Noveske quality.

[Sebben]

I have read and heard a few things as of late of Noveske Rifleworks quality slipping recently. Does this have any merit? I really hope it doesn't hold weight. I have been a huge fan of john's work and don't want to see his company sacrificing quality for quantity.

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[ZombieMonkey]

Nothing that I have seen or heard of as of late, seems to be business as usual from the products I've handled.

 

[Mil.Dot]

I can't say for sure, but I have had to send back a keymod rail for being out of spec and on a second order, they left out an item. The first item was replaced when they came back in stock . . . the second item was never replaced and I just gave up after several attempts because it was a cheap part.

I have a lot of Noveske, because they never let me down, but more recently, it seems my luck (and ability to contact them) has run out.

If a vender has what you want in stock, there probably shouldn't be anything to worry about. If you have to try to follow up with Noveske directly, my recent experience has been less than stellar (and again, I have more Noveske rifles than I care to admit, so I am not looking to bash anyone).

 

[2ndamendfan]

I guess I would say prove it. Someone said that someone said that they heard something happened usually means it didn't happen.

 

[Sebben]

Rumors have some truth to them though. They don't just pop out of thin air. They may be exaggerated but still hold some merit to them. I'm just wondering what others are experiencing first hand to possibly clear the air.

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[2ndamendfan]

Oh don't get me wrong I agree, but I would need proof. While I was typing Mil.Dot posted, Had he posted just a couple minutes earlier I probably would have not posted. He gave first hand experience.

 

[66427vette]

Might be to busy making spoons and t-shirts to focus on guns.

 

[Sebben]

I know they have been swamped with business but they have gotten back with me when they can. Customer service is slow but not non existent like some other companies.

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[Sebben]

I just hope I'm not standing behind a company and investing in their products just to get burned like I did with POF.

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[CompletelyFUBAR]

I bought a gen 1 stripped lower about two months ago. It is not as nice as my gen 2 lower. It has a couple beveled places that should have been touched up. I paid extra for a non-chainsaw lower. I don't know if mine just slipped through quality control or if they are slacking on quality. That's just my latest experience.

 

[jakhamr81]

Noveske went through some growing pains during the transition period after John's unfortunate death. I do not know for sure who is running the company now. Communication, as mentioned earlier has been but or miss; even for vendors. Unfortunately, some items that were not up to par have slipped through the cracks. Anything that I have identified as flawed I have sent back and had no problems getting replacements. I'm talking maybe out if 500 products bought, I may have found a problem with one of two items.

Noveske has of lately been getting out orders that I had given up on, even items they have discontinued. I don't think they have had any more problems than any of the other manufacturers that were trying to keep up with the demands last year. I would not worry about their quality. I'm sure the rumors were started by some of the safe queen bandits over on arfcom that had scratches on their shell deflectors and went straight to the forums rather than to the vendor to get a problem corrected.

 

[Cobracutter]

High end companies do not sell blems/seconds.

Does Prada or Gucci sell their defective products at discount? Does KAC , LMT or GAP sell second rate guns at a discount?

Noveske has REAL QC issues. They try to pump out as much product as possible, knowing it will sell on name alone. They cut corners and defective product goes out. This would almost be understandble if they were a bargin bin outfit and their prices were not among the highest in the industry. Instead of selling those defective/blem lowers , they should be destroyed. It does nothing but hurt their brand and let everyone know that profit maximization is more important that quality to them. Wise companies understand than high quality sells itself.

There were not this bad before John Died. There is litterly nothing they make, than can not be found elsewhere cheaper, lighter or more effective. You are paying for the name.

 

[samnev]

With the rumors going around about the decrease in quality, weather true or not, I am glad I got my 2 Noveske's long before John died.

 

[Cobracutter]

Brand new Afgan..........this is all you need to know.

Noveske Afghan arrived...Not sure what to think. - AR15.COM

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I've never understood the noveske nutswingage. My buddy bought one of their uppers years ago based on reviews of great accuracy. We couldn't get it to shoot tighter than 2.5moa with any factory match ammo. I later bought one because it was a close out for a screaming deal and it was the same the same story but shot worse.

The last noveske product I purchased was a gen 2 lower. The hole for the bolt catch roll pin and safety detent were so tight and out of spec they wouldn't go in. The slot cut for magazine release was also extremely tight and out of spec. This was with a DD parts kit that was perfectly in spec and I also tried stag parts and couldn't get them to go. Luckily I had a bunch of scraps from PSA parts people brought me to use in their lowers that I finally found some parts sloppy enough to go in.

I no longer even bother with anything but Stag, LMT, or KAC. Yes I put Stags quality with LMT and KAC, they are that good and consistent. If CMT/Stag came out with their own badass tacticool entity getting rid of the deer roll mark and putting out a line of AR's with all the features they could sell premium top tier $2000+ rifles all day.

 

[Cobracutter]

Me neither. They offer nothing unique or any features that set them apart. Atleast with LMT you get the mono rail, 2 stage and QC barrel. With KAC, you get ambi lower, tuned gas system, KAC Trigger, E3 bolt, ect. Both of them are cheaper than noveske, and both of them blow noveske out of the water in features , function and QC. I have yet to see a bad LMT or KAC rifle come from the factory. They also don't sell blems or other bullshit that waters their brand down.

CMT is my go to as well. If I am building guns, I use their parts unless its something specialized. For a long time, and to this day, they make the parts in many other guns. They are one of the few unsung companies that have been keeping the AR wheel turning for the last 10-15 years. Their bolts/bcg's are every bit as good as BCM/DD at a much more reasonable price point. In fact, I would be be suprised to find out they are the same.

 

[BCP]

I've never understood the noveske nutswingage.

Me neither. 450 for a chrome lined barrel with a little 30buck gasblock? I wasn't born yesterday.

People can buy what makes em happy though.

 

[Sebben]

Is there any way we can fix this problem before there is unfixable damage to their reputation and quality. I dont want to see johns company go down like this and I don't think he would be very happy.

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[redneckbmxer24]

I've had problems with noveske products for 5+ years, IMO they were overrated from the get g.

 

[Sebben]

What were your problems?

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[Sebben]

I know that the stainless barrels are pacnor. And the carbon barrels are FN M249 blanks cut to AR profile.

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[DWood]

There is a thread on another forum that has multiple examples of lower receivers that were sold as first quality at $250 and have numerous manufacturing defects. Supposedly, Noveske is making it right.

 

[Sebben]

As long as they are fixing the QC issues with little to no hassle I don't see a problem. Seems to be just the lowers with the problems from everything I've read.

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[Bradu]

I bought my Noveske before John passed away and couldn't be happier. It feels better than any other ar that I have handled and shoots great.

 

[Cobracutter]

Is there any way we can fix this problem before there is unfixable damage to their reputation and quality. I dont want to see johns company go down like this and I don't think he would be very happy.

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Who is this we? You are acting like the are some diety........they are nothing but a boutique AR company who were able to get idiots to pay a premium for no tangible benefit.

 

[Cobracutter]

I know that the stainless barrels are pacnor. And the carbon barrels are FN M249 blanks cut to AR profile.

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So, there are 20 other quality blank companies out there and even more companies than finish/ream them to just as high quality. Almost everyone is also cheaper, and in stock.

The m249 blank is marketing bullshit. Who gives a fuck what the blank is cut from, all that matters is the steel (CMV which is standard now), the cutting/finishing (which is not hard), and the QC (which for a $400-800 barrel, should be fucking perfect)

 

[Cobracutter]

As long as they are fixing the QC issues with little to no hassle I don't see a problem. Seems to be just the lowers with the problems from everything I've read.

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Guns/Parts that sell at that price point, should NEVER be that bad. If there is a lack of QC and attention to detail there, who knows what other corners or half assery was done on the actual functioning components........like ones that endure 50K psi every trigger pull.

 

[Bradu]

Regardless, I'm a happy idiot with a cookie cutter rifle.

 

[Ballista One]

I know that the stainless barrels are pacnor. And the carbon barrels are FN M249 blanks cut to AR profile.

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You don't know any such thing, period, full stop. I'm here to tell you that this is something that Noveske never said and only Jesus himself knows how it got started. Accurately fact check and source it or retract your statement.

 

[Cobracutter]

Regardless, I'm a happy idiot with a cookie cutter rifle.

ignorance is bliss

 

[Sebben]

You don't know any such thing, period, full stop. I'm here to tell you that this is something that Noveske never said and only Jesus himself knows how it got started. Accurately fact check and source it or retract your statement.

Fact #1 go to pacnors site and select AR barrels. It redirects you to noveske's barrels page.

Fact #2 read any description where the carbon barrels are sold. Case in point. https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2917
If you want to change it write them an angry email I'm sure they will change it for you.

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[Sebben]

[MENTION=49428]Ballista One[/MENTION]. Spikes tactical barrels are the same thing as the noveske carbon except for the switch block and contour. Same FN 5.56 mandrel they are hammered on as guess what... the M249 saw with machine gun spec chrome lining. http://www.spikestactical.com/st-fn-cold-hammer-forged-145-midlength-barrel-556-p-829.html guess spikes makes stuff up to.. this stuff isn't witchcraft or rocket surgery.

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[Bradu]

Brand new Afgan..........this is all you need to know.

Noveske Afghan arrived...Not sure what to think. - AR15.COM

FUnny how the little blems on the Noveske are made out to be a big deal here but when someone cries about the way the skins line up on an AI they get made fun of. How about the finish on the AI bolt shroud not being perfect or the barrel not being centered in the handguard on an AIAX but the common response is "it's a purpose built rifle so who cares".

I'm not sure why you come off as pissed off at the world with all of your posts on here nor do I care but it's comical at best. You really should consider some midol because life is too short to be has miserable as you appear.

 

[Sebben]

Remington has problems with firearms discharging unexpectedly and the threads on barrels not being concentric to the bore causing baffle strikes In suppressors. But acceptable for the amount of production they do.

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[Ballista One]

Fact #1 go to pacnors site and select AR barrels. It redirects you to noveske's barrels page.

Fact #2 read any description where the carbon barrels are sold. Case in point. https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2917
If you want to change it write them an angry email I'm sure they will change it for you.

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[MENTION=49428]Ballista One[/MENTION]. Spikes tactical barrels are the same thing as the noveske carbon except for the switch block and contour. Same FN 5.56 mandrel they are hammered on as guess what... the M249 saw with machine gun spec chrome lining. ST- FN Cold Hammer Forged 14.5 Mid-Length Barrel (5.56) [SB51406-ML] - $289.95 : Spikes Tactical guess spikes makes stuff up to.. this stuff isn't witchcraft or rocket surgery.

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You go right on believing that nonsense but don't think for minute you'll get a pass from me. Your exactly the type of person I avoid at all costs. You've earned a place on my ignore list.

 

[Cobracutter]

FUnny how the little blems on the Noveske are made out to be a big deal here but when someone cries about the way the skins line up on an AI they get made fun of. How about the finish on the AI bolt shroud not being perfect or the barrel not being centered in the handguard on an AIAX but the common response is "it's a purpose built rifle so who cares".

I'm not sure why you come off as pissed off at the world with all of your posts on here nor do I care but it's comical at best. You really should consider some midol because life is too short to be has miserable as you appear.

Funny how a rifle that costs $3K should have zero flaws and be perfect, especially when ones that cost 1/3 to 1/2 do. Poor QC is Poor QC. If what you can see is fucked up how do you know what you cant see isint fucked up?

Why are you making excuses for unacceptable products? People don't buy noveske's for performance as you can get the same thing for 1/3 of the price. So they must be paying for fit, finish and QC.....

 

[BCP]

They're hammer forged like everyone else' carbine barrels are only for 50-150% more money than everyone else' is selling them for. I'm not saying they're bad barrels just trying to illustrate one way which their stuff is just out of the park overpriced IMHO.

 

[Bradu]

Funny how a rifle that costs $3K should have zero flaws and be perfect, especially when ones that cost 1/3 to 1/2 do. Poor QC is Poor QC. If what you can see is fucked up how do you know what you cant see isint fucked up?

Why are you making excuses for unacceptable products? People don't buy noveske's for performance as you can get the same thing for 1/3 of the price. So they must be paying for fit, finish and QC.....

I didn't pay 3k for mine brand new so not sure where that number came from. Fit and finish on mine is excellent, trigger is a crisp 4 pounds and it's accurate, what more should I expect? Btw, it's a 6.8spc and I haven't had a single issue with feeding or ejecting but I can keep making excuses lol. I still want to know why it's acceptable for people to make excuses for AI especially with their prices?

 

[Sebben]

You might not get an answer for that question. But what you might get is ignored when presented with facts lol.

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[Cobracutter]

I didn't pay 3k for mine brand new so not sure where that number came from. Fit and finish on mine is excellent, trigger is a crisp 4 pounds and it's accurate, what more should I expect? Btw, it's a 6.8spc and I haven't had a single issue with feeding or ejecting but I can keep making excuses lol. I still want to know why it's acceptable for people to make excuses for AI especially with their prices?

So if you got a good gun and 99 other people got a lemon, would you still defend it? ONE GUN MEANS NOTHING. There were plenty of happy pinto owners out there despite it being a colossal piece of shit. Ownership doesn't not equal competence.

Let me say that again, because its a common issue around here people cant seem to wrap their heads around ONE GUN MEANS NOTHING WHEN THOUSANDS ARE PRODUCED.

IS anyone talking about AI here?

 

[Sebben]

He's bringing up an example and a valid point with AI. that being said Noveske has a stellar track record and is held in high regards along side BCM, Daniel defense, LMT, etc. I'm sure all of these companies have an RMA department. No one is perfect. Even Ferrari have defects from time to time. This isn't a Noveske bashing thread. The company and the people that work there have had their grit tested with incredible order volume and the passing of its owner john. As long as the defects are minor and aren't rampant then its not as big of a problem as some are making it out to be.

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[Bradu]

I will be the first to admit that the quality is shit if/when Noveske only has a 1% satisfaction rate lol

 

[ZombieMonkey]

Since several of you want to go there, while I haven't personally seen any issues with recent Noveske products, the ones that have been posted up on here are inexcusable. They should have NEVER gotten past QC, especially with the price Noveske wants for things. Me personally, I don't mind buying a boutique gun as long as it runs reliably, but it better have some damn good fit or finish.

Most Noveske products are overpriced for what they are, no question about it. I can stomach the price of a barrel from LMT for my MRP only because if I didn't purchase it from them I'd have to have someone else make the proper cut for it to work. There is nothing special about the Noveske barrel to warrant the price. Sorry, there's no way you can defend that.

Nobody brought AI into this thread and to compare AI to Noveske is laughable at best. Sure, I would love the price of an AI to be cheaper, but there's a whole hell of a lot more that goes into an AI than an AR. It's an apples to oranges kind of comparison. Everyone and their mom makes AR parts these days and of reasonably good quality.

 

[Bradu]

Why is it an apples to oranges comparison? There is talk about how rifles that cost $3k shouldn't have flaws but when I mention an AIAX barrel not being centered in the forearm it's ignored. That rifle is twice the price so what's the excuse there? For the record I have an AI and it's one of my favorite rifles.

 

[Cobracutter]

He's bringing up an example and a valid point with AI. that being said Noveske has a stellar track record and is held in high regards along side BCM, Daniel defense, LMT, etc. I'm sure all of these companies have an RMA department. No one is perfect. Even Ferrari have defects from time to time. This isn't a Noveske bashing thread. The company and the people that work there have had their grit tested with incredible order volume and the passing of its owner john. As long as the defects are minor and aren't rampant then its not as big of a problem as some are making it out to be.

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Not really, BCM, DD and LMT are all fighting guns. Noveske is a boutique brand that had great fit and finish. Now they don't even have that going for them.

It is not one gun, its not even 10, its a pattern of lack of attention to detail and lack of QC. Only a complete moron would let a gun go out of the shop looking like that. The only other explaination is they dont care. Thats all u need to know.

 

[Armed Ferret]

Since there doesn't seem to be any quantity either, I wouldn't worry about them sacrificing quality for quantity.

I've been getting the "any day now" emails so long I stopped asking when the NSR 16.7 would be back. Eff 'em. There's plenty other stuff out there to use.

 

[BCP]

Why is it an apples to oranges comparison? There is talk about how rifles that cost $3k shouldn't have flaws but when I mention an AIAX barrel not being centered in the forearm it's ignored. That rifle is twice the price so what's the excuse there? For the record I have an AI and it's one of my favorite rifles.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Sebben]

Not really, BCM, DD and LMT are all fighting guns. Noveske is a boutique brand that had great fit and finish. Now they don't even have that going for them.

It is not one gun, its not even 10, its a pattern of lack of attention to detail and lack of QC. Only a complete moron would let a gun go out of the shop looking like that. The only other explaination is they dont care. Thats all u need to know.

"Fighting gun" what is a fighting gun and who are you fighting? I've got some FN M16A2s and colt M4s sitting in the arms room that are "fighting guns" and their quality is the mil spec standard.. which isn't saying much.. You're making what is actually a minor slip in QC out to be comparable to Olympic arms or POF.

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[ZombieMonkey]

Why is it an apples to oranges comparison? There is talk about how rifles that cost $3k shouldn't have flaws but when I mention an AIAX barrel not being centered in the forearm it's ignored. That rifle is twice the price so what's the excuse there? For the record I have an AI and it's one of my favorite rifles.

An AI is not a boutique gun. Yes, they are geared towards the military, LE, and serious target shooters looking for a factory rifle over a custom build. There's a whole lot more that goes into the QC process of an AI to ensure it meets a specified level of accuracy and reliability. To compare the QC, level of accuracy, robustness, or reliability of Noveske to that of AI is a joke.

I don't mind Noveske products, but for how many other alternatives there are in the AR market, you better be able to justify the added cost they want. I bought my LMT MRP for $1400 years ago and it runs great, what does the Noveske have to offer for an extra $1000 when they let something like that Afghan shown above out the door? The only reason why I have like Noveske products was they had good fit and finish, but to see some of the examples now that I've done some looking online is concerning to say the least.

 

[cal50]

The cost of an item is no guarantee of quality.

NASA had a bad "O" ring experience , we lost a stealth bomber due to mechanical failure , Rolex makes a dud once in a while, recalls on replacement prosthetic joints, etc.

While I agree that manufactured items should be uniform and exact the reality is the PPM defect rate is never zero. What separates a good company from a great company is how they handle defects and improve on their process.

You can have an AI rifle that may not look like much but makes one hole groups way down range every time or a different bolt rifle next to it that is really nice LOOKING but will not perform the same intended task.