Advanced Marksmanship Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

[Bad Wolf]

When shooting off bags, front and rear, not bipod, is it generally accepted that it is always better to shoot free recoil with the non trigger hand manipulating the rear bag or are there occasions when it is better for the non trigger hand to adjust POA by holding the forend ?

 

[Graham]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=83212&highlight=free+recoil

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=808961&highlight=free+recoil

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=1495762&highlight=free+recoil

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

I use the non-firing hand to guide the rifle by manipulating the rear bag. Not free recoil, I use the firing hand to pull the rifle into my shoulder with some authority and some consistency. I've found that F Class and free recoil don't work together very well for me. YMMV.

Greg

 

[dreever]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Free recoil with a .308 equals bloody nose and/or black eye!!!!
I would say free recoil is reserved for cartridges in the 6BR and under class.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Alan Warner]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Depends on the stock configuration and weight. I have customers who shoot free recoil with 7 rsaum and 7/300 wsm's. Successfuly enough to win the recent World Individual Title, and others.

I've never been able to free recoil the big hammers well.

 

[110len]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Also, muzzle brake or no brake? Rifle recoil mechanics will be different.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Out of all the rifles I've owned/shot/built there's only been one I could shoot free recoil, a .308. All of the others shot better with light shoulder pressure. Bag placement, alignment, shoulder distance from but pad, cheek and finger contact/pressure all play a role in bag shooting. Consistency is the name of the game. Change one and you'll change the recoil/tracking of the rifle and your POI.

The only time I hold the forearm is with the lighter sporter weight rifles. I lightly one hand everything else while squeezing the rear bag.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Some guns like to be held lightly, some work better 'pinned' against the front rest (similar to the concept of 'pre-loading' a bipod). For me, 'pinning' is harder to do consistently, but it can work very well.

Generally speaking... shooting actual 'free recoil' is not exactly legal in US F-Class. Pretty hard to police, though. I don't believe I ever read that section of the ICFRA rules, actually.

As far as holding the fore-end... generally thats something you don't see much with competitive shooters - gripping that fore-end may 'feel' better and work pretty well for a while, but doing so consistently is tough and eventually people stop doing it and move to either controlling using the rear bag or a joystick front rest. Gripping may be necessary to keep a lightweight hunting rifle from 'jumping' out of the bags, at which point it becomes a necessary evil.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

For me personally, 6PPC or 22PPC do fine in most cases shooting "free recoil". All my other rifles have liked a tighter hold better. A couple have liked a "Bear hug" type of hold. Or maybe it's just me not wanting to get the full recoil shaking me around.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

You must control the rifle until recoil subsides; and, any technique that makes the recoil pattern more predictable will better assure consistency. Remember, consistency equals accuracy. However, when the non-firing hand is someplace other than the on the forend, control can become sketchy, unless the rifle is a full blown bench rest gun, where caliber, weight, and trigger pull weight make "free recoil" a concept perhaps more useful than one where the shooter needs more contact with the gun and ground. Makes me wonder though, what's the point. Might as well do it by remote control. For me, the pleasure of shooting is in the challenge of perfecting my position (contact with the gun and ground) to get results such as the bench rest shooter but without the bench rest. Sling up!

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Wow. I didn't think it was possible to pack that much ignorance of other shooting disciplines into one post, but you did it. Congrats.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Maybe you can show me how to do it.

To the OP, all shooting is the same. It's about sight alignment and trigger control supported by a steady position. The steady position has 3 elements: bone/artificial support, muscular relaxation, and natural point of aim. There are also 5 factors to a steady position: stock-weld, butt-to-shoulder, non-firing hand, grip, and elbows.

In a bench-rest position, the bone/artificial support element is more artificial than it is bone, and shooter contact with the gun is minimized by/through designs pretty much exclusive to the bench-rest arena. The notion behind all of this is that free-recoil may get better consistency than when applying the factors of a steady position as required of the shooter in other positions.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Re: Off bags - free recoil or forend hold ?

Many thanks for all the informative advice.

I am doing some load development on my .17 Rem Fireball and need consistent groups at my zero range of 200 yards, so I'm experimentng with various shooting positions.

The rifle is a factory Remington Model 7 CDL with a 20" sporter barrel, but the muzzle has been screwcut and fitted with a Wildcat P8 sound moderator which weighs about 1.25lb.

To date, my most consistent groups have been achieved with a Caldwell Tack Driver front bag, filled with polyethylene beads, and a homemade rear bag, using a Hard Hold One hand postion (HH1). But my best, tightest, groups have been with a light forend grip. However the HH2 position was not as consistent as HH1.

The free recoil tests are still ongoing.