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Advanced Marksmanship Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

paindoc

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 7, 2008
189
0
Peoples Republic of Michigan
I am a left handed shooter, and have trained and used a right handed rifle. But so far all my training in my new hobby has been from the prone position on the bipod.

Other than buying a LH rifle, is there anyone who can comment and or provide tips on shooting/training for shooting off hand for the LH shooter with a RH rifle.

I am told the US Military still has LH shooters use RH bolt guns. Can anyone comment on their techniques as well?
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

I'm in the same position as you.

I run the bolt with my right hand and support the rifle with my left during bolt cycling.

For an AR the charging handle works equally well in both RH and LH shooters, but it blows ejection port gasses and debris in my face once in a while.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

I run the bolt with my left hand, gotta reach across the rifle to do it. Its not a natural movement, if u have a LA you may need to break your cheek weld to cycle..I do it this way because if I try to work the bolt with my right hand (support side) I lose support of the rifle and if my thumb is over the top of the stock I could gash it pretty bad working the bolt and not paying attention..

Left handed bolts rock. Theres also the peace of mind knowing if you had a case head failure or something like that the ejection port is on the opposite side of the rifle and not 3 inches past your nose.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

It's not much of an issue if you're shooting off a bipod but, if you ever put a sling on it, you really have no choice, you have to use your left hand to cycle it.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

Don't waste your time or energy shooting "Off Hand" with a Tactical Rifle.

We put up a target at 125 yards and barely anyone hit it and some couldn't even hit the frame....

Support the rifle, that is what it is designed for, it is not meant to be shot off hand, if you have to do that, shit has gone really wrong, you are probably inside 100 yards and then you'll just make a snap shot, up and fire, you won't be playing that NRA, sideways looking crap... nobody is trying to shoot these off hand in the military.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

Just a general bit of advice- I *did* set up my 700P for the potential for off hand shooting. Though it's rare, you do see it occasionally in stages of tactical matches:

http://www.demigodllc.com/photo/SteelSafari-2007/?small=D101_6137_img.jpg

http://www.demigodllc.com/photo/SteelSafari-2007/?small=D101_6144_img.jpg

http://www.gaprecision.net/templates/ga_precision/images/banner/ga_precision_home_banner_6.png

The trick is all in the weighting. With my 700, I filled the hollow buttstock with epoxy and lead shot, and it made a world of difference. Initially, most of these rifles are ill suited because of their extremely heavy barrels and relatively light synthetic stocks. This causes severe instability compared to a more center-balanced rifle. But once you move the center of mass closer to your vertical axis, it becomes as easy (or nearly as easy) as any other rifle. It's akin to how highpower shooters fill their AR stocks with lead to achieve the same effect.

As a further example, if you look at most hunting rifles, which *are* intended for offhand shooting, you're looking at a combination of much lighter barrels and somewhat heavier wooden stocks, resulting in a more centered point of balance. Most tactical rifles are really shaped the same, you just have to "shift" them a bit
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Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

I've found some pretty good reasons to waste ammo too. One of them is the ammo has gotten old
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Best advice is as always. Do your best which should include having the rifle and body position properly cared for. If the bolt gives you a problem just modify it.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

The reason folks don't shoot much of anything in their rifle rack from the standing position is that the results are not as good as what can be achieved from a position built using both bone and artificial support. However, for me, shooting a six inch 10 round clean at 200 from standing is a much more satisfying experience than a 600 yard clean from a prone sling supported position, just because it is more difficult. BTW, IMHO the typical "tactical" stocked rifle is ideal for shooting from any position. Also, when shooting from the standing position, a better understanding for the importance of NPA adjustment will be assured.

Remember, executing the firing task and knowing how to shoot are only synonymous when the shooter can succeed in any scenario. You need to be able to hit what is presented to you from the position afforded you. This means practicing from the standing position in addition to the positions you've already mastered.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

It you ever come by Rifles Only, on the wall is a letter from Bill D who owns Tac Pro. Many years ago, at Tac Pro Jacob Bynum had a small 1000 yard shoot off from positions and using an Accuracy International rifle, started out seated and hit the 1000 yards target. This brought on the bet... 1 shot at 1000 yards from the standing with a tactical rifle.

it took him 20 minutes to set up his NPA properly and using a snap shot technique were the rifle was raised and quickly fired he hit the 1000 yard target surrounded by witnesses.

No one is saying you can't shoot a tactical rifle off hand, we are only saying why would you other than a snap situation, which is more than likely inside 100 yards.

Simply put we are not designed to hold up 16lbs rifle off hand. Its not a practical application of the system. In fact in the military when faced with a shot even close to something like a standing, its is taught to use a "partner supported" position. You shoot off someone else's shoulder.

We teach the snap shot method, where indeed NPA is the key element, however it is shot like a carbine, not like an Olympic off hand shooter. You square up, plant your feet with your NPA aligned, raise the rifle. if not on target you move your feet and continue to adjust. Just thinking about the elements of the shot, if you were faced with an immediate threat to your front and thought you were going to Olympic offhand, you'd be dead 3X overs on the time it takes to set up the off hand position. It's foolish plain and simple.

Most tactical rifles are all barrel, making them extremely front heavy, so trying to hold that up is not very smart, especially when trying to hone in on a target.

Of course we did it in the USMC from 200 yards, but that is an 8lbs rifle, and you have all kinds of time. But in practical application, your training is better spent else where. It's an unnecessary legacy skill.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it took him 20 minutes to set up his NPA properly and using a snap shot technique were the rifle was raised and quickly fired he hit the 1000 yard target surrounded by witnesses.</div></div>

Note too self; Don't fuck with Jacob Bynum!

-Pat
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

Interestingly enough, today's "tactical" rifle was yesterday's "target" rifle. Take a look, for example, at the 1968 Winchester catalog, the Winchester M70 Target is identical to what most folks want in a "tactical" rifle these days. Thing is, today's rifle, unless modified for scope usage will still fit the shooter better with an iron sight set than with the more likely attached scope sight.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interestingly enough, today's "tactical" rifle was yesterday's "target" rifle. Take a look, for example, at the 1968 Winchester catalog, the Winchester M70 Target is identical to what most folks want in a "tactical" rifle these days. Thing is, today's rifle, unless modified for scope usage will still fit the shooter better with an iron sight set than with the more likely attached scope sight. </div></div>

Not really, that is just what some people think a "Tactical Rifle" is... they are more so moving towards this

SABER_product.jpg


Which looks nothing like something from the 60's... some builders are just building their own idea of what they are, but that doesn't make them tactical or right.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

Hmmm...Sort of looks like something modeled after the Tubb 2000, a contemporary "target" rifle. Of course, the Tubb 2000 design is available in a tactical version.

One thing for sure, the label "tactical" and "sniper" sells product. Savvy marketers, it appears, are now cashing in on general products only distinguished from the whole by labels supporting the notions of those seeking to heighten their shooting fantasy.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

Tactical Tampax is also available, and the Tubb "tactical" rifle is just about that "tactical".

Take a Tubb "tactical" up 20 feet and drop it butt first onto the ground. See how it does.

The rifle in that picture was designed by and for military snipers. The Tubb "tactical" isn't.
 
Re: Off handed shooting for the left handed shooter

Interestingly, the latest Remington Military Group's .338 rifles, designed in E'town just down the street from me, were inspired by the Tubb 2000.