Observations: SH4, PST G2, NXS

Butleroutdoors

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Yesterday went to SpearPoint Ranch to stretch out our shooting distances. I was able to compare optical quality at 1400 yd, 1760 yd and 1975 yd between my Vortex PST G2 5x25 FFP my buddies Arken SH 6x24 FFP and his NightForce NXS 5.5x22 SFP.

My observations (my opinion only) of all 3 scopes at 22x:
SH4 clairity, crispness and light at 1400 was on close to the PST. When going out to a mile and then on to 1975 the PST had a slight edge, but neither being great but usable

On the NF compared to the two it was better at 1975 and more noticeable at 1400.

On 15x SH4 and PST fairly close at those distances, with PST slightly better.

Just looking at optical quality, PST and SH4 are good enough for 1400 yd and occasional pop out to 1 mile using 15x-18x

Looking forward one day to comparing to MK5, Toric, Cronus, XTR3 and others in this caterogy to see how optics quality increases
 
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FuhQ

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    So, what you're saying is, in your eyes, the Arken SH4 Gen2 ($450) does actually closely compare to a scope over twice the price ($999)?

    Because this was my experience, as well. Comparing it side-by-side with my Viper HS and Viper HS-T scopes (which have the same Philippines glass as the PST & PST Gen2), the Arken SH4 glass was noticeably brighter overall, which means greater light transmission. The clarity seemed noticeably sharper, as well.

    I'm curious to see your thoughts when comparing the other scopes.


    Here's a few crappy pictures I took with my iphone trying to look through the Arken SH-4. I'll try to do a comparison next time with one of my HS-T scopes at the same magnification settings, on the same day, so it shows the same lighting conditions, and it's as fair of a comparison as possible.

    In these I'm focused on the 200 yard target at the local range. But note, that the lighting & weather conditions were not ideal that day, the camera setup was not ideal, and the reticle is straight in the scope, but the camera was not, so it makes the reticle look off-center in the pictures.

    I will try to get a better camera setup and get some better pictures comparing the 2. When looking through the SH4 in person, it's not blurry around the edges like it shows in the last 2 pictures. That was just some weird shadow effects of the phone camera trying to auto-focus.

    Arken SH4 Gen2

    6x

    CF4F7236-3290-43E8-ADAE-5FEC33EA89CB.jpeg


    16x

    78A30FC1-A06F-4C62-9CF1-4E8F09AD0D77.jpeg


    24x

    0699C695-E498-4951-AF8C-C19614E5DACD.jpeg
     
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    Butleroutdoors

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    Hello FuhQ

    Yes, that was our conclusion as well. Of course that was based upon just optic clarity, can’t speak to repeatability and zero hold and it was to our eyes on that day/conditions

    I did forget to mention in my OP that I painted 4 ~ 2’ strips of white paint on the 3” pipe frame that was holding the 1 mile target. The SH4 was not able to pickup this up and the PST effectively didn’t either (I think my mind superimposed it). The NXS did pick it up.

    At a mile and 1975 the the images at 22x on SH4 and PST where very blurred and blended. Better on 15x

    Interesting to see how the EP4 would preform as well and the other high tier II scopes I mentioned.
     

    Butleroutdoors

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    Those are good pictures, Thank you.

    Also did a cursory look with my buddy’s Strike Eagle 5x25 at 1400 and the image was not as good as the PST or SH4.

    I have a HST 4x16 and I think you are spot on. I didn’t bring it that day but using it at 1000 w/ 22-250 it performed very well optical at that specific distance.

    Seems like these class of scopes are fine for up to 1200-1300 but past that they really start to degrade. Since I do my yearly Mecca to Spearpoint for Mile + the cost/benefit on these scope is fine. But I’m am looking to upgrade in the short future as we are starting to push past 1 mile (range goes to 2200 yd)
     

    beetroot

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    So, what you're saying is, in your eyes, the Arken SH4 Gen2 ($450) does actually closely compare to a scope over twice the price ($999)?

    Because this was my experience, as well. Comparing it side-by-side with my Viper HS and Viper HS-T scopes (which have the same Philippines glass as the PST & PST Gen2), the Arken SH4 glass was noticeably brighter overall, which means greater light transmission. The clarity seemed noticeably sharper, as well.

    I'm curious to see your thoughts when comparing the other scopes.


    Here's a few crappy pictures I took with my iphone trying to look through the Arken SH-4. I'll try to do a comparison next time with one of my HS-T scopes at the same magnification settings, on the same day, so it shows the same lighting conditions, and it's as fair of a comparison as possible.

    In these I'm focused on the 200 yard target at the local range. But note, that the lighting & weather conditions were not ideal that day, the camera setup was not ideal, and the reticle is straight in the scope, but the camera was not, so it makes the reticle look off-center in the pictures.

    I will try to get a better camera setup and get some better pictures comparing the 2. When looking through the SH4 in person, it's not blurry around the edges like it shows in the last 2 pictures. That was just some weird shadow effects of the phone camera trying to auto-focus.

    Arken SH4 Gen2

    6x

    View attachment 7717959

    16x

    View attachment 7717957

    24x

    View attachment 7717958
    The glass in the HST is the same as the PST Gen1 but not the Gen2.
    PST Gen2 glass is a huge improvement over the PST glass.

    The 4-16x45 HST I had was pretty terrible, I'm glad the Arken is greatly improved.
     
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    Steel head

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    The glass in the HST is the same as the PST Gen1 but not the Gen2.
    PST Gen2 glass is a huge improvement over the PST glass.

    The 4-16x45 HST I had was pretty terrible, I'm glad the Arken is greatly improved.
    Yea, HS-T and Gen 1 PST glass is usable but nothing special.
    The 4x 16 HS-T being the worst of them.
    G2 PST glass is definitely a bit better with NXS glass being even better.

    Cronus and Mk5 glass is definitely a noticeable improvement and TT and ZCO getting you a noticeable improvement again.

    At the Cronus, mk5 and Atacr level I’m plenty happy.
     

    Twistid

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    FuhQ

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    Where did you get the PSTII 5-25 was a $999 scope? It's been $700 and less for a long while now at various vendors https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-5-25x50-EBR-2C-MRAD-PST-5258.aspx

    I honestly don't care about cheaper Arken vs Vortex Scopes but atleast try to be accurate with what you're saying.
    Might be cheaper at EuroOptic, but it's $999 at Cabelas... https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/vortex-viper-pst-gen-ii-ffp-rifle-scope

    And at Optics Planet... https://www.opticsplanet.com/v/843829103053-vortex-viper-pst-riflescope-5-25x50mm.html

    So, just because a couple different places on the internet decided to sell it cheaper, that means my information is not accurate? 🙄

    And they definitely might have stepped-up their glass quality with the Gen2 series, but they're still made in the Philippines, just like all the Viper series scopes. And I'm not hating, because I own more Vortex Viper series scopes than anything else.
     

    Twistid

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    It's not accurate, it's pretty clear you seem to be shilling with selecting which information you're sharing (intentionally quoting higher prices when making price comparisons) and then insinuating Vortex scopes with lesser glass was equal to the PST2 and then saying "might have stepped up" when corrected. If you're going to shill just be up front about it.
     

    FuhQ

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    It's not accurate, it's pretty clear you seem to be shilling with selecting which information you're sharing (intentionally quoting higher prices when making price comparisons) and then insinuating Vortex scopes with lesser glass was equal to the PST2 and then saying "might have stepped up" when corrected. If you're going to shill just be up front about it.
    Shilling? 🤣😂🤣

    Shilling has become the new "racist"... It means absolutely nothing because everyone is accusing everyone of it simply because they don't agree with what the other is saying. Or they're scared that something cheaper might be as good as something more expensive, and that might somehow hurt their expensive item's resale values. It's so sad what the internet has become. The once-greatest tool ever created for sharing knowledge and information and it's become nothing but social media, porn, cat memes, and people bitching at and hating each other because they don't agree with what the other one says. 🙄

    I am not sponsored by, supported by, work for, or shoot for ANY company. I buy my own shit with my own money. I tell it how my eyes see it. I have absolutely zero stake in what anyone else on earth buys...Nor could I care less. I want unbiased information out there, by people who have NO agenda. Accusing people you DON'T know, of things they didn't do, and trying to label them, is just as bad as those Karens out there getting people fired for saying something they didn't like. It's cancel-culture, and it's pathetic. Grow the fuck up.
     

    Butleroutdoors

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    Might be cheaper at EuroOptic, but it's $999 at Cabelas... https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/vortex-viper-pst-gen-ii-ffp-rifle-scope

    And at Optics Planet... https://www.opticsplanet.com/v/843829103053-vortex-viper-pst-riflescope-5-25x50mm.html

    So, just because a couple different places on the internet decided to sell it cheaper, that means my information is not accurate? 🙄

    And they definitely might have stepped-up their glass quality with the Gen2 series, but they're still made in the Philippines, just like all the Viper series scopes. And I'm not hating, because I own more Vortex Viper series scopes than anything else.
     

    Butleroutdoors

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    Yea, HS-T and Gen 1 PST glass is usable but nothing special.
    The 4x 16 HS-T being the worst of them.
    G2 PST glass is definitely a bit better with NXS glass being even better.

    Cronus and Mk5 glass is definitely a noticeable improvement and TT and ZCO getting you a noticeable improvement again.

    At the Cronus, mk5 and Atacr level I’m plenty happy.
    Steelhead (cool name BTW) , thank you for your comment,
    What is your viewpoint with Cronus & MK5 optical clarity compared to the PST G2?
    And then would you rate the NXS higher than the Cronus & MK 5? And the a ZCO and TT higher than all?
    Im interested in 1400 to 1 mile to 2200 yd optical clarity…
     

    Twistid

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    Shilling? 🤣😂🤣

    Shilling has become the new "racist"... It means absolutely nothing because everyone is accusing everyone of it simply because they don't agree with what the other is saying. Or they're scared that something cheaper might be as good as something more expensive, and that might somehow hurt their expensive item's resale values. It's so sad what the internet has become. The once-greatest tool ever created for sharing knowledge and information and it's become nothing but social media, porn, cat memes, and people bitching at and hating each other because they don't agree with what the other one says. 🙄

    I am not sponsored by, supported by, work for, or shoot for ANY company. I buy my own shit with my own money. I tell it how my eyes see it. I have absolutely zero stake in what anyone else on earth buys...Nor could I care less. I want unbiased information out there, by people who have NO agenda. Accusing people you DON'T know, of things they didn't do, and trying to label them, is just as bad as those Karens out there getting people fired for saying something they didn't like. It's cancel-culture, and it's pathetic. Grow the fuck up.
    Ah ok, so you weren't intentionally quoting higher prices to feed your "twice the cost" quote and then saying Viper HS, HS-T and PST glass is the same as PST2. Those things didn't actually happen, gotcha.

    This astroturf is really green isn't it 😉
     
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    FuhQ

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    Ah ok, so you weren't intentionally quoting higher prices to feed your "twice the cost" quote and then saying Viper HS, HS-T and PST glass is the same as PST2. Those things didn't actually happen, gotcha.

    This astroturf is really green isn't it 😉
    No, those were the first 2 places that google pulled up on my search. So I saw the same price and figured that was what they sell for on average. That seems to be the MAP, even though MSRP is higher, and some places are apparently selling them lower. Even at the sale price of $700, it's still over 1.5x the price.

    Whatever makes you happy, but List price for the PST Gen2 is $999. So I think comparing the LIST prices of each optic is a more fair comparison. The fact the SH4 sells for it's list price of $450 vs. the PST Gen2 being sold ON SALE for lower than list in some places, is not really an apples-to-apples comparison. Comparing list pricing of $450 vs. $999 is the most honest because that's what the manufacturer deems it's worth.

    This is just simply my opinion. You probably disagree, but this is how I see it.
     
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    Steel head

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    Steelhead (cool name BTW) , thank you for your comment,
    What is your viewpoint with Cronus & MK5 optical clarity compared to the PST G2?
    And then would you rate the NXS higher than the Cronus & MK 5? And the a ZCO and TT higher than all?
    Im interested in 1400 to 1 mile to 2200 yd optical clarity…
    Cronus is substantially better that PST2 and my very small bit of experience with Mk5 says it is as well.
    I’ve only looked through two NXS’s and they are pretty good, maybe just a bit below a Cronus.

    TT and ZCO are just amazing glass!
    like looking through a Kowa prominar spotter.
     
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    rangerlong

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    Where did you get the PSTII 5-25 was a $999 scope? It's been $700 and less for a long while now at various vendors https://www.eurooptic.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-5-25x50-EBR-2C-MRAD-PST-5258.aspx

    I honestly don't care about cheaper Arken vs Vortex Scopes but atleast try to be accurate with what you're saying.


    You’re looking at the older PST II with the EBR-2C reticle. Not everyone has them. Current models with the EBR-7C are still $999 everywhere, even eurooptic.

     

    FuhQ

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    You’re looking at the older PST II with the EBR-2C reticle. Not everyone has them. Current models with the EBR-7C are still $999 everywhere, even eurooptic.

    Appreciate the assist... 👍🏼 All the ones I saw were $999 and had the EBR-7C reticle everywhere else, other than the one he posted. That explains why it was so cheap.

    I get so tired of these clowns with agendas trying to push them. Why can't things just be what they are? If something competes with other things that cost exponentially more, or just the opposite, and something is not really worth what it costs, why is that so hard for folks to accept?

    Is it the fact they don't want to accept they got played by a marketing strategy, name brand, a legacy, jaded fond memories of grandeur, or peer pressure, so they feel the need to justify their purchase in their own mind, so they project their buyer's remorse onto everyone else?
     
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    supercorndogs

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    That comment is funny because it could be talking about all the knuckle heads who fell for all the fucktards shilling Arken.

    HST glass is hot garbage, PSTII glass is a little less garbage, and there is basically no data for tracking and reliability, or customer service on the Arekn. 6-24 and 5-25 aren't the same erector ratio, you have a 4x vs a 5x.

    Some of you guys are acting like this is first time we have ever seen this marketing bullshit, "just as good" before. Or maybe its just the first time you have seen it before. Or maybe you are a shill selling that message.

    I see a lot of scopes mentioned in these threads that don't belong in the same category. Cronus, Mk5, XTRIII. The PSTII and HST scopes are not even close to being in the same league. The Bushnell DMRII and LRTS are a pretty nice step up from the PSTII.
     
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    FuhQ

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    That comment is funny because it could be talking about all the knuckle heads who fell for all the fucktards shilling Arken.

    HST glass is hot garbage, PSTII glass is a little less garbage, and there is basically no data for tracking and reliability, or customer service on the Arekn. 6-24 and 5-25 aren't the same erector ratio, you have a 4x vs a 5x.

    Some of you guys are acting like this is first time we have ever seen this marketing bullshit, "just as good" before. Or maybe its just the first time you have seen it before. Or maybe you are a shill selling that message.

    I see a lot of scopes mentioned in these threads that don't belong in the same category. Cronus, Mk5, XTRIII. The PSTII and HST scopes are not even close to being in the same league. The Bushnell DMRII and LRTS are a pretty nice step up from the PSTII.
    So, what is your deal with hating Arken so much? Do you actually have any personal experience with one, or are you just hating on a company you've never even dealt with, seen, or handled one of their products? Because that's what it seems like.

    I have absolutely no stake in any company, I'm just curious why you hate them so much.
     

    beetroot

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    That comment is funny because it could be talking about all the knuckle heads who fell for all the fucktards shilling Arken.

    HST glass is hot garbage, PSTII glass is a little less garbage, and there is basically no data for tracking and reliability, or customer service on the Arekn. 6-24 and 5-25 aren't the same erector ratio, you have a 4x vs a 5x.

    Some of you guys are acting like this is first time we have ever seen this marketing bullshit, "just as good" before. Or maybe its just the first time you have seen it before. Or maybe you are a shill selling that message.

    I see a lot of scopes mentioned in these threads that don't belong in the same category. Cronus, Mk5, XTRIII. The PSTII and HST scopes are not even close to being in the same league. The Bushnell DMRII and LRTS are a pretty nice step up from the PSTII.

    Has tracking data for both the PST Gen 1 and Gen 2, both of which performed fairly well with only one of each falling (just) outside of the 2% error window.
    The HST and PST Gen 1 glass does leave a lot to be disired but there were different models that performed significantly better than others.
    Also pays to remember the HST and PST Gen 1 came out when most other scopes under $2000 still had mismatched MOA and MIL turrets/reticles and were SFP so a lot has changed since then.

    As far as reviews on Arken and other "ATACR killer" scopes, I just take them with a huge grain of salt.
    Unless the reviews come from someone who is well known on here, chances are they don't really know what they are talking about.

    I'm sure Arken scopes offer good value for money but saying they are ATACR good for 20% the price is stretching the truth just a tad.
     

    beetroot

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    So, what is your deal with hating Arken so much? Do you actually have any personal experience with one, or are you just hating on a company you've never even dealt with, seen, or handled one of their products? Because that's what it seems like.

    I have absolutely no stake in any company, I'm just curious why you hate them so much.
    Because ever since Arken scopes came on the scene, every month or so a new member comes along and claims they are as good as a scope costing 5x as much, usually not giving a particularly indepth review.
    There was also a bunch of blatant shilling of Arken products when they first came out, rumour is they still have a very good afilitated programme for guys who still want to shill their products so it's hard to take any Arken review seriously.
     
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    FuhQ

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    Because ever since Arken scopes came on the scene, every month or so a new member comes along and claims they are as good as a scope costing 5x as much, usually not giving a particularly indepth review.
    There was also a bunch of blatant shilling of Arken products when they first came out, rumour is they still have a very good afilitated programme for guys who still want to shill their products so it's hard to take any Arken review seriously.
    People "shilled" for Vortex when they first came out... Look at them now. Same with Nightforce, S&B, Swarovksi, Kahles, Kowa, the list goes on and on. Without people promoting products, those companies wouldn't still be in business.

    Promoting a product you like, or spent your hard-earned money on is different than shilling. And every time an Arken thread pops up, or someone mentions the name Arken, the thread turns into a shit-show from people with zero first-hand experience with them, simply because they want to be the first to harass someone for buying something. I just don't understand it.

    Are their REAL paid shills out there? Sure. I'm not one of them. And I doubt most of the folks on here are. They're probably just proud of their purchase and wanted to show it off, and then everyone starts berating and harassing them over it, like pistol-whipping a blind kid.
     

    supercorndogs

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    So, everyone who isn't trying to see who can suck Arken's marketing dick the hardest, hates them? I am honestly suspicious with your approach. You didn't address anything I said, but instead started beating a straw man.
    So, what is your deal with hating Arken so much? Do you actually have any personal experience with one, or are you just hating on a company you've never even dealt with, seen, or handled one of their products? Because that's what it seems like.

    I have absolutely no stake in any company, I'm just curious why you hate them so much.
    To your post above above, it takes more than one person to make a shit show. You could have just as easily scrolled by and let me have my opinion than wanting to argue about it. In fact you didn't argue about it. You made it personal, rather than talking about any points made. So spare us holier than thou diatribe.
     
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    FuhQ

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    So, everyone who isn't trying to see who can suck Arken's marketing dick the hardest, hates them? I am honestly suspicious with your approach. You didn't address anything I said, but instead started beating a straw man.

    To your post above above, it takes more than one person to make a shit show. You could have just as easily scrolled by and let me have my opinion than wanting to argue about it. In fact you didn't argue about it. You made it personal, rather than talking about any points made. So spare us holier than thou diatribe.
    No, your blatant harassment of Arken owners and continuous self-interjection into every Arken thread is making YOU look like the suspicious one with an agenda.

    Oh I could have easily kept scrolling, but you're not getting off the hook that easy... And now you're pretending to be the victim, after all the shit you've talked about Arken and those who own them, in EVERY Arken thread, or post that even mentions the word? With that logic, you must vote Democrat, too. HAHAHAHAHA!!!
     

    FuhQ

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    You know what... I'm not going to let the clowns screw this thread up, too, even though they're almost guaranteed to do that anyway...Even without my posts.

    My appolgies to the OP in advance for what's probably going to happen to his thread... Unfortunately, you're seeing first-hand, the snobbery that exists on forums in the firearms community. If you like your Arken, roll with it. I like mine. And their opinions of them aren't going to change that. 👍🏼
     
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    supercorndogs

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    You are the clown. I don't attack all Arken owners. I don't post in every Arken thread. I asked some questions, you dodged them. I stated my opinion as well as some facts and cast doubt on this stupid MK5, Cronus, XTRIII killer bullshit and you got all butt hurt about it. And start beating on that straw man again.

    I think though doth protest too much. Shill or no you sure are getting emotional about me posting my opinion. Why? If you have no agenda and only want truth?
    You know what... I'm not going to let the clowns screw this thread up, too, even though they're almost guaranteed to do that anyway...Even without my posts.

    My appolgies to the OP in advance for what's probably going to happen to his thread... Unfortunately, you're seeing first-hand, the snobbery that exists on forums in the firearms community. If you like your Arken, roll with it. I like mine. And their opinions of them aren't going to change that. 👍🏼
     
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    FuhQ

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    You are the clown. I don't attack all Arken owners. I don't post in every Arken thread. I asked some questions, you dodged them. I stated my opinion as well as some facts and cast doubt on this stupid MK5, Cronus, XTRIII killer bullshit and you got all butt hurt about it. And start beating on that straw man again.

    I think though doth protest too much. Shill or no you sure are getting emotional about me posting my opinion. Why? If you have no agenda and only want truth?
    Emotional??? 🤣 Not one bit. Just laughing at you.

    And yeah, you can go back to every Arken thread on this site, and you're dogging just like you are in this one. I've seen it.

    And you said I'm dodging questions... I haven't compared it to ANY of those scopes listed, that was SOMEONE ELSE. You're getting pissed that I'm not answering questions, because you're asking the wrong damn person. 🤣
     

    supercorndogs

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    Emotional??? 🤣 Not one bit. Just laughing at you.

    And yeah, you can go back to every Arken thread on this site, and you're dogging just like you are in this one. I've seen it.
    There are more Arekn reviews posted than any other scope. I couldn't keep up posting in all of them if I wanted to. You are full of shit.

    Most people drop their one range trip, and just opened the box opinions in the threads dedicated to the scopes they have. {For Arken that would be all the shill threads that were finally combined into one} They don't start a review thread every week to tell us. I mounted this up today, and looked out the back window with it, and I am pretty sure its going to give my ZCO a run for it money. This thing is amazing, can't wait to get to the range with it, its sooooo rugged and reliable, and the tracking is amazing. :ROFLMAO:

    Maybe don't get so emotionally invested in your gear, and you wont get so butt hurt if someone has a different opinion about it than you. Or wait, what exactly about my opinion did you disagree with? You never said, you just got all emotional and started talking shit. Now you are laughing. You having mood swings from pregnancy or menopause, or did the Midol kick in?
     
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    FuhQ

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    There are more Arekn reviews posted than any other scope. I couldn't keep up posting in all of them if I wanted to. You are full of shit.

    Most people drop their one range trip, and just opened the box opinions in the threads dedicated to the scopes they have. {For Arken that would be all the shill threads that were finally combined into one} They don't start a review thread every week to tell us. I mounted this up today, and looked out the back window with it, and I am pretty sure its going to give my ZCO a run for it money. This thing is amazing, can't wait to get to the range with it, its sooooo rugged and reliable, and the tracking is amazing. :ROFLMAO:

    Maybe don't get so emotionally invested in your gear, and you wont get so butt hurt if someone has a different opinion about it than you. Or wait, what exactly about my opinion did you disagree with? You never said, you just got all emotional and started talking shit. Now you are laughing. You having mood swings from pregnancy or menopause, or did the Midol kick in?
    I'm not emotional other than laughing at you. And I'm damn-sure not emotionally invested in my gear. It certainly appears all the top-tier optics guys get their panties in a wad just like clockwork, when the name Arken gets mentioned... It certainly is awfully suspicious... 🤔

    There wouldn't need to be a new Arken thread every week if self-righteous dickholes didn't feel the need to berate and belittle everyone who owns one and posts about it, accusing them of being shills, and complete FUBARing every Arken thread into a shit-show.

    Just because a company is new, doesn't mean everyone who has one and likes it is a shill. That's all I'm saying. But everyone on here gets accused of being a shill and gets treated like crap for owning one and saying that they like it, and what they like about it, and how (through their eyes...Everyone is different) it stacks up to their other brands of scopes. It's a very subjective thing...One person is no more right or wrong than the other.
     
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    r.tenorio671

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    FWIW, ever since I discovered the Hide, I come here often to gather info, and there is alot of good, bad and in-between ;-) And there are alot of opinions too, but everyone has one of those just like they have something else, the trick is to not become one of those "something", there's alot of that here too :) and that makes for some good entertainment as well, LOL. Alot of advanced shooters frequent this forum and share good info at times, as do alot of "aspirants", but we all have the ability to filter what we read...sometime we forget to do that ;-)

    As much as I'd love to own one of those high-end scopes, there is no way I could on a retiree's income and it's just that, a dream unless I win the next Powerball, LOL. But even then, it's attributes would be going to waste as I won't be targeting things mega-miles away and my eyesight is so bad with age that even if I used a star gazing scope used for viewing the stars & planets, my shaky old frame wouldn't be able to steady on anything smaller than the moon...which I'd probably be doing figure 8's on anyways :) .

    For all the shade that's been thrown on Arken, and still continues....remember, negative attention is just as powerful as positive attention in getting one's name known to a larger audience. Are the Arken's good, I won't know until mine arrives in a few days, but I believe it will still be better than my skill set. I won't be able to compare it to the ultra $K scopes, having zilch experience on any but I'll know if it meets my expectations or not.

    Alot of folks talk about the ranking of Chinese, Japanese, European, Philippine glass...but has anyone actually determined where the actual raw glass was manufactured that the lens makers in turn grind, polish and coat to make scope lenses? Stamps of "Country of Origin" typically indicate where the scope was assembled, not the origins of the components used to make said scope, heck even our national brands of Ford, Chevy & Chrysler have components that were sourced from outside of our borders, yet are assembled here....the recent production delays mentioned a shortage of "chips" as being the cause.

    The majority of shooters are "recreational" shooters with pedestrian incomes and the old saying you can sell 10 widgets for $100 or sell a 1000 widgets for $25 applies, a small niche market or a large encompassing market, that's why many companies have multiple tiers of products.

    Ok, time for this FOG to get down off the soap box and get ready for the deluge, should be entertaining :)

    Oh, BTW, for those that put all their faith in what some astute individual might opine on a product, IIRC Lowlight, a very astute SME, made a comment on Arkens, and I didn't interpret it as derogatory.... ;-)
     
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    supercorndogs

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    Calling out bullshit, is not throwing shade. Saying its not on the level of scopes costing 2-3 times as much is not derogatory. I can't help but laugh at how this goes every time, no matter what new thing it is. Someone comes in crowing about how their XXXXX is "just as good" as something costing 2,3,4 times as much. Someone laughs at them. They get butt hurt and start calling it everything but what it is. The truth.

    Does that mean its not ok for the money? There is a lot of open space, between saying "it looks pretty good for the money," and what is being sold in most of these Arken threads. There is always going to be that "just as good" crowd who will claim a Strike Eagle is just a Razor for less money.
     
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    Butleroutdoors

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    Hello 671

    Thank you for your comments and agree, I learn a lot from the hide and it helps in making purchase decisions when weighing budget against intended usage, warranty, optical & mechanical performance.

    Recently I purchased the new Helos BTR 4x20 G2-based upon locking turrets-very nice scope features intending to use it on a future 6mm ARC (hurry up Howa!) truck & target gun. Unfortunately the optical quality suffered at 500 yards so I returned it. Decided to use SH4 which I can live with exposed turrets-worse case is miss a coyote due to bumped turret.

    I also need a scope for a Ruger No. 1 (deer and Antelope rifle) and considering the Burris Signature HD 3x15 due to it has locking (must have) low profile turrets. This scope too is made in China but with Cabelas membership discounts it will approach the price of the SH4.
    Did a quick outside comparison at Cabelas between the VX-3HD, RT-15 and the Signature HD and it was tough to tell which was better at 1000 yds. Up close, it seemed the RT-15 was slightly better, but I want a SFP for hunting rifle.

    Since my buddy and I are starting to push past 1 mile, thinking about a rifle with more punch and upgrading to scope with with more optical clarity.

    I must admit for the last year I have been too hard on the PST. Once I saw it compared to a NXS I realized my expectations where too high for it in regards to optical clarity past 1400 yds.

    For the optical clarity desired at a 1400+ yds and weighing in budget, needing to step up prehaps to a one of these: Cronus, Toric, MK5, Razor, XTR3.
     

    fdkay

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    I too, get a kick out of these threads.
    I remember well, when Vortex announced the release of the PST series, there were MANY on this very site, expounding on the virtues of the new PST scope as "2500 dollar scopes for less than a 1000". They would actually argue that the scopes were really worth 2500 bucks.
    This was before they even shipped the damn things, then, when they hit the shelves and reports that SOME of the models exhibited less than stellar glass, all of the excuses started flowing, plus the usual "well, they have an incredible warranty blah, blah, blah".
    What can't be underestimated, is the impact that the PST series had on the marketplace. If it wasn't for Vortex, you likely wouldn't have so many entry level tactical scopes available, including the Arken series.
    There have been other threads in regards to other scopes that hit the market, with one or two folks that seemed to be "shilling" for the company, when. what it really was, was folks that were excited for the product and thought there was tremendous value in them.

    I must admit, I probably fall into this category when it comes to Sightron.
    I like to bash on fanboys in general, many times they refuse to see the faults, even if minor, in the products they champion.
     

    FuhQ

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    There have been other threads in regards to other scopes that hit the market, with one or two folks that seemed to be "shilling" for the company, when. what it really was, was folks that were excited for the product and thought there was tremendous value in them.
    The Arken thread I created and deleted was nothing more than this. But everyone accused me of shilling, and then got downright ugly, Admin refused to do anything about it, let it continue, so I deleted the thread, then Admin reinstated the thread after I deleted it to let the bashing continue, so I just deleted who whole damn thing AGAIN.
     

    ma smith

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    The defining characteristic of "good glass" is you don't know its there.

    It just dissapears and you see what you see and you shoot what you shoot. You don't think about it. Likewise, being able to see your target in crappy weather isn't really exciting, because "amazing performance" here looks basically "like normal" the rest of the time.

    But again, looking "like normal" looks normal...so

    Ask yourself...who the hell starts a thread saying ther $500 glass looks boringly normal in crappy conditions and they are hyped their scope is not off by .2 clicks at 10 mils even tho their range only goes to 400 and in realtiy they I can't tell the difference between an amazing tracking scope and their .1 zero error...

    I mean nobody does that....
     
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    ma smith

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    That all being said, I'd love to see something brilliant for $500 hit the market "that does it all" because IMHO its really needed on .22LRs. Its really hard stomaching the cost of a $3-500 rifle turning into something alot more expensive because it needs 20mil at 400yds and hence $1,000 of glass.

    [Rant over...]
     
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    koshkin

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    A few comments:

    1) Arken roll out was so disastrous that now whenever someone says anything good about them, he is accused of shilling, sometimes correctly, sometimes not. Arken also pays very hefty affiliate commission to influencers, so there is still a lot of shilling going on. However, a lot seems to be simply people who bought into the hype and are now proudly justifying their purchases. It happens.

    2) I have an Arken SH4 here that I have been playing with and it is a very respectable design in its price range. It seems to be a very good deal for the money based on what I have seen so far, but it is not a $1k scope. From a product design standpoint, they are doing a lot of things right and as more of these get out there we will have a better idea of consistency. During the supply chain crunch, it seemed like there was a good amount of sample variation. Hopefully, that is stabilizing.

    3) PST Gen1 and Gen2 have nothing in common. They are made in the same country, but by different OEMs. Judging PST Gen2 based on experience with HS-T or PST Gen1 is kinda silly, but it happens all the time.

    ILya
     

    Gohring65

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    A few comments:

    1) Arken roll out was so disastrous that now whenever someone says anything good about them, he is accused of shilling, sometimes correctly, sometimes not. Arken also pays very hefty affiliate commission to influencers, so there is still a lot of shilling going on. However, a lot seems to be simply people who bought into the hype and are now proudly justifying their purchases. It happens.

    2) I have an Arken SH4 here that I have been playing with and it is a very respectable design in its price range. It seems to be a very good deal for the money based on what I have seen so far, but it is not a $1k scope. From a product design standpoint, they are doing a lot of things right and as more of these get out there we will have a better idea of consistency. During the supply chain crunch, it seemed like there was a good amount of sample variation. Hopefully, that is stabilizing.

    3) PST Gen1 and Gen2 have nothing in common. They are made in the same country, but by different OEMs. Judging PST Gen2 based on experience with HS-T or PST Gen1 is kinda silly, but it happens all the time.

    ILya
    This forum is losing people like you. When ever someone is researching a 500$ scope they google and snipershide pops up with a few threads with several hundred reply’s and when you click on it, there’s two guys arguing for several days over a 500$ optic. Any valuable input is lost early in the thread. And once it’s on google, it becomes a permanent shit stain on the promotion of the sport.
     

    koshkin

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    This forum is losing people like you. When ever someone is researching a 500$ scope they google and snipershide pops up with a few threads with several hundred reply’s and when you click on it, there’s two guys arguing for several days over a 500$ optic. Any valuable input is lost early in the thread. And once it’s on google, it becomes a permanent shit stain on the promotion of the sport.
    All I can do is say my piece and move on to the next topic.

    ILya
     

    JohnCarter17

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    I'm not emotional other than laughing at you. And I'm damn-sure not emotionally invested in my gear. It certainly appears all the top-tier optics guys get their panties in a wad just like clockwork, when the name Arken gets mentioned... It certainly is awfully suspicious... 🤔
    Not really. It's more a matter of common sense.

    When you have asshats saying that they are torn because their Arken is as good as a S&B for a quarter of the price.

    Then the same InterGalactic Asshat starts talking up nonexistent optic shortages then says "Buy the Arken and use my code".

    At that point it is pretty easy to spot the "shill of the week". It's not hating, it's about having an IQ that exceeds that of a small blue soapdish.

    But you keep doing what you do. Maybe next time, you can point out where that Vortex touched you in the wrong place.

    FYI. I own SWFA (3), Trijicon(1), Meopta(3), Swarovski (1 Habicht Nova) and Swampfox(3). I will be getting a Swampfox Warhawk when they come in. So I am not snobbish against Chinese scopes. I like the glass for the price and deal with some of the cons (weight).
     
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    FuhQ

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    Not really. It's more a matter of common sense.

    When you have asshats saying that they are torn because their Arken is as good as a S&B for a quarter of the price.

    Then the same InterGalactic Asshat starts talking up nonexistent optic shortages then says "Buy the Arken and use my code".

    At that point it is pretty easy to spot the "shill of the week". It's not hating, it's about having an IQ that exceeds that of a small blue soapdish.

    But you keep doing what you do. Maybe next time, you can point out where that Vortex touched you in the wrong place.
    I don't know who you're talking about, saying something about "optics shortages", but I never once have said, "use my code" when it comes to anything. Because I'm not sponsored by, or shilling for, anyone. But whatever you like to think.
     

    JohnCarter17

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    This forum is losing people like you. When ever someone is researching a 500$ scope they google and snipershide pops up with a few threads with several hundred reply’s and when you click on it, there’s two guys arguing for several days over a 500$ optic. Any valuable input is lost early in the thread. And once it’s on google, it becomes a permanent shit stain on the promotion of the sport.
    He's around and still posting here, arf.com and opticstalk.com (SWFA). But you don't know when or in what thread he will pop in (I figure every one to two weeks)
     

    JohnCarter17

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    I don't know who you're talking about, saying something about "optics shortages", but I never once have said, "use my code" when it comes to anything. Because I'm not sponsored by, or shilling for, anyone. But whatever you like to think.
    Congrats. There was no accusation it was you. Don't take yourself that seriously. I was explaining the lay of the land.

    I was referring to Tiboshillus Rex.
     
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    Boon20

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    Yesterday went to SpearPoint Ranch to stretch out our shooting distances. I was able to compare optical quality at 1400 yd, 1760 yd and 1975 yd between my Vortex PST G2 5x25 FFP my buddies Arken SH 6x24 FFP and his NightForce NXS 5.5x22 SFP.

    My observations (my opinion only) of all 3 scopes at 22x:
    SH4 clairity, crispness and light at 1400 was on close to the PST. When going out to a mile and then on to 1975 the PST had a slight edge, but neither being great but usable

    On the NF compared to the two it was better at 1975 and more noticeable at 1400.

    On 15x SH4 and PST fairly close at those distances, with PST slightly better.

    Just looking at optical quality, PST and SH4 are good enough for 1400 yd and occasional pop out to 1 mile using 15x-18x

    Looking forward one day to comparing to MK5, Toric, Cronus, XTR3 and others in this caterogy to see how optics quality increases
    Just out of curiosity, was the nxs made in japan or US? Im asking because i have noticed a difference between the two versions of nxs.
     

    r.tenorio671

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    .....I appreciate ILya's postings, informative AND objective and done with what I consider the proper perspective applied, no "Ford Pinto -vs- Ford Cobra" comparison's... (y)

    ... I just received my Arken last night and after the unboxing and fooling around with it, that old cliche of "1st impressions make for a lasting impression" applies...I'm impressed.
     
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    FuhQ

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    .....I appreciate ILya's postings, informative AND objective and done with what I consider the proper perspective applied, no "Ford Pinto -vs- Ford Cobra" comparison's... (y)

    ... I just received my Arken last night and after the unboxing and fooling around with it, that old cliche of "1st impressions make for a lasting impression" applies...I'm impressed.
    Right? Not shilling, but It's easily the best $450 scope I've handled...That's for sure.

    Now, how well it holds up and lasts, that's yet to be seen, but based on first impressions, like you, I have high-hopes for mine, as well. So far, it's been absolutely perfect on my R700 5R .260 Rem. Still holding zero, the Arken rings are still staying tight, zero stop returns to actual zero without any variance. I really hope it holds up. And if it does, I'll certainly be upgrading a few other rifles with Arkens because they have features some of my higher priced scopes don't.
     

    r.tenorio671

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    Right? Not shilling, but It's easily the best $450 scope I've handled...That's for sure.

    Now, how well it holds up and lasts, that's yet to be seen, but based on first impressions, like you, I have high-hopes for mine, as well. So far, it's been absolutely perfect on my R700 5R .260 Rem. Still holding zero, the Arken rings are still staying tight, zero stop returns to actual zero without any variance. I really hope it holds up. And if it does, I'll certainly be upgrading a few other rifles with Arkens because they have features some of my higher priced scopes don't.
    ...well, I messed around with the turrets quite a bit sitting at the dining table last night, going to the max on L-R, U-D I don't know how many times...it was alot :LOL:, and they always returned to the zero they were set at (elevation) as received. The windage had a little give at the end of the outward rotation, as if the set screws had a bit of "slippage", but that was only if I put some undue force on it, the amount of "give" was just barely past the demarcation line for the zero, not even halfway to the next line. Under "normal" rotation speed/force it would stop right on the money. I believe it's due the windage cap uses just the friction of the 3 retaining screws to control movement, unlike the elevation turrets raised bar and associated set screw that acts like a "stop pin". Of course, being the inquisitive type, I did remove and replace the caps multiple times in my effort to familiarize myself and see if my bumbling caused any problems...they are definitely "Private proof" ....or at least "PFC proof" ;) as we used to say in my earlier life...
     
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    FuhQ

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    ...well, I messed around with the turrets quite a bit sitting at the dining table last night, going to the max on L-R, U-D I don't know how many times...it was alot :LOL:, and they always returned to the zero they were set at (elevation) as received. The windage had a little give at the end of the outward rotation, as if the set screws had a bit of "slippage", but that was only if I put some undue force on it, the amount of "give" was just barely past the demarcation line for the zero, not even halfway to the next line. Under "normal" rotation speed/force it would stop right on the money. I believe it's due the windage cap uses just the friction of the 3 retaining screws to control movement, unlike the elevation turrets raised bar and associated set screw that acts like a "stop pin". Of course, being the inquisitive type, I did remove and replace the caps multiple times in my effort to familiarize myself and see if my bumbling caused any problems...they are definitely "Private proof" ....or at least "PFC proof" ;) as we used to say in my earlier life...
    But are they POG-proof? 🤣
     

    RALA

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    Apr 4, 2020
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    Yesterday went to SpearPoint Ranch to stretch out our shooting distances. I was able to compare optical quality at 1400 yd, 1760 yd and 1975 yd between my Vortex PST G2 5x25 FFP my buddies Arken SH 6x24 FFP and his NightForce NXS 5.5x22 SFP.

    My observations (my opinion only) of all 3 scopes at 22x:
    SH4 clairity, crispness and light at 1400 was on close to the PST. When going out to a mile and then on to 1975 the PST had a slight edge, but neither being great but usable

    On the NF compared to the two it was better at 1975 and more noticeable at 1400.

    On 15x SH4 and PST fairly close at those distances, with PST slightly better.

    Just looking at optical quality, PST and SH4 are good enough for 1400 yd and occasional pop out to 1 mile using 15x-18x

    Looking forward one day to comparing to MK5, Toric, Cronus, XTR3 and others in this caterogy to see how optics quality increases


    We live in the golden age of rifles and scopes. So much more value for money today.

    My Arken SH 4-16 has proven to be a great choice for my rimfire set-up. We shoot 100 out to 350 yards. If I'm shooting centerfire to 1k (longest range near me) then either the Viper or Athlon ares work well. If I had an opportunity to go mile + then I'd be looking at Nightforce or Kahles.

    Right tool for the job always makes life easier. Some people drive a Ferrari getting groceries, but I don't take my convertible to deer camp.