Old Leupold Scope - Can anyone help with manual/details?

[The K]

I have an old Leupold scope that was bought in the 1990s and manual and box since long lost due to moving continents a few times. From memory and what I can see on the scope:

1. it is a 4.5-14x with external knob for focusing on the left side of the scope (marked with a curve to infinity symbol at the end and about half the size of the windage and elevation towers)

2. USMC mil dot reticle (oval dots) with 4 dots on each "leg" ending in a thick post that from memory marks the 5th mil exactly

3. height and windage towers that have 1/4 clicks.

4. The scope has a starlight reticle with thick outer posts that get illuminated if "charged" by shining a light into the scope.

5. I seem to recall that it was the Leupold Mk IV

6. it has a 56mm outer opening and 32mm eyepiece opening with about 26mm tube

The questions I have are:

1. Are the clicks on the windage and elevation 1/4 mil or 1/4 MOA?

2. Is there a manual for this scope that can be sourced anywhere? I tried Leupold but even the next version of this scope (with battery illuminated reticle) has been discontinued so I doubt I can get anything from them.

Thank you to anyone that can help with this.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

You should be able to determine the turrent clicks and reticle from an easy range test.

Shoot a group at 100, shoot second group using a hold over from the reticle, measure and it tells you the reticle systems.

Move turrents 12 clicks down, 12 clicks to a side, shoot a group and this will tell you what system your adjustments are.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

Pretty sure Leupold kept putting MOA turrets on MilDot scopes up until about 2012 for some reason. Sounds like a 1" tube, MilDot reticle and I'd assume it has 1/4 MOA turrets.

 

[Terry Cross]

I have an old Leupold scope that was bought in the 1990s and manual and box since long lost due to moving continents a few times. From memory and what I can see on the scope:

1. it is a 4.5-14x with external knob for focusing on the left side of the scope (marked with a curve to infinity symbol at the end and about half the size of the windage and elevation towers)

2. USMC mil dot reticle (oval dots) with 4 dots on each "leg" ending in a thick post that from memory marks the 5th mil exactly

3. height and windage towers that have 1/4 clicks.

4. The scope has a starlight reticle with thick outer posts that get illuminated if "charged" by shining a light into the scope.

5. I seem to recall that it was the Leupold Mk IV

6. it has a 56mm outer opening and 32mm eyepiece opening with about 26mm tube

The questions I have are:

1. Are the clicks on the windage and elevation 1/4 mil or 1/4 MOA?

2. Is there a manual for this scope that can be sourced anywhere? I tried Leupold but even the next version of this scope (with battery illuminated reticle) has been discontinued so I doubt I can get anything from them.

Thank you to anyone that can help with this.

The turrets are definitely 1/4 MOA click intervals. Likely their M1 style turrets.
I think it was maybe late 90s to 2000s before Leupold even made their first scopes with Mil adjustments at all. Premier did turret conversions but I do not think they ever converted MOA to MIL.

Most likely, Dick at Premier Reticles did a reticle conversion. Through the 80s and 90s Leupold actually sold OEM internal components to Premier and Leupold would even warranty scopes that Premier had previously been in. Most of the reticle work done by Premier was with their own custom reticles.

For a short period in the late 70s and through most of the 80s, the Leupold custom shop did some very custom work on certain scopes so it is possible their custom shop converted the reticle but my bet is on Premier.

Wally Siebart did a ton of Leupold power boosts and target reticles but I don't think ever offered anything close to Mil-Dot patterns.

I was told that Leupold had all of their old manuals saved to PDF. If true, you may be able to get the corresponding manual for the original form of your scope.

I have a couple of suggestions:

1: Your scope will have a Serial Number engraved on it somewhere. Most likely on the bottom of the turret suite. Your original model ID may also be marked there but not likely. If the model is not marked under the turret suite, it should be printed on the gold or black ring around your objective. You would be able to take this specific information back to the right person at Leupold and get some production info.

2: In 1825, Joseph Nicephore Niepce made the first camera for photography purposes. If you would fucking use at least his original 1825 versions or better and include the image in your post, it would likely assist getting more information from this forum.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Pretty sure Leupold kept putting MOA turrets on MilDot scopes up until about 2012 for some reason. Sounds like a 1" tube, MilDot reticle and I'd assume it has 1/4 MOA turrets.

Prolly a 30mm tube.
I don't think Leupy ever made scopes with 1" tubes in this range with side parallax knobs. I think all their 1" scopes had AO if adjustable at all.

./

 

[spife7980]

2: In 1825, Joseph Nicephore Niepce made the first camera for photography purposes. If you would fucking use at least his original 1825 versions or better and include the image in your post, it would likely assist getting more information from this forum.

 

[308pirate]

2: In 1825, Joseph Nicephore Niepce made the first camera for photography purposes. If you would fucking use at least his original 1825 versions or better and include the image in your post, it would likely assist getting more information from this forum.

 

[The K]

The turrets are definitely 1/4 MOA click intervals. Likely their M1 style turrets.
I think it was maybe late 90s to 2000s before Leupold even made their first scopes with Mil adjustments at all. Premier did turret conversions but I do not think they ever converted MOA to MIL.

Most likely, Dick at Premier Reticles did a reticle conversion. Through the 80s and 90s Leupold actually sold OEM internal components to Premier and Leupold would even warranty scopes that Premier had previously been in. Most of the reticle work done by Premier was with their own custom reticles.

For a short period in the late 70s and through most of the 80s, the Leupold custom shop did some very custom work on certain scopes so it is possible their custom shop converted the reticle but my bet is on Premier.

Wally Siebart did a ton of Leupold power boosts and target reticles but I don't think ever offered anything close to Mil-Dot patterns.

I was told that Leupold had all of their old manuals saved to PDF. If true, you may be able to get the corresponding manual for the original form of your scope.

I have a couple of suggestions:

1: Your scope will have a Serial Number engraved on it somewhere. Most likely on the bottom of the turret suite. Your original model ID may also be marked there but not likely. If the model is not marked under the turret suite, it should be printed on the gold or black ring around your objective. You would be able to take this specific information back to the right person at Leupold and get some production info.

2: In 1825, Joseph Nicephore Niepce made the first camera for photography purposes. If you would fucking use at least his original 1825 versions or better and include the image in your post, it would likely assist getting more information from this forum.

./

hahahaha thanks, and yes, I should add a picture, but then I would miss out on replies like yours that actually made me laugh. Thanks for the help and the information, very educational. And YES it is a Premier Reticle, you are correct. Thanks again, I knew there would be a cool gun nerd out there that could help. Really appreciate it.

 

[The K]

Prolly a 30mm tube.
I don't think Leupy ever made scopes with 1" tubes in this range with side parallax knobs. I think all their 1" scopes had AO if adjustable at all.

./

No, it is definitely less than 30mm I think Pvt. Donut got this right at 1" tube.

 

[The K]

You should be able to determine the turrent clicks and reticle from an easy range test.

Shoot a group at 100, shoot second group using a hold over from the reticle, measure and it tells you the reticle systems.

Move turrents 12 clicks down, 12 clicks to a side, shoot a group and this will tell you what system your adjustments are.

Yes I know. I was trying to get the general idea before shooting a bunch of $3 out the rifle just for the basics.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Yes I know. I was trying to get the general idea before shooting a bunch of $3 out the rifle just for the basics.

Putting the reticle over a yard stick at distance should give subtensions. A laser bore sighter at dusk can get you the clicks once you know the reticle.

 

[Terry Cross]

No, it is definitely less than 30mm I think Pvt. Donut got this right at 1" tube.

I was definitely poking fun at you in the previous post regarding cameras, but in all seriousness it would be great for you to post a couple of simple images of the scope.

Not all threads in this forum offer learning opportunities but this one could help inform any interested party including me.
I have not seen (then again my memory is shit these days) a 1" tube Leupy with side parallax knob. Taking note of your example will educate me. Sometimes the teacher, always the student....


./

 

[Terry Cross]

Putting the reticle over a yard stick at distance should give subtensions. A laser bore sighter at dusk can get you the clicks once you know the reticle.

His reticle is absolutely going to have subtensions equating to a Mil at any distance as long as the magnification is set at 14X.
The turret clicks are absolutely 1/4 MOA.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

2. Is there a manual for this scope that can be sourced anywhere? I tried Leupold but even the next version of this scope (with battery illuminated reticle) has been discontinued so I doubt I can get anything from them.

I have a couple of people at Leupold that may can assist.
If you can post the serial number of your scope, the model marked on the front ring and a side profile photo, I will forward to the most senior I have on tap and see if he can point to a manual or PDF / electronic image of same.

./

 

[CoryT]

FWIW, I still have one of those Premier conversions. The USMC reticle is wire, the dots are applied wet (some kind of magic frog snot) and are 1/4 mil in length, no defined width. It breaks down (conveniently?) to 8ths of a mil. The phosphorescent material will break down over time and eventually it will go dead. The reticles are true mils, 3.438 minutes to 1 mil.

Leupold did do conversions of the M1 1/4 MOA knobs to M5 .1 mil knobs for this scope, perhaps they still have parts, you'd have to ask.

 

[The K]

I was definitely poking fun at you in the previous post regarding cameras, but in all seriousness it would be great for you to post a couple of simple images of the scope.

Not all threads in this forum offer learning opportunities but this one could help inform any interested party including me.
I have not seen (then again my memory is shit these days) a 1" tube Leupy with side parallax knob. Taking note of your example will educate me. Sometimes the teacher, always the student....


./

There is a clue in that the sticker says Precision Reticles which I totally missed. I had just assumed it was some kind of WOW LOOK AT ME marketing sticker from Leupold and didn't know it was a separate firm. The quality is not great but best I can do with my ancient phone. I'm curious if you're like a scope-spotter, as in Train-spotters they have in the UK, people that know all sorts of obscure facts about trains, except in your case it's rifle scopes!

 

[The K]

The serial n. is 300672G model is Leupold VariX III 4.5-14 x 50mm LONG RANGE that writing on the front ring is so faint I didn't even know it was there until I looked with a lens.

And I now learnt it's VariX III and not a Mk IV as I thought.

And yes the starlight stuff is degraded already, the thick posts look green but a little chewed up, like old typewriter script and I don't think the mil dots or thin part of the reticle was ever coated in the green stuff, I don't recall as I last looked into it some 25 years ago. But it doesn't light up now anyway.

I shot it a couple of years ago in brand daylight in Africa though and it remains an outstanding scope.

I have a couple of people at Leupold that may can assist.
If you can post the serial number of your scope, the model marked on the front ring and a side profile photo, I will forward to the most senior I have on tap and see if he can point to a manual or PDF / electronic image of same.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

I'm curious if you're like a scope-spotter, as in Train-spotters they have in the UK, people that know all sorts of obscure facts about trains, except in your case it's rifle scopes!

Absolutely not qualified as a scope spotter.

Sweater muffins, definitely and always.
Scopes, sometimes....

./

 

[FatBoy]

I am 99.9999 % sure that is a 30mm tube. It looks like a long range target model that had a reticle conversation.

I have two from them (different mag em ranges) and when Dick was there it was one of the best companies you could hope to work with.

It’s my understanding that when Premier and Leupold split they stopped honoring the warranty, so keep that in mind.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

The serial n. is 300672G model is Leupold VariX III 4.5-14 x 50mm LONG RANGE that writing on the front ring is so faint I didn't even know it was there until I looked with a lens.

And I now learnt it's VariX III and not a Mk IV as I thought.

And yes the starlight stuff is degraded already, the thick posts look green but a little chewed up, like old typewriter script and I don't think the mil dots or thin part of the reticle was ever coated in the green stuff, I don't recall as I last looked into it some 25 years ago. But it doesn't light up now anyway.

I shot it a couple of years ago in brand daylight in Africa though and it remains an outstanding scope.

The only thing I can add to this thread is the direct predecessor to the MK4 was the VariX-III Tactical. I believe what you have is a model prior to the "Tactical".

 

[Terry Cross]

Message sent to a couple of Leupy peeps.
I still kinda think you are holding a 30mm tube.

I will advise what reply I get back.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

The serial n. is 300672G model is Leupold VariX III 4.5-14 x 50mm LONG RANGE that writing on the front ring is so faint I didn't even know it was there until I looked with a lens.

And I now learnt it's VariX III and not a Mk IV as I thought.

I shot it a couple of years ago in brand daylight in Africa though and it remains an outstanding scope.

Ok. Here you go. . . . .
From my Leupy guy:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The scope was manufactured in 1999.
It is a VARI-X III.
The scope had a service performed in March 2010. The windage adjustment had been changed.

The scope is under full warranty except for the Premier reticle.
The only exception to this scope is, if the scope is being serviced and the reticle breaks we will not be held responsible.
A Duplex reticle would be installed for free. Customer needs to agree to this before we do any work on the scope if there is ever a need in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

He did send me a PDF image file of the Owners Handbook that would have come with the scope originally. I have sent that as an attachment to you just now in a PM on this forum. If you cannot retrieve, email me ([email protected]) and I will email the PDF to you direct.

Hope this helps.


./

 

[Whiskey 2-1]

Terry…..always the stand up gentleman

 

[The K]

Terry, I replied

Ok. Here you go. . . . .
From my Leupy guy:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The scope was manufactured in 1999.
It is a VARI-X III.
The scope had a service performed in March 2010. The windage adjustment had been changed.

The scope is under full warranty except for the Premier reticle.
The only exception to this scope is, if the scope is being serviced and the reticle breaks we will not be held responsible.
A Duplex reticle would be installed for free. Customer needs to agree to this before we do any work on the scope if there is ever a need in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

He did send me a PDF image file of the Owners Handbook that would have come with the scope originally. I have sent that as an attachment to you just now in a PM on this forum. If you cannot retrieve, email me ([email protected]) and I will email the PDF to you direct.

Hope this helps.


./

Terry, I replied to your private message, but I wanted to thank you publicly too. You went well beyond my expectations for this and indeed you are correct about the service they did. Funny thing, the guy who built me the 1/2 MOA rifle I had this on is also called Terry by first name and I'm starting to wonder if you're the same guy!

I am now curious based on the email, does this mean that Leupold does not do mil-dot scopes anymore or that because they no longer work with Premier Reticles (I assume they do not?) they can't replace mil dots?

And here...without realising it....Terry is slow dragging me into the scope-spotter's world...before you know it I will be wearing Sweaters and muffins, going from gun store to gun store, scribbling notes on a little notebook on the rarer finds they have on display...

 

[The K]

I am 99.9999 % sure that is a 30mm tube. It looks like a long range target model that had a reticle conversation.

I have two from them (different mag em ranges) and when Dick was there it was one of the best companies you could hope to work with.

It’s my understanding that when Premier and Leupold split they stopped honoring the warranty, so keep that in mind.

Thanks, as Terry managed to confirm below (I read his message first) this is indeed the case. The tube is definitely not 30mm though. See image.

 

[The K]

FWIW, I still have one of those Premier conversions. The USMC reticle is wire, the dots are applied wet (some kind of magic frog snot) and are 1/4 mil in length, no defined width. It breaks down (conveniently?) to 8ths of a mil. The phosphorescent material will break down over time and eventually it will go dead. The reticles are true mils, 3.438 minutes to 1 mil.

Leupold did do conversions of the M1 1/4 MOA knobs to M5 .1 mil knobs for this scope, perhaps they still have parts, you'd have to ask.

Thank You,
I don't think I recall seeing the frog snot fluorescence on the dots or the thin wire, only on the thicker outer posts of the reticle.
But it was a long time ago and I may be misremembering. It certainly doesn't have any functioning frog snot left on these bits now, only on the thick posts on the outer part of the reticle.

 

[FatBoy]

Thanks, as Terry managed to confirm below (I read his message first) this is indeed the case. The tube is definitely not 30mm though. See image.

That would be the first 1” side parallax I have ever seen. I have never even heard of such a thing, especially in the late 90s, early 2000s when I was cutting my teeth and Leupold Vari-X III tactical were the mainstay. I understand the picture looks like 1” and I am certainly open to being wrong and learning but PLEASE make sure this scope fits the rings properly before you put those top ring cap screws in.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

This is a scope my son gave me. A 6.5x20 Leupold. He purchased it when he was in college around 2001-2002. It has Mil Dots and MOA turrets and a 30mm tube. Works for this rifle but the MPA is all MIL.

 

[VSP968]

That would be the first 1” side parallax I have ever seen. I have never even heard of such a thing, especially in the late 90s, early 2000s when I was cutting my teeth and Leupold Vari-X III tactical were the mainstay. I understand the picture looks like 1” and I am certainly open to being wrong and learning but PLEASE make sure this scope fits the rings properly before you put those top ring cap screws in.

Once upon a time, these were the shit.

Here’s a late 90’s vintage VX-III long range box. M1 knobs, mildot, 30mm tube, side focus. This scope is still in service (on a US marked 40X 22LR, I think), but I’m too lazy to open the safe and get it out.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Measure it with calipers, the proportions are wrong to be a 1" tube. I'm pretty sure it is a 4.5-14x50 with 30mm tube.

I'd like to clarify my pervious statement. The Vari-Xiii Tactical was the direct predecessor to the variable power MK4 scopes. The MK4 was around in the 90's but was fixed power only.

 

[The K]

That would be the first 1” side parallax I have ever seen. I have never even heard of such a thing, especially in the late 90s, early 2000s when I was cutting my teeth and Leupold Vari-X III tactical were the mainstay. I understand the picture looks like 1” and I am certainly open to being wrong and learning but PLEASE make sure this scope fits the rings properly before you put those top ring cap screws in.

I most certainly will. It looks like about 26mm which is close enough to be 1" especially if the 1" is the actual lens diameter. I always suspected this scope was a bit of a "grey" product.

 

[The K]

This is a scope my son gave me. A 6.5x20 Leupold. He purchased it when he was in college around 2001-2002. It has Mil Dots and MOA turrets and a 30mm tube. Works for this rifle but the MPA is all MIL.

View attachment 7778483

Aside from the scary red parts and a different trigger and hand grip, that looks pretty close to what mine should look like when I finish setting it up.

 

[FatBoy]

My M3 came off my mk12mod0. It’s currently out of service until I find another rifle for it. Sat atop a Winchester Stealth 308 for about 6000 rounds, which is what I cut my teeth on. It’s an outstanding scope for what it is. Pure meat eater..

The 8.5x25 started off on an anyrifle 6.5x284. After if came off that it moved to a 700/300 300wm. Not a mk4 16x but as close as I have right now and it is one of the most reliable scopes I’ve owned.

These are both from Premier. I don’t know this to be true, but always believed that Dick went over the scopes when he retrofit them as the original PR units seems to track and hold zero better than run of the mill units. Could be wishful thinking but these have been fantastic scopes.

 

[VSP968]

@FatBoy did you notice the part number and UPC difference between my 8.5-25X50 gold box and yours?
They’re exactly the same except my later “long range” model has a P suffix.

My P suffix scope lived atop a R700 .308 through two barrels and approx 16,000 rounds. It was retired from the .308 when it was re-barreled the third time in 2019.
99% of my shooting with this rifle is at 1K.

Like you, I started with one of these things.

 

[FatBoy]

@FatBoy did you notice the part number and UPC difference between my 8.5-25X50 gold box and yours?
They’re exactly the same except my later “long range” model has a P suffix.

My P suffix scope lived atop a R700 .308 through two barrels and approx 16,000 rounds. It was retired from the .308 when it was re-barreled the third time in 2019.
99% of my shooting with this rifle is at 1K.

Like you, I started with one of these things.

Slightly different models maybe? This one was built with the M1 knobs, black vanity ring etc. this was circa 2003~ish purchase. The M3 was maybe mid 2000.

 

[Terry Cross]

I am now curious based on the email, does this mean that Leupold does not do mil-dot scopes anymore or that because they no longer work with Premier Reticles (I assume they do not?) they can't replace mil dots?

Leupold continues to do several variations of Mil based reticles.
They can install such reticles in your scope but not as "Warranty" / no cost.

Since Premier installed a Premier manufactured reticle in your scope, Leupold will not warranty that specific thing if it breaks. They will however warranty the remainder of your scope (turrets, internal springs, erector, lenses, etc.) at no cost to you.

Not even sure if they still make a reticle with "Mil-Dots". Most are evolving to various hash mark variants since modern laser etched reticle manufacturing allows very consistent and high resolution reticle elements compared to the old wire and spider spit methods.

Just prior to Premier being dissolved/bought, there was a bout of bad blood between them and Leupold. During that time, Leupold stopped supplying any OEM components to Premier and stopped accepting scopes Premier had been into regardless of the issue. Shortly thereafter Premier became Premier Ltd. and then not long after dissolved with I believe Tangent Theta acquiring some of their I.P. and business assets. (IIRC)

Per the above, Leupold has softened up on prior Premier conversions and will honor Leupold warranty work on any part of the scope that Premier did not modify.

Hope this makes sense.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Terry, I replied to your private message, but I wanted to thank you publicly too.

You are very welcome.
Now get it mounted and go enjoy using it.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

...before you know it I will be wearing Sweaters and muffins, going from gun store to gun store,. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Just to be fair and get you up to speed on American male references and innuendos, my mention in post #18 of spotting "sweater muffins" has to do with female upper torso anatomy.

Drop that one on them at the pub next time you are out with old friends.

./

 

[The K]

Just to be fair and get you up to speed on American male references and innuendos, my mention in post #18 of spotting "sweater muffins" has to do with female upper torso anatomy.

Drop that one on them at the pub next time you are out with old friends.

./

Ah! And here I was thinking you used Hemingway type Sweaters with gloves that have no individual fingers as you salivated over other men's scopes at the range. I am glad to know you have healthier pursuits.

Personally I always found the sweaters to be very deceptive so focused on extensive "au naturelle" inspections until I finally got married a few years ago and have decided to focus my detailed studies on a single specimen for my old age, although, of course, I still take an interest in passing observation.

 

[DetroitRearView]

One of the best resources I know old Leupold and others…

Vintage Gun Scopes

Vintage Weaver, Redfield and other Vintage Rifle Scopes, Guns, scope rings and mounts for sale.

www.vintagegunscopes.com

 

[bigbuck10940]

Terry, I replied

Terry, I replied to your private message, but I wanted to thank you publicly too. You went well beyond my expectations for this and indeed you are correct about the service they did. Funny thing, the guy who built me the 1/2 MOA rifle I had this on is also called Terry by first name and I'm starting to wonder if you're the same guy!

I am now curious based on the email, does this mean that Leupold does not do mil-dot scopes anymore or that because they no longer work with Premier Reticles (I assume they do not?) they can't replace mil dots?

And here...without realising it....Terry is slow dragging me into the scope-spotter's world...before you know it I will be wearing Sweaters and muffins, going from gun store to gun store, scribbling notes on a little notebook on the rarer finds they have on display...

Hi K, I have the same vintage leupold vari x III 4.5x14x50 Long Range scope came with a used rifle. I just reached out to Leupold. If it’s not too much trouble could you please email me a copy of the manual ? Thanking you very much in advance. Joe. [email protected]