Novice questions on dies

[bitter24]

Hey guys,

I know everyone has their own way of doing things and what equipment they use. Ive searched this site and others to try to educate myself first on this topic. Im sure some people will come back with this has been posted a million times before and ive read the ones i could find using the SH google search and all the sticky threads.

Okay with that disclaimer out of the way heres my simple question. I have reloaded shotgun shells before. Im looking to get into rifle reloading. With as many choices as there are which dies should I be looking to get? Competition dies with the micrometers adjustments on top or a "standard" set of dies. From what i read I dont need a 3 piece die yet the way it sounds. I will be loading for accuracy and playing around with loads to see which load I can get to shoot the best. i dont think it matters but in case it does I will be loading 300WSM for my pistol. And in the future looking to load .308 for a GAP then if I like reloading maybe get into 30-06 but for now ill be shooting FGMM out of that. I have a RCBS Master Reloading kit is what Ill be using for a press and such.

Also brands of dies it sounds like its a ford chevy thing but can anyone tell me with a reason why they feel a certain maker of dies is better then a different company. Please dont be bashing other companies just to bash.

Hope that is all the info you guys/gals needed to help me.

Thanks in advance Bitter

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Novice questions on dies

Bitter,

Good reasonable question. When I comes to precision reloading there's lot of opinions. Many guys like the bushing dies sets, like those from Redding. And they are an excellent choice.

I'm more an old school guy, and find I can make precision ammo with the more standard die types. Over the last two years, I've gone the more mix and match approach.

By mix and match, I buy single dies, not sets. It's a tad more expensive, but this way I get what I want.

For calibers I load I buy four dies:

Neck Sizer - Redding Neck Sizer around $30. or so

FL Sizer - RCBS X-Die FL sizer around $40. or so. The X die really works in reducing the need to trim.

Bullet Seater - RCBS Competition Seater Die around $70. or so. The only thing that makes it better than Redding or Forster of the same type, is the window. They all work the same, the window just makes seating easy.

Lee Factory Crimp Die - around $10. or so. I rarely use this one, but for some applications and compressed loads it's a great tool, and it's only $10.

In any event those are the parts I like the "best", but really any of the competition dies sets from RCBS, Redding or Forster will also serve you well.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Novice questions on dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bitter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also brands of dies it sounds like its a ford chevy thing but can anyone tell me with a reason why they feel a certain maker of dies is better then a different company. Please dont be bashing other companies just to bash.</div></div>

The micrometer head is a valuable asset on the bullet seater die and not so much on the sizing die.

I happen to like dies that hold the case concentric while sizing and seating. The Redding sliding sleave dies do this.

I happen to like bushing dies for neck (only) sizing, and to keep the body sizing die separate from the neck sizing die so each can be used independently (or more often only the neck sizer is used and the body die just sits awaiting cases that need the shoulder pushed back).

But, for the most part, a skilled reloader can produce highly accurate ammo with any set of dies, any press,.....

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Novice questions on dies

"..a skilled reloader can produce highly accurate ammo with any set of dies, any press,....."

Yep. Personal tastes/preferences aside, ALL our dies are fully capabile of quality work. The only ones with any effective design difference are Forster and Redding's comp sets and the difference then isn't aways certain and the difference isn't massive when they are. And only a skilled reloader shooting well developed loads in a high quality rifle will see any difference even from the best, most expensive dies anyway. I suggest your first buy less expensive dies and learn to wring the best performance out of them before getting excited about the more costly sets.

The price or looks of a die brand is no valid indicator of the 'precision' of it's interior dimensions but it does reflect the finished appearance of the die's exterior. How well any idividual die matches a given rifle's chamber is a crap shoot, it's not price or brand dependant at all.

The various 'micrometer' heads on dies add nothing automatic to the quality of the ammo produced, they are only moderate user aids.

 

[bitter24]

Re: Novice questions on dies

Thanks for all the info so far guys i appreciate it

 

[vman]

Re: Novice questions on dies

You can make accurate rounds with most dies really, unless they are faulty from factory which I have seen by the way.

For example, if you took the most expensive redding dies you could get and loaded up some rounds on a good press etc, and then check the rounds for run-out, you may just see a considerable amount there...

My point being brand names dont always guarantee the best.

Some of my best group ever were made when I used RCBS FL Die sets.

I have since moved to Forster dies and I really like them.

 

[Tomekeuro85]

Re: Novice questions on dies

I use the lee Collet neck sizer die for like $12... Has never let me down and I still get a consistent near half moa from my factory remington...

I could have bought the $130 die from this or that maker to neck size, but why? this one works just fine

 

[bitter24]

Re: Novice questions on dies

I just traded some of my stuff for some Redding FL dies. Hope they work. A few people told me to also get a neck size die and only neck size them for a few reloads, then Full length re size them. I assume this is all personal preference since I have read on here people going back and forth about the topic.

They way Im looking at it if the brass has been fired from my weapon then it is already expanded to the size of that chamber so I should only re size the neck for the bullet. That way the brass is basically form fitted to my weapon. It would seem if the brass fits in the chamber perfectly and less "movement" which is really fractions of a inch it would preform better.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Novice questions on dies

I use Redding and RCBS FL dies to bump the shoulder .001" on everything I load for.

That said, you should worry more about a proper annealing regimen than which brand of die works "best".......

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Novice questions on dies

Forster Bonanza. Best design for the price for me. Redding are good for advanced loaders though whether quality is worth the higher price is arguable. RCBS are okay but they are at times (the sizer) too long to allow for proper shoulder set back. I'm liking Lee's expander and sizer die but the bore is rough so I polish mine. Polish the expander balls in all of them to alleviate neck stretch.

Importantly, get this book: Handloading for Competition, by Glenn Zediker. Visit the website too. In 35 years of loading this is the best book I've seen on loading ammunition.

 

[tacdrver]

Re: Novice questions on dies

rcbs dies press scale dispenser... i bought a set of lees collet dies to save money and use them as a paper weight.... dont waist your time on cheap shit it will end up costing more in the end..

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Novice questions on dies

"i bought a set of lees collet dies to save money and use them as a paper weight.... dont waist your time on cheap shit it will end up costing more in the end.."

Goodness. In spite of the great success of countless others with Lee's collet neck dies, YOU couldn't get them to work as well as a simple set of 'push the case in, pull the case out' dies so you castigate the DIES?

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Novice questions on dies

I honestly can't shoot the difference between the cheapest available dies, and the most expensive dies available.

That being said, I prefer Hornady's die sets, for the sole reason of liking the floating bullet seating stem.

If your just starting, you would be better served by using your money for components, and other equipment rather than buying $$$$$$$$ dies.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Novice questions on dies

IMHO, YRMV etc... you can make good ammo with Lee RGB's. Any well cut full length resizer will serve you well.

The problem will be when you start trying to load to a specific length that is NOT OAL. When you begin to load to the ogive length for maximum consistency or load different types of boolets the use of a micrometer die will pay for itself in the reduction of your frustration as well as time.

Which micrometer die you ask, I like Fortser Ultra's, Redding's are nice as are the RCBS ones all of them have a floating chamber of one design or the other.

.02 for the pot

Cheers,

Doc

 

[doubled]

Re: Novice questions on dies

RCBS competition dies have been working well for me

 

[fw707]

Re: Novice questions on dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The various 'micrometer' heads on dies add nothing automatic to the quality of the ammo produced, they are only moderate user aids. </div></div>

The micrometer heads are handy if you are going to be seating several different bullets in the same die. You can note the setting for each bullet and go back to it easily. If you're going to load the same bullet all the time you'll never use it.
I've got one .243 Forster micrometer die set, and all the rest are Forster "benchrest" 2 die sets. They all work fine for me.

I think you'd need a really accurate rifle to determine a difference in most of the quality dies available.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Novice questions on dies

Forster. And they will custom ream the FL dies for your case necks for $16. JMHO

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Novice questions on dies

Complex premium dies make sense for folks whose reloading and shooting skills justfy them. I can say with complete certainty, after several decades of trying, that I ain't one of 'em.

I've had enough time to compare, and I did, and my results tell me that the basic 2-die F/L sets are more cost- and time effective.

I've tried performing to BR loading and shooting standards, and while they have their place, I don't live or shoot there.

I decided eventually that handloading was a means to a goal. If you want to shoot, you need ammo, and it needs to be something you over which you can exercise reasonable control.

But allowing it to become an obsession is not exercising reasonable conrol, it's just an obsession. If it keeps me from getting to the range as soon as is reasonably possible, it's off the menu.

My accuracy goals are based on using SAAMI chambers, and getting 1/2MOA at shorter distances.

My concessions to accuracy are individually weighed charges, reamed flash holes, and reasonable measures at managing neck tension; and I can do all this with a regular 2-die set. It's not as much about what you use as it is about how you use it.

For me, getting the most out of die is not about setting values to numeric settings (which may or may not be accurate and consistent), but about tweaking adjustments until the actual output is what I seek. The first way says it's right, but the latter is demonstrable.

Greg

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Novice questions on dies

" It's not as much about what you use as it is about how you use it."

And that's the truth. I get amused by those who say, "I use...." as if that means it's the best way to go. Fact is, most dies are capabile of much better ammo than their owners are capabile of producing.

Accurate ammo comes from the reloaders skills, not automaticlly by the color of the box his tools came in. That's why I virtually NEVER mention what I use. Fact is, I actually use different dies (and presses, etc) for different jobs and each was selected from a variety of brands by the results each one produces. There just isn't enough consistant difference between brands to make any consistant difference in the finished ammo!

 

[bitter24]

Re: Novice questions on dies

Thanks for all the good info guys! Ill keep you up dated as I venture through this process and get my reloading process going