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Gunsmithing Okay I give up...can anybody get this POF to shoot? Smith wanted...

dmike

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 18, 2012
337
5
51
Northern VA
Sorry to any evangelicals out there but I have tried everything and it never gets better than about 1.2 MOA and it goes up to 2+. Driver issue? Anything is possible but seems like I'd get lucky at some point. I'll be the first to tell you I'm no expert, but this thing seems to suggest it's more than a driver issue. It's definitely been good for teaching me to focus on fundamentals, chasing any degree of consistency but enough is enough.

P308 14.5" 1:10

FAQs to save some time hopefully:
1. Is it the glass?
Could be. I have an SWFA SS on there now with Leupold rings. Bases at 65 inch-pounds, rings at 24 inch-pounds. In the beginning I had my Mark IV 4.5-14 on there, same results so I put the Leupold on a different rig that seemed more deserving. I have an 8-32 nxs I could throw on there if you think it's the SS.

2. Ammo?
I've tried a LOT of factory, factory match, load workups, you name it. 110-180 I believe. 175 GMM shoots about the same as Ventura M80 (example of a cartridge with lots of variability in HS, seating depth etc). In my load workups I'll get a 3-shot group that hints at a node but when I follow up to explore it's nowhere to be found.

3. Maybe I suck at handloading?
Probably, but scroll down for comparison photos from yesterday. 200yds, load workups. Just an example of my typical experience with equal time invested in both of these rifles. Best & worst groups from the GAP-10 vs best & worst from the POF on this particular day. Granted different powders, bullets etc but included to show that I have some kind of process and very basic ability to experiment with case prep, powder selection, charge, seating depth etc.

4. Must be the driver.
Still learning, yes. GI is not the same as piston, I get it. But does that explain the difference between a .75" group at 200 yards and a 2.5" group at 200 yards? Or is 1.2 MOA as good as it gets for me no matter who does what to this rifle?

5. How dare you compare GAP to POF...
Not comparing, showing photos to give info on load workup process and shooter baseline since that's what a lot of initial responses will focus on

6. Why don't you just (insert DIY suggestion here...tighten, bed, replace, etc) open to suggestions but I am not a gunsmith. I don't mind learning but if I am going to spend the time & money to learn it probably won't be on an ar-10.

7. Just sell it!
I could. I'm going to be honest so it wouldn't get full price out of anyone, just wondering what my options are to try to salvage some shooting potential out of it.

8. Send it to POF, they'll fix it...
Tried that, twice, on my own dime. The first time they admitted it wouldn't shoot, claimed they replaced the barrel but did not even test fire it with the new barrel to see if that fixed it. Sent it back again. No comms, just showed up in the mail one day and shot the same as always. If I pay that much to ship it again it's going to be to someone who 1. intends to fix it and 2. knows how to communicate with the customer.

I know an ar piston isn't going to beat a GI or bolt pound for pound on accuracy, that's not the point. I believe there are folks out there that know how to put together a piston rifle to get the best consistency the design will allow. Folks who take pride in their work. Just looking for recommendations on who those people are.

The thing I love about the Hide is this community of great folks with so much knowledge and advice. I'm learning a lot from all of you. I'm looking forward to hearing from you, even if it's not nice, because I'll learn from that too. Thanks much.
 

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Kudos to wheres-waldo for getting this POF P308 on track! Excellent work. Great communication, attention to detail, quality. Still doing load dev with the new barrel but already seeing major improvements over how it shot from the factory. I will post groups once I get the load locked in. This rifle was the source of a lot of frustration, sent back to mfr twice but not fixed. Wheres-Waldo turned the whole thing around and now I'm excited to get it back out to the range. Thanks much Brother!! Highly recommended, now I'm trying to talk him into a custom build.
 
What exactly was done? Just a barrel replacement? Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have the exact same gun but I put a UBR stock on it and SSA-E trigger which really helped tighten up my groups. With my Leupold Mark4 3.5-10x40 in NF UL Ti rings it shoots sub moa all day long and best group is under 1/2" at 100yds with 168gr AMAX Match ammo. I really want to put an 18" barrel on this gun, either another Mike Rock or a Bartlein. Talked to G.A Precision about doing it but they require changing the gas system with a new barrel installation.
 
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New barrel, contoured/blued/threaded, tapped heavy screws on the rail/upper...he tried to salvage the factory barrel but the gas port was between land/groove and the rifling lead in angle was too abrupt.

I know some are shooters but this one was not. Now I love it
 
What barrel did you end up going with? Same 14.5" with pinned brake or longer?
 
What exactly was done? Just a barrel replacement? Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have the exact same gun but I put a UBR stock on it and SSA-E trigger which really helped tighten up my groups. With my Leupold Mark4 3.5-10x40 in NF UL Ti rings it shoots sub moa all day long and best group is under 1/2" at 100yds with 168gr AMAX Match ammo. I really want to put an 18" barrel on this gun, either another Mike Rock or a Bartlein. Talked to G.A Precision about doing it but they require changing the gas system with a new barrel installation.

How is the ubr?
 
Oh nice. Im a huge UBR fan. Have one on my P308 and on my AR15 Recce rifle.

I know you had issues but POF cs has been great to me. They sent me the buffer and spring to use with the UBR so it runs properly when I called to ask what buffer to use
 
I might need to check out the UBRs! Glad you got great cs with pof, I know every company has their ups and downs. I don't read too much into the bad experiences I had with them but I can't give them any more of my money
 
Did you swap out the stock trigger yet? I went from shooting .55-.75 groups with the stock trigger to shooting one ragged hole under .50" with an SSA-E. The Geissele is amazing and well worth the money.
 
Did you swap out the stock trigger yet? I went from shooting .55-.75 groups with the stock trigger to shooting one ragged hole under .50" with an SSA-E. The Geissele is amazing and well worth the money.

Man I'm on the fence! I had the ssa-e on my gap 10 and it was definitely fantastic. I still have the red timney right now, hard to throw away a "$200" timney even though I want to upgrade.
 
I here you, I have the red Timney sitting in the closet. The SSA-E really tightened up my groups. Got it NIB off the Hide for $185 shipped. There are some in the For Sale section right now for below retail.