Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

[STP]

We went a bit late today...3 relays were needed to get all of us thru the match. Another new shooter with us today too!

Here are the results-

F/TR

1. KMussack 194-18V
2. Sled 193-22V
3. Curt 191-20V
4. Jeff W. 184-9V
5. Dan M. 184-7V
6. Mike R. 173-12V

F/Open

1. JDA Jr. 197-20V
2. Rob 195-25V
3. Dan S. 194-25V
4. JDA Sr. 193-11V
5. Woody 189-15V
6. STP 188-15V
7. Jason 187-12V
8. Greg 181-9V

For the first time that I can remember, we had more Open class guns today than TR guns. The weather was great...a light breeze from our 6 o`clock and a bit of mirage. Given the fine conditions, I was sure that <span style="font-style: italic">someone </span>would post as perfect score. Ah well, no joy!

I found out today just how many rounds my BRX takes to "settle down" after a bore cleaning since our last match. Hint: It takes more than 19 rounds after a re-treat with moly. I dropped 9 points the 1st relay. On the 2nd, I dropped only 2 points. Yes, I`ve made notes on this...

It was a pleasure to see Mike R. today...he drove a long way to shoot with us. Thanks Mike!

Oh, I have a spotting scope/stand and a rear bag that were left behind today. I know the owner of the spotter, but not the rear bag. I`ll take care of both and expect to see one or both owners in the near future, eh?

A fine day at the range. Thanks to all.

Scott

 

[darkvibe]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

It was nice shooting with everyone today and nice meeting the people that I hadn't met before.

My score improved since last time so I'm happy.

Thanks again for organizing the match, Scott.

 

[W00DY]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Thanks for picking up the left overs. I believe the rear bag is mine. Hang on to it and I'll pick it up at the next match. Don't go putting any voodo hexes on it now

. Thanks for running the match scotty. See you in two weeks!!

 

[STP]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Woody,

No time for voodoo...I`m still trying to get a handle on the BRX in it`s 1st year of matches! Sheesh!!

Your Protektor bag will be in goods hands till we see you again.

You and your braked .300 Winchester ("Thumper") are always a hoot.

Nice shooting by the way! A thermocouple on the barrel too, to monitor barrel temperature as well...to cool!

Wow...

Scott

 

[JDA Sr]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Hey Greg, did you find your orange ear muffs yet
sometimes you need to look real close for things like them

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Another great day!

My personal lesson for the day was slow down and relax. After my first target, I went to checking NPA on every shot. It was worth it. I had my first clean target ever on the second relay. I'm really excited about my progress.

I'm pretty sure I'll miss the Oct 3rd, but I really hope to make the next one. Hope to see all of you there as well.

Steve

 

[Jaeger308]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Good to see everyone. Sled very nice shooting, you have worked hard and it shows!

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Jaeger - thanks! I have spent a lot of time behind that gun this summer between shooting and dry fire. A lot of time behind my 22 for practice, too.

Now if I could only get rid of that bipod hop. I know concrete shows it more than most other surfaces, but it is still pretty annoying. I'm actually suprised it doesn't affect my shots more than it does?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

No, John, and it's driving me Nutz! (John is a very, very funny man...)

The lesson I learned today was that giving up is not one of the basics. Despite my cherished lock on last place, my latest score represents a significant improvement, and it comes from getting back to the basics.

There's still something going on that I haven't quite nailed, but now I've at least gotten the 'thinking component of the system' tamed on down to the point where I can reliably recognize when a flyer came from it, or came from something else.

The barrel is running quite hot, and I need to get that part tamed a bit better. I got my shooting cadence down to a reasonable pace, and it helped. After the match, I experimented and clearly demonstrated that the difference between patience and speedshooting is about 2 points per shot, all else being similar.

The original brass was retired after last match. I had then fished some questionable brass out of the recycle can. Although never fired, it had been misprepped. The collar on the flash hole reamer had slipped and many of the flash holes had become enlarged by a significant and inconsistent degree. As an experiemnt, I had loaded it up this time to see if there was a genuine difference. Well; there clearly is.

While it's premature to state that this was the origin of some pretty frustrating and confusing flyers, this is a strong contender for that prize. I was very demanding of myself regarding my pre- and post shot checklist, and my confidence is high that the grand majority of the flyers were not shooter-induced errors.

So that leaves the hardware/loads.

The loads, though tame, are still pretty heavy charges, nearly 49gr of R/S Hunter behind the HDY 95gr V-Max. When I developed the load, I used a slower powder than recommended. The book calls for Big Game.

I started at an estimated max and worked down through 3gr worth of increments. Pressure signs at this charge level are very tame. But the barrel is getting far too hot, even when the cadence is slower than any other shooter on the line. So I think that some load redevelopment is in order.

The Hodgdon charts recommend H-414/WW-760 for this bullet, and it's time to get some and get these loads back onto the 'reality sector' of the chart. This time, we start at min and work up. We also do it with some new brass. Also, finally, the 2.750" OAL is just an arbitrary length, and is probably way short of the rifling. I'm sure that actually finding the lands and loading with some real reference to them will yield at least some small additional benefit.

I am thoroughly confident that attenting to these finer points will bring improvement, and that my skills, which still need considerable renewal, will build on that improvement.

It's a work in progress, and it's also a lesson in itself.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Sled;

I observed Kevin, who shot best among the bipod shooters this time around. He places his bipod beyond the concrete, onto the soil and grass. Perfectly legal for our purposes, and probably a really good way to deal with the kind of problem you're experiencing.

You might try that next time; as an experiment to see how the results compare against your current technique. You just need to extend the legs further. If your bipod is too short, maybe I can scrounge up a longer Harris somewhere out in the gear midden. Just say.

Greg

 

[JDA Sr]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Greg, if you dont mind waiting till the next match i've got some 414 you can have to try
save you from buying a full pound
just couldn't resist the jab about the earmuffs. it got a chuckle from everyone, including you i think

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Greg,

I tried that before, but my bipod was too short.

It's looking pretty certain that I won't make the Oct 3rd match, but I may take you up on the offer for the next match.

I tried watching some of the other bipod on concrete shooters (this and other matches) and most do not seem to have the hop I have. At the range local to me, I have moved over to the grass, and it makes a big difference. Somehow I have to balance using that to overcome bad methods vs using that to learn what works.

I've been thinking about a longer bipod for other purposes, maybe this is the reason I need to push me over the edge. It would be good to try one first to be sure what size will work.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

I think the important thing would be to get something that's softer and more shock absorbing underneath the bipod feet than solid concrete.

I haven't been shooting bipod lately, but in the past, I would rest the bipod feet on my mat, sometimes folding the mat to a couple of thicknesses. My mat is nothing special, just a mover's blanket that has been around the block about a decade's worth.

I figure even a folded towel could help.

Meanwhile, I'll see if I can scrounge up that longer bipod.

There's a lot of knowledge concerning bipod usage on the paid forum. Some of it's a bit beyond me, but I think it all makes solid sense. I think they get ten bucks a month for the subscription/authorization. Right now I'm trying to make do without. Bucks are scarce right now (...like, when aren't they...?) and the Wife...

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

John;

I just saw your post re: the H-414. Yes, thank you, I'd like that.

Oh yes. No harm, no foul; actually quite apropos in the context. And just so much like me when I get distracted.

...Which is becoming my natural state...

Regarding those mismatched flash holes, I'm giving them one more effort, since there's so little to lose.

I guaged the largest and smallest using my number drills.

The smallest was equiv to a #45 (.080") and the largest was equiv to a #40 (.095"), I figured that if some were too large, another way to look at it was to decide some were too small.

I set up the drill press and redrilled all to the #40 (.095") diameter. Now they are uniform.

I will be using them for load testing, this time starting at the bottom end of the load band at 46.0gr and doing five each of .3gr increments, up to 48.4gr. There's also 10rd of 48.8gr loads for foulers, and to see if uniforming the flash hole diameters makes any difference. I'm only using them at all because the 48.8gr loads showed practically no pressure signs, as you saw. This will be the last time through with this brass, as about half of the primer pockets are finally getting kinda loose. I sealed this batch of primers with polyurethane, just as a precaution.

Testing for an OAL, the 2.750" OAL wasn't so far off the mark, and I ended up with a new OAL of 2.775", and that only barely gets 1 caliber down into the neck, including the boat tail, so much longer isn't an option anyway. Between the longer OAL and smaller charges, the load is no longer compressed.

If this produces a more accurate load, then I'll refine it and report, and I've got enough Hunter to get me through the rest of this year's shoots. But I absolutely need to rule out the load as part of the inconsistency. This gun has shot <span style="font-style: italic">well</span> under 1 MOA at 250yd, so there's bound to be better than what we saw Sunday still lurking somewhere in the mix.

Meanwhile, I'll be in a position to pick up more components as of tomorrow or shortly thereafter, and I'll definitely be getting more decent brass and more 95gr V-Maxes.

Maybe. The bigger cat just coughed up some bloody phlegm and is going to the Vet tomorrow morning. Oy...

Sled;

Just located the longer bipod. It's a Harris Model L 9-13" non-swivel/non tilt version. It's now packed in the range box. We're talking loan to see if it works, then buy your own, OK?

Greg

 

[sr15match]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

It looks like I missed out on a good shoot. But I am back from Texas and with any hope I'll be ready for the October shoot(s).

Todd

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Greg,

Loan for duration of a match is perfect. If that size works, I have no problem buying one. I just don't want to buy one only to find out it is too short/long. It would be just my luck, you know?

I am in the online training. If not for that, my scores would not be where they are.

I've been known to cheat with a big beach towel folded in half and put under my mat so that my weight holds it in place. It helps, but it's still not perfect. Next range trip I need to focus on completely relaxing that shoulder. I think it could be that there is some muscle tension that is reacting to the recoil.

I hope your cat is OK. A week ago our outside cat was so dizzy it couldn't sit up. Vet gave a price tag of $1k to diagnose and attempt to fix. This is a stray cat we feed to keep the mice population down. So, we brought him in to be safe, kept him fed, and he is now back out catching mice. No idea what it was, but glad he got better on his own.

Todd,

It was a great day with the weather being so nice. Look forward to seeing you there again.

Steve

 

[STP]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr15match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks like I missed out on a good shoot. But I am back from Texas and with any hope I'll be ready for the October shoot(s).

Todd </div></div>

I forgot about your trip...

We hope to see <span style="font-style: italic">both </span> of you next month.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Cat turned out to have seasonal allergies, along with another half dozen kitties in the waiting room. Things are serious this season. $60 including two tubes of triple antibiotic eye ointment. Lucked out there.

There are two kinds of vets, the kind I got, and the kind who sees pets as a license to print money. You gotta ditch your current vet and get my kinda vet.

Stopped by Mike's yesterday and picked up 100 pieces of W-W .243Win brass. It's already been necked up as .260, flash reamed, and polished clean. I think I'll use the drill press to drill a shallow divot into the base/rim in the middle of the '4' in the 243 head stamp, just as a reminder that it's no longer .243 brass.

O/O my 6.5mm 95gr V-Max, 2 separate orders due in by mid-next week. Meanwhile, I'm GTG for this round of load testing and the second/final round, and at least the next two matches. The second round of testing will be done with the new brass and match prmers. Lg Rifle Primers are still not available.

Stepping back and doing things by the book again. It's helping.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Did the first round of ladder testing Friday. Found something promising at the min (46.0gr) charge level tested; significantly better than what I'd been shooting. Between weather tomorrow and range closing for County deputies' quals Mon-Thurs, my first opportunity for second round testing would be Friday.

OT and FYI, we had a good work day today, and the range is reopened for the rest of the weekend.

Greg

 

[sr15match]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

I did a little time at the range today trying a couple AMAX/Varget combos with varying results as it was quite windy when shooting. I still have time before the next shoot to get something together but we'll see I guess. I think the problem is more than likely me.

NEEN MORE CONSISTANCY DRIVING THIS THING!!!!!!!!!

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Well, a busy day for load testing! I think I've also found a good load for me, also at the low end of the powder range.

I also learned a cheater trick for the bipod hop. I took a beach towel, folded in half the long way and put it under my mat with some sticking out the front to put the bipod feet on. It gave me just enough grip to reduce the hop. I've still got to make some more improvements, but this helps. I'm hoping that this little bit of cheating helps me learn how to load it better so that eventually I can load it without cheating.

On another note - does anyone shoot Black Hills 168 gr ammo? I bought 2 boxes a while back. It shoots horrible out of my gun - almost 2 inch group at 100 yards. If someone shoots that, I'll give them a good deal at the mid-Oct match.

 

[sr15match]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On another note - does anyone shoot Black Hills 168 gr ammo? I bought 2 boxes a while back. It shoots horrible out of my gun - almost 2 inch group at 100 yards. If someone shoots that, I'll give them a good deal at the mid-Oct match. </div></div>

sled, you not going to the first match? And yeah, the Black Hills 168 Match didn't fair so well for me either. I bought 80 rounds a while back and ended up using it for practice.

Todd

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

I don't see that as cheating. It's simply a better way of using your equipment, and no rules outlaw that.

I can tell you how to eliminate hop completely.

Mount a sling fore and aft, along with the bipod, and let it hang down a bit loose beneath the rifle.

Slip your non-firing hand between rifle and sling and reach back to do you usual thing with the rear bag. If you shoot rightie, this will be your left hand.

Adjust the sling length until the elbow bears down on the sling, holding the elbow just barely above your mat. This applies the body's weight holding the bipod firmly against the ground/mat.

Fire normally. They is no way on God's green earth that the rifle will hop.

Take a little bit of getting used to, but it works best of any methods I've ever seen. I can't find an easier way to use a sling in Prone.

For other positions, Montana Marine has recently posted an outstanding thread about simple and effective ways to employ the basic sling.

Greg

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Odessa FV 200yd F-Class Results Sept. 20th

Todd, snowmobile show is that weekend, and we are planning a trip out west with another couple, and the show is the only place to be able to talk to some different outfits about options and other things to do while there.

Greg, thanks for the link. I'll look at that in more detail later. My issue at this point is that I'm not practicing to compete in F-class. I'm doing this to be a better marksman (which would not go to waste if I had the change to shoot an F-class match). Since I know I wouldn't be carrying a front rest in the field, I use the bipod. I would likely have a sling, so exploring that is a good option. But having too many "helpful tools" that work for the range but are not practical to carry would not help me if I were to take this rifle hunting for example. I wouldn't even see myself taking a mat for that. I have no specific goal or use in mind, just a general idea.

I think that way of thinking makes sense. If I'm missing something, let me know. ETA: This is to define cheating in the context of this discussion. Not cheating the match, but cheating myself out of learning to shoot the best I can.

I might have you guide me into that position you describe the next match I make. I'm having trouble visualizing how I get that left elbow so far forward. I'll have to try it when I get back in town next week.

Steve