Offset Micro Red Dots on Bolt Guns

[diderr]

After researching the depths of the hide I found people are strongly for or strongly against mounting an offset dot on a bolt action. It seems these posts were more “dated”. I’ve seen them becoming more seen on the PRS scene. What are some good advantages and disadvantages?

My plan; I did buy a 30mm trijicon offset mount and plan on mounting it on my NX8 4-32. This is on my long range hunting rifle.

My thoughts; for close range, jump an animal shots it will give me a quick shot (my scope stays capped nearly 100% of the time in hunting) also, it will give me a quick reference for indexing a target. Especially in a “busy” environment of vegetation and such. Am I wrong in my thinking?

 

[ormandj]

After researching the depths of the hide I found people are strongly for or strongly against mounting an offset dot on a bolt action. It seems these posts were more “dated”. I’ve seen them becoming more seen on the PRS scene. What are some good advantages and disadvantages?

My plan; I did buy a 30mm trijicon offset mount and plan on mounting it on my NX8 4-32. This is on my long range hunting rifle.

My thoughts; for close range, jump an animal shots it will give me a quick shot (my scope stays capped nearly 100% of the time in hunting) also, it will give me a quick reference for indexing a target. Especially in a “busy” environment of vegetation and such. Am I wrong in my thinking?

The only downsides are:

1) Cost
2) Weight
3) Snags

Only you can answer if the trade offs are worth it to you. If you carry capped scope all the time and find yourself needing to rapidly shoot at targets with enough frequency to offset the downsides, it sounds like it makes sense. Just make sure your rifle is always at the ready to pull this off. I’ve never found myself in that situation, because I tend to stalk rather than surprise game, when hunting.

If you’re going hog blasting/pest control, then by all means consider wide FOV/low magnification optics. I’d also suggest a semi-automatic is probably a better fit there, unless you’re just going for cool points or practice. Even then, you’re probably best served setting up in position then shooting from a scope set to low magnification, not worrying about offset RDS with your high-mag scope. If you’re stumbling into a thicket full of hogs then trying to CQB them all with a bolt gun, you’ve probably done it wrong.

 

[diderr]

Test dot off my 22 pistol until I get an rmr

 

[diderr]

The only downsides are:

1) Cost
2) Weight
3) Snags

Only you can answer if the trade offs are worth it to you. If you carry capped scope all the time and find yourself needing to rapidly shoot at targets with enough frequency to offset the downsides, it sounds like it makes sense. Just make sure your rifle is always at the ready to pull this off. I’ve never found myself in that situation, because I tend to stalk rather than surprise game, when hunting.

If you’re going hog blasting/pest control, then by all means consider wide FOV/low magnification optics. I’d also suggest a semi-automatic is probably a better fit there, unless you’re just going for cool points or practice. Even then, you’re probably best served setting up in position then shooting from a scope set to low magnification, not worrying about offset RDS with your high-mag scope. If you’re stumbling into a thicket full of hogs then trying to CQB them all with a bolt gun, you’ve probably done it wrong.

I usually stalk game but in the country I hunt you have to follow the drainages sometimes to get to the high spots and I’ve pushed enough deer doing this that it might be worth it. We will see. If it doesn’t work for my it can go on another build like a AR with a 1-6 or 1-8

 

[CK1.0]

I was running an RMR on top of my bolt gun for a while and I say go for it.

I’m don’t really hunt, so no thoughts on that specifically, but I have found it handy for PRS/NRL matches. Especially on stages when you’ve got multiple targets spread out over a field or something, and when a couple other stages are set up on the same field simultaneously where things can get confusing (any match at K&M is a perfect example of this).

I find the dot a hell of a lot easier (and faster) than trying to zoom in and out using a throw-lever. I just run my dot “zeroed” at 500 yards and it works great.

I’m going to swap the RMR to a Holosun 403R T-2 clone though, found out the hard way at the GAP Grind in the pouring rain that the RMR is useless once the emitter gets wet.

Something to be aware of: on an offset mount they can be kind of a PITA to “zero” and weird to get behind in some positions, it’s not like an offset dot on an AR at all, so IMHO mounting on top of your scope is much better and easier to live with.

 

[Milf Dots]

Just know that Holosun is a name invented to be more palatable to westerners by a 100 percent Chinese company called Huanic- originally funded by the CCP.

 

[CK1.0]

Just know that Holosun is a name invented to be more palatable to westerners by a 100 percent Chinese company called Huanic- originally funded by the CCP.

Well, just know they make a great red dot, especially the HS403R with the rheostat.

I don't care about politics, this is a rifle shooting forum, I don't come here for that.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I ran one on mine for a while. It was never used for close shots but for quickly getting on targets at range quickly. Worked great for match shooting when you have multiple targets scattered all over the range. It’s easier and quicker sometimes to look in the forest Jon of target, pick it up with the red dot and then when you get on scope you’re on target or in the immediate vicinity

 

[Gtar]

I made a new top ring half to mount a little Docter red dot on my 22 for rimfire PRS stuff. It's great for getting on the right target quickly as well as for closer shooting without dialling or holding over/under.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I'm just waiting for ARC to release the RMR bridge for the M-brace mount. I don't want to use the pic bridge then a pic adapter mount for a red dot. Direct bolt on to the bridge is much lower profile and esthetically pleasing.

 

[SFree]

I'm just waiting for ARC to release the RMR bridge for the M-brace mount. I don't want to use the pic bridge then a pic adapter mount for a red dot. Direct bolt on to the bridge is much lower profile and esthetically pleasing.

For me it should be very similar to the Badger Condition 1 mount with an Aimpoint T2…

 

[diderr]

Thanks for the info guys!

 

[Milf Dots]

Well, just know they make a great red dot, especially the HS403R with the rheostat.

I don't care about politics, this is a rifle shooting forum, I don't come here for that.

Their red dots are over hyped and not duty rated, but lots of YT channel guys get free optics for promoting them. I provided the info in case patriotic Americans weren't aware, so they could avoid the CCP funded company.

It's not about politics, it's about knowledge, ethics, and freedom. Some people get it and some don't.

 

[CK1.0]

Their red dots are over hyped and not duty rated, but lots of YT channel guys get free optics for promoting them. I provided the info in case patriotic Americans weren't aware, so they could avoid the CCP funded company.

It's not about politics, it's about knowledge, ethics, and freedom. Some people get it and some don't.

I don't know what duty rated means to you (because it sounds like you don't know either), but I know they're fine for if no one is shooting back and about as good as an $800 Aimpoint, because I have one of those too, and have used more than a couple different ones over the years protecting your freedom to be a douchbag. You're welcome.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I don't know what duty rated means to you (because it sounds like you don't know either), but I now they're fine for if no one is shooting back and about as good as an $800 Aimpoint, because I have one of those too, and have used more than a couple different ones over the years protecting your freedom to be a douchbag. You're welcome.

I hear you. They're probably a decent red dot. A lot of people like them. His original point was, every one that is sold from Holosun, the money goes directly into the pockets our our strongest enemy that wants to destroy your freedoms and your country. It goes directly to the CCP as there are no real "private" companies in China.

 

[CK1.0]

I hear you. They're probably a decent red dot. A lot of people like them. His original point was, every one that is sold from Holosun, the money goes directly into the pockets our our strongest enemy that wants to destroy your freedoms and your country. It goes directly to the CCP as there are no real "private" companies in China.

Seriously, I don't come here for politics... but he probably has a MAGA sticker on his minivan that was made in china, so he can fuck off.

My choice of firearms kit is not a reflection of my ethics or politics. Buy whatever red dot makes you happy.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Seriously, I don't come here for politics... but he probably has a MAGA sticker on his minivan that was made in china, so he can fuck off.

My choice of firearms kit is not a reflection of my ethics or politics. Buy whatever red dot makes you happy.

Also understood, but whether you like it or not, just bc you're not here for the politics doesn't mean that the "politics" aren't there for you. IJS. Believe me, entities like the CCP love the fact that so many Americans don't care about where there money goes.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

We are indeed in competition with Russia and China but not buying a holosun optic is like reaching down onto the beach of all the other shit you consume as an American and picking out one singular grain of sand and throwing it at a Chinese soldier hoping it will do something.

I wonder what Chinese tools, packaging, parts, and accessories american made red dot companies use to make the optics you do buy

Also a very good point that I wish weren't true. My only rebuttal would be, help where you can. Just like I won't buy Levi blue jeans anymore nor do I watch NFL anymore (I miss the blue jeans way more than football). I dont consciously support entities that hate me, my lifestyle, or my freedom. Some things are just unavoidable though.

 

[CK1.0]

Look on the bright side, I would like to think there is a certain amount of poetic justice in the CCP unintentionally subsidizing anti-communist-bad-assery, by putting good quality affordable red dots in the hands of those who can become proficient with them in the way only a free American or other free person can.

 

[Milf Dots]

I hear you. They're probably a decent red dot. A lot of people like them. His original point was, every one that is sold from Holosun, the money goes directly into the pockets our our strongest enemy that wants to destroy your freedoms and your country. It goes directly to the CCP as there are no real "private" companies in China.

You "get it". Thank you for being based and awake.

Regarding duty rated, those CCP optics don't have the water resistance ratings of true duty optics like their model for model equivalents made by Trijicon and Aimpoint. Even the optics gurus at one of the other gun forums who do a ton of long term testing admit that HS optics have a higher rate of problems out of the box than the duty rated brands above.

The main American proponent of HS, AC, has said more than once they're good optics but not as good as Trijicon and Aimpoint.

Buyers of HS never want to think about the hidden costs to the free world associated with buying CCP products made by Chinese people earning slave wages.

 

[CK1.0]

(insert fucking emoji of head hitting wall here)

 

[BLKWLFK9]

So, is a 1 moa dot pretty much the way to go or bigger? I would think the smaller dot would be better for further targets but ive never looked through a red dot at a target 500 yards away before.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

If you're going to mount one - IMO at the 12 is the way to go if you can clear your turret without placing the RDS too high.

In my example, the top of the turret blocks 20% of the bottom view looking through the Aimpoint. But thats still larger than what you get from an RMR so thats ok.

I run this setup at local matches (its actually my hunting optics package but its fast and works out to 500 so far.)

 

[Milf Dots]

So, is a 1 moa dot pretty much the way to go or bigger? I would think the smaller dot would be better for further targets but ive never looked through a red dot at a target 500 yards away before.

For long guns the 2-4 moa dot size is popular. For handguns 3-6 moa.

 

[CK1.0]

So, is a 1 moa dot pretty much the way to go or bigger? I would think the smaller dot would be better for further targets but ive never looked through a red dot at a target 500 yards away before.

Use whatever you prefer or have lying around… unless it’s on a hunting rig, the dot on a bolt gun is just to get you on target quickly (then you get back behind your scope).

In general I’m a “bigger is better” guy when it comes to dots (to a point), especially on a pistol. I prefer a 5moa dot for most stuff if I can get one. I’ve been using a 5moa SRO on my USPSA CO gun, PCC’s, and AR’s and in-practice I haven’t lost any precision at the distances you shoot with those, larger dot just is faster and seems less twitchy. I also like a 2moa dot, but that’s probably because that’s what I’ve used the most over the years. YMMV

 

[BLKWLFK9]

My use for a RDS on my bolt gun will strictly be for target acquisition speed at distance. 500+ yards. Ive got 6 moa dots on my pistols and i forgot the size dot on my SBR thats set up for close range targets.

 

[diderr]

What I got coming. I had a 3.25 on one of my glocks and it was good size for pistol range targets. I hope the 1 moa will be good for the long range target referencing and could turn up brightness if I planned on shooting with it

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Well, you definitely need the gold standard of tough, American made $500 RDS so it doesn't lose zero while acting as a general purpose front sight post

Facts. I wonder if ZCO makes a red dot??

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I dont have a hard time finding targets, I just want to find them faster. I've shot PRS matches since 2017 without one but wanted to see what all the rage was about. I might find that it doesn't speed up acquisition at all and sell it, or find that I like it. Who knows..

 

[Milf Dots]

Well, you definitely need the gold standard of tough, American made $500 RDS so it doesn't lose zero while acting as a general purpose front sight post

The slightly smaller duty rated RMRcc (but the viewable window area isn't much smaller than a regular RMR) can be had on a regular basis for about $400.

As a general principle- buying a full CCP optic or light is a result of either being a naive fool, a traitorous douchebag, or both.

 

[Milf Dots]

What I got coming. I had a 3.25 on one of my glocks and it was good size for pistol range targets. I hope the 1 moa will be good for the long range target referencing and could turn up brightness if I planned on shooting with it

It's sad that I even have to say it but it's where we're at even in the gun community- THANK YOU for not buying a Chinese Communist Party optic or light like Holosun or Olight.

You'd think after decades of China's evil acts against the free world, capped off with their wuhan flu cover up and intentional allowance of international flights out of Wuhan but not domestic air travel- that at least Americans in the gun world would unite against buying gun related stuff from CCP companies... The 2A community is supposed to be smarter and more patriotic.

 

[CK1.0]

Kind of off topic but related....

In all seriousness, using reference points and indexing on gun -> target line may be a transferable technique to other aspects of competition. I think if you mention reference points and pointing the barrel in the general direction of the target to most people, they'd be like, " yeah, yeah, yeah, I do that". But I don't think most people are very deliberate about it. It's just a generalization "pointing".

Setting the rifle in it's position or support, envisioning the length of the barrel on gun target line, and moving your body squarely behind the invisible line helps me find targets in the scope and more importantly minimizes fidgeting in position and preserves position-building with natural point of aim.

In addition to maintaining a natural point of aim while indexing targets and panning across a range in a stage like a troop line I think it also helps you minimize time when you step into position on a barricade. I see a lot of people walk up to barricades and then decide how they want to drop down at the position. There's a lot of shifting of feed and getting into position. In the combat marksmanship world, you train to simply approach and simply walk into a position where you want your feet to be to engage targets. I liken it to walking up a set of stairs. Nobody walks up to the stairs and then shuffles their feet to figure out where they need to be to lift their foot on the first step. But people do it when they walk up to a barricade. Your final steps as you walk to a barricade should be putting your feet right in the spot where they need to be for you to drop down into a kneeling position. But the only way to know where your position behind the barricade should be so that it supports a proper natural point of aim is by using your gun target line as you're starting to lay the rifle down on the barricade. So it all goes hand in hand. I ran a stage at a match where I had people one meter off a barricade, step into position, drop down and fire one round at a large plate at 200 yards on a pro timer. The goal was 6 secs, 10 secs was acceptable. It was just an exercise of efficiency and trimming time without rushing. There is no time in that for fishing for targets in your scope. And probably not using a red dot.

I agree with you and think you're absolutely right, like most times, training is the answer.

I pulled the RMR off my gun when I got back from the GAP grind, so it's been over 2 months now without one, and I've definitely gotten better at just using the gun's barrel to point me at the targets. Indexing with the barrel just like I had been doing with the red dot. As I've practiced it more consciously, I have totally seen an improvement. When you used the word "deliberate" I think you nailed it.

That said, from a gamer perspective, and maybe a tactical perspective too depending on what one is doing (urban counter-sniper role comes to mind), maybe in certain scenarios only, the dot can be a real help and make getting on target faster IMHO. But, I have been trying to go without one for a while on purpose, because I don't want the dot to become a crutch that I can't operate without. I found out already that there's always a chance the dot will malfunction or not be there when I need it.

My first match at K&M I got totally lost scanning for targets when they had like ~4 stages all scattered across the same section of field with multiple targets sort of all over the place and I did pretty poor, mostly because I was confused and kept double and triple checking if I was engaging the correct target before I'd send one... Since then, I've shot 2 other matches there that had similar setups on the same section of field, and I did as good or better than most of the better guys in my squads, simply because I was able to get on target quicker than all but the best of them due to the dot just making life easier on me.

I'd say this: if someone's scope didn't come with a throw-lever, and they were about to spend ~$60+ on one, I'd say if speed is the ultimate goal, skip the throw-lever and spend a couple more bucks and just get a dot...

 

[diderr]

I spent $430 on it and if I don’t like it on my boltgun it will go on a AR offset with a 1-8 NX8 or another Handgun. I couldn’t put a Chinese optic on my gun

 

[diderr]

It's sad that I even have to say it but it's where we're at even in the gun community- THANK YOU for not buying a Chinese Communist Party optic or light like Holosun or Olight.

You'd think after decades of China's evil acts against the free world, capped off with their wuhan flu cover up and intentional allowance of international flights out of Wuhan but not domestic air travel- that at least Americans in the gun world would unite against buying gun related stuff from CCP companies... The 2A community is supposed to be smarter and more patriotic.

Always ran surefire for lights and American made scopes and RDSs

 

[samb300]

Does anyone know if there are any rumors of a new RMR coming out any time soon? Been thinking about picking one up for a pistol, but the type 2 RMR is already a few years old.

 

[diderr]

Does anyone know if there are any rumors of a new RMR coming out any time soon? Been thinking about picking one up for a pistol, but the type 2 RMR is already a few years old.

I haven’t heard anything. I doubt it since they released the rmcc and the SRO. This will be the second RMR I’ve owned and have no complaints with the first one. Just be sure to buy the manual adjust one. You can always put it on auto-brightness if you want too

 

[samb300]

Bummer. Maybe there will be a surprise at shot show (if that still exists? Lol)

Rmcc makes no sense to me, even on small concealed carry pistols. I like the SRO for a plinking gun, but have concerns of long term durability compared to the RMR.

Maybe I’ll just buy an RMR, that will pretty much ensure a new one gets announced a week later

 

[diderr]

Bummer. Maybe there will be a surprise at shot show (if that still exists? Lol)

Rmcc makes no sense to me, even on small concealed carry pistols. I like the SRO for a plinking gun, but have concerns of long term durability compared to the RMR.

Maybe I’ll just buy an RMR, that will pretty much ensure a new one gets announced a week later

Yeah I almost bought the SRO for the offset on my boltgun but I’ve heard the aren’t incredibly durable

 

[diderr]

I like it! Can’t do 12 because it blocks too much of the window but this is nice also

 

[Krob95]

I like it! Can’t do 12 because it blocks too much of the window but this is nice also

What size dot??

 

[diderr]

What size dot??

1 moa. No regrets on it!

 

[Krob95]

I wish I could've gotten the 1MOA dot but all my local Cabelas had was a 3.25 and I got the last one. Unfortunately I was constrained to them since I got a ton of gift cards from work. Hopefully it'll work still.

 

[diderr]

I was really close to buying the 3.25. Turning up the brightness it can resemble a 3.25 in daylight if you want (had one on one of my Glocks)

 

[diderr]

12:00. I might keep it here. I tried to boresight off the 45 and since it’s not inline with the bore I felt like I was chasing my tail with the; up is down and right and left is up and right movements

 

[Krob95]

I'm gonna go 12 o clock. I bought the spacer for the Spuhr RMR mount as I thought the RAPTAR rail would be obnoxiously tall with the RMR on there lol

 

[diderr]

I'm gonna go 12 o clock. I bought the spacer for the Spuhr RMR mount as I thought the RAPTAR rail would be obnoxiously tall with the RMR on there lol

Awesome! Was looking at going the SPUHR route today and that would be $460 with rings and the interface mount. Don’t know if I’m ready to go that route yet

 

[Krob95]

i feel ya man. I had buyers remorse with the first one I bought lol

 

[diderr]

i feel ya man. I had buyers remorse with the first one I bought lol

Spuhr is arguably the best in the game and they know it

 

[diderr]

Little update! Finally got to the range and the RMR dialed in close enough for now. Mount 45 degree off the scope is definitely a PITA to dial in for impacts!!! And if anyone needs a solid RMR cover I got this one off Amazon and seems like it will do the job and last a while

 

[Tritiumdials]

Little update! Finally got to the range and the RMR dialed in close enough for now. Mount 45 degree off the scope is definitely a PITA to dial in for impacts!!! And if anyone needs a solid RMR cover I got this one off Amazon and seems like it will do the job and last a while

Why did you choose to do a converging zero with the offset red dot at your chosen distance?