the years, because it always feels a bit dishonest, but I have a couple shooting buddies that will buy 4-6 barrels from shop(s) with a good return policy pick out the best looking one and return the rest. It seems like the way quality control is going that may be the best policy these days, especially coupled with an extremely limited 30 day return policy.

After hassling with a JP supermatch barrel that wouldn't shoot and JP could not fix/repair/replace as they no longer make 224 barrels, and now this one, it might just be time to give up on 224.
 
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Interesting, I wonder how it handles rifling where the surface isn't even. You'd think if it was that easy barrel makers would be using it, then again they know 99.99% of their purchasers don't own a bore scope and will never know.
 
ToddM said:
Interesting, I wonder how it handles rifling where the surface isn't even. You'd think if it was that easy barrel makers would be using it, then again they know 99.99% of their purchasers don't own a bore scope and will never know.
Click to expand...
There are a few different types. The hole shouldn't be through a land. I know the way it's done on button AR barrels it can't be avoided but those barrels should be tossed to the side. A hole going halfway through a land isn't a big deal but if you look at your photo on the lower side you will see the shape of the land left it like a wedge/knife edge, when the bullet passes by it will shave copper from the bullet.
You have a scope, watch it after you shoot, I'd put money on that point dragging copper from the bullet and fouling all the way to the muzzle.
 
Constructor said:
The gas port hole hit dead center of the land, IMO that will always drag copper off the bullets and cause copper fouling from the port to the muzzle.
Click to expand...
Dead center of the land or groove? Ain't happening, unless by accident. None of my high dollar proof barrels are dead center of either. All tend to strattle both a bit. Reason is production, the gas port is drilled last in a fixture to line up with the pin in the barrel extension. The gas port has to be a certain distance down the barrel regardless of where the rifling twist is at with respect to it , and the headspace is already set with the barrel extension, and the gas port must be centered and aligned with the pin in the barrel extension. It could be done with optics and CMM, and computer programming, but that would make headspacing much more difficult. Much to costly for a production item like a rifle barrel. Then changing rifling twist would be added to the mix...or gain twist rifling...all that would take some costly machines and talented employees. Why do that when you can hire a minimum wage guy, build a fixture and an old used milling machine. That's probably why we also have rough drilled and sometimes off center gas port holes. Economics and profit.
I have one AR 223 barrel in the $550 area with a ugly gas port hole, which I "mostly" repaired, still ugly in the borescope but flat to the surrounding rifling. The rest of the barrel is beautifully hand lapped, its shot 12 rds into .59" with the load it likes.
 
45-90 said:
Dead center of the land or groove? Ain't happening, unless by accident. None of my high dollar proof barrels are dead center of either. All tend to strattle both a bit. Reason is production, the gas port is drilled last in a fixture to line up with the pin in the barrel extension. The gas port has to be a certain distance down the barrel regardless of where the rifling twist is at with respect to it , and the headspace is already set with the barrel extension, and the gas port must be centered and aligned with the pin in the barrel extension. It could be done with optics and CMM, and computer programming, but that would make headspacing much more difficult. Much to costly for a production item like a rifle barrel. Then changing rifling twist would be added to the mix...or gain twist rifling...all that would take some costly machines and talented employees. Why do that when you can hire a minimum wage guy, build a fixture and an old used milling machine. That's probably why we also have rough drilled and sometimes off center gas port holes. Economics and profit.
I have one AR 223 barrel in the $550 area with a ugly gas port hole, which I "mostly" repaired, still ugly in the borescope but flat to the surrounding rifling. The rest of the barrel is beautifully hand lapped, its shot 12 rds into .59" with the load it likes.
Click to expand...
You are incorrect.
 
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45-90 said:
Dead center of the land or groove? Ain't happening, unless by accident. None of my high dollar proof barrels are dead center of either. All tend to strattle both a bit. Reason is production, the gas port is drilled last in a fixture to line up with the pin in the barrel extension. The gas port has to be a certain distance down the barrel regardless of where the rifling twist is at with respect to it , and the headspace is already set with the barrel extension, and the gas port must be centered and aligned with the pin in the barrel extension. It could be done with optics and CMM, and computer programming, but that would make headspacing much more difficult. Much to costly for a production item like a rifle barrel. Then changing rifling twist would be added to the mix...or gain twist rifling...all that would take some costly machines and talented employees. Why do that when you can hire a minimum wage guy, build a fixture and an old used milling machine. That's probably why we also have rough drilled and sometimes off center gas port holes. Economics and profit.
I have one AR 223 barrel in the $550 area with a ugly gas port hole, which I "mostly" repaired, still ugly in the borescope but flat to the surrounding rifling. The rest of the barrel is beautifully hand lapped, its shot 12 rds into .59" with the load it likes.
Click to expand...
Look at the photo the gas port(# 4 in the first post)it cut all the way through the land. Yeah, I've drilled around 75000 gas ports in the last 14 years. I know it can't be controlled on a button barrel but the maker can control what he ships out the door.
 
ToddM said:
Yeah, definitely don't have tooling for that here. I've resisted it over the years, because it always feels a bit dishonest, but I have a couple shooting buddies that will buy 4-6 barrels from shop(s) with a good return policy pick out the best looking one and return the rest. It seems like the way quality control is going that may be the best policy these days, especially coupled with an extremely limited 30 day return policy.

After hassling with a JP supermatch barrel that wouldn't shoot and JP could not fix/repair/replace as they no longer make 224 barrels, and now this one, it might just be time to give up on 224.
Click to expand...
Yes, said to say I've heard of that policy with competitive shooters like 10 barrels at a time. And the returned ones are resold to the average guy...I find too much poor quality in our shooting manufacturers these days, even with the so-called premium manufacturers.
 
45-90 said:
Dead center of the land or groove? Ain't happening, unless by accident. None of my high dollar proof barrels are dead center of either. All tend to strattle both a bit. Reason is production, the gas port is drilled last in a fixture to line up with the pin in the barrel extension. The gas port has to be a certain distance down the barrel regardless of where the rifling twist is at with respect to it , and the headspace is already set with the barrel extension, and the gas port must be centered and aligned with the pin in the barrel extension. It could be done with optics and CMM, and computer programming, but that would make headspacing much more difficult. Much to costly for a production item like a rifle barrel. Then changing rifling twist would be added to the mix...or gain twist rifling...all that would take some costly machines and talented employees. Why do that when you can hire a minimum wage guy, build a fixture and an old used milling machine. That's probably why we also have rough drilled and sometimes off center gas port holes. Economics and profit.
I have one AR 223 barrel in the $550 area with a ugly gas port hole, which I "mostly" repaired, still ugly in the borescope but flat to the surrounding rifling. The rest of the barrel is beautifully hand lapped, its shot 12 rds into .59" with the load it likes.
Click to expand...

First off Proof Research Barrels may be High dollar but they are far from High Quality. Every custom barrel I order from CLE has the gas port timed and drilled dead center in a groove no matter the gas length, so it has nothing to do with luck. It is and can be done, thats why I only buy from CLE.
 
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Constructor said:
They make a tool to remove burrs on a hidden hole. https://ezburr.com/product/micro-series-hss/
Click to expand...
That's old school internal deburring tools for production purposes, not precision, used those like 40 yrs ago, in production of zirconium guide tunes, they tend to over and under champher, and deburr not a precision tool. Then went to hand deburring internally.
Their tool diameters probably do not go down to like .086" or less for pistol ports.
They are spring loaded, so ya never get the exact same chamber twice, how long you dwell pulling back, the rpm used, angle on the tool enrty and retract.. They would gouge out too much metal, especially if hitting the lands and make the problem much worse.
 
45-90 said:
That's old school internal deburring tools for production purposes, not precision, used those like 40 yrs ago, in production of zirconium guide tunes, they tend to over and under champher, and deburr not a precision tool. Then went to hand deburring internally.
Their tool diameters probably do not go down to like .086" or less for pistol ports.
They are spring loaded, so ya never get the exact same chamber twice, how long you dwell pulling back, the rpm used, angle on the tool enrty and retract.. They would gouge out too much metal, especially if hitting the lands and make the problem much worse.
Click to expand...
You really should read slower and research before posting.
 
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