- Thread starter Paradox
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Yep those were used in Vietnam. Carlos Hathcock set up 50 M2’s with Unertls. If you were careful with the paddle you could pickle off a single round out to rather impressive distances.
About the only modification they had to make was putting Unertal blocks on the top of the Ma Deuce.
This was essentially the inspiration for Barrett a few years later. To make a 50 Cal that was man portable.
Cheers
Here’s a couple more pictures. I don’t believe Hathcock is in any of the photos. And it’s been 20 years since I read marine sniper. But if I recall correctly he was part of developing the concepts. But the use of a .50 for long range sniping so to speak was carried on after he left Vietnam following his injury. (He was badly burned trying to help Marines off a burning Amtrak, IIRC. IED.
There may be some more detailed literature since then on the development. But I know he was one of the early users even if not one of the actual developers of the system.
Cheers
Yep, looks like Gunny's contraption. Supposedly he shot a VC who was transporting guns on a bike. If memory serves me, first shot hit the bike, second shot caused a red mist in the air.
The use of .50 BMG's fitted with a Unertl scope via a special receiver mount made by USMC armorers goes back to the early days of the Korean war.
As mentioned already Carlos Hathcock used a similar setup in Vietnam to make his 2500 yard kill.
E.TA.: The 1st photo in post #4 is from the Korean war according to Senichs The Complete Book of U.S. Sniping.
As mentioned already Carlos Hathcock used a similar setup in Vietnam to make his 2500 yard kill.
E.TA.: The 1st photo in post #4 is from the Korean war according to Senichs The Complete Book of U.S. Sniping.
And I don’t know if this variant of the M2 pre-dated or post dated the use of the tripod mount heavy machine gun in Vietnam. But the Pentagon most certainly explored using the M2 as a man portable anti-material gun.
Man portable being a relative term.
Judging by the haircuts and clothing that could’ve been any time between 1955 and 1975. So who knows exactly when those pictures were taken. Although I think forgotten weapons did a segment on the M2 anti-material gun. So there may be some more data there. I just can’t remember when it was all done.
Again this was the inspiration for Barrett to start looking at how to build a relatively lightweight semi automatic 50 caliber anti-materiel gun. I believe McMillan was working on one and came out with the TAC 50??? which was a bolt action. And I remember there was a company in the late 1980s in the Houston area that got a few guns into military testing. But I can’t remember the name of that one.
Buffalo Winter will probably know who I’m talking about.
But I think Barrett got all the good press both because of the Gulf War and because of their excellent product placement in Charlie Sheen‘s Navy SEALs movie which may be one of the worst movies ever made. But it had a Barrett in it.
There was another oddball movie called the November Man. I don’t think it ever made it into wide circulation but it was played at the Houston film festival around 1993. And it had a interesting Sniper angle and Barrett in it as well. Neat movie. I wish it was somewhere where you could watch it. I have an old VHS tape but I bet it doesn’t work anymore.
And by then the cut rate bolt action rifles were starting to come out like the LAR grizzly. Which was clunky and goofy. But built like a brick outhouse. And started to make the 50 Cal affordable for civilian shooters.
Cheers
Man portable being a relative term.
Judging by the haircuts and clothing that could’ve been any time between 1955 and 1975. So who knows exactly when those pictures were taken. Although I think forgotten weapons did a segment on the M2 anti-material gun. So there may be some more data there. I just can’t remember when it was all done.
Again this was the inspiration for Barrett to start looking at how to build a relatively lightweight semi automatic 50 caliber anti-materiel gun. I believe McMillan was working on one and came out with the TAC 50??? which was a bolt action. And I remember there was a company in the late 1980s in the Houston area that got a few guns into military testing. But I can’t remember the name of that one.
Buffalo Winter will probably know who I’m talking about.
But I think Barrett got all the good press both because of the Gulf War and because of their excellent product placement in Charlie Sheen‘s Navy SEALs movie which may be one of the worst movies ever made. But it had a Barrett in it.
There was another oddball movie called the November Man. I don’t think it ever made it into wide circulation but it was played at the Houston film festival around 1993. And it had a interesting Sniper angle and Barrett in it as well. Neat movie. I wish it was somewhere where you could watch it. I have an old VHS tape but I bet it doesn’t work anymore.
And by then the cut rate bolt action rifles were starting to come out like the LAR grizzly. Which was clunky and goofy. But built like a brick outhouse. And started to make the 50 Cal affordable for civilian shooters.
Cheers
Looks like one of the larger tube Unertls.
How many moa of down angle do you think were built into those bases??
Sirhr
In these days of all this high tech crap,, its amazing what he did back in the day, with relatively basic Win Model 70 and those prehistoric scopes of the day.
Meanwhile, in 1863…. “Hold my Oh-be-Joyful and watch this.
Long distance military marksman be they what we now call snipers or mere “Morgan’s/Berdans Riflemen” from the past… have a long history of doing things in interesting ways.
Sirhr
Everything ive read concerning Marine Corps use in Korea and Vietnam say the scopes were the standard issue 8x.
Marine Sniper specifically mentions Hathcock using the scope from his Winchester 70 on the .50 BMG he used in Nam.
No telling about the Army.
Brophy was known to have ran a Unertl 2" on his Bull Gun, quite possibly one of those in this Korean war era pic of a 50 cal single shot he used to reach out beyond the range of his Winchester.
We had the First "Issued" .50 Cal Sniper Rifle in the USMC
It was different as well.
Leaving names out if it a friend of my dads was a army sniper in Vietnam.
Single shot rifle like a 40x
30-300 I think or something like that. Wasn’t the standard 7.62 stuff.
He had a pic of the ammo box
Overwatch A team and about 700 yards it so there was a “person” walking toward A teams position. He used to joke no one ever shoots at about 1000 yards if they said that magic number they are lying.
His glass wasn’t good enough but he thought he was carrying a long pipe/rifle.
Said he had to shoot even though he wasn’t sure of target as he was closing in to location.
Wound up being a farmer carrying a shovel. He said you forget they were at war for decades, they still had to live.
He didn’t feel bad because you could t tell who was who but he “didn’t like that one.”
Edit:
Found the info;
REM 40x
30-338 ammo
I was close lol
Last edited:
Iver Johnson/Daisy
the m2's can be fired single shot. There was a cylinder on the back by the paddle that you rotate and it clicks in and then your in single shot mode makes it really nice for sighting in night optics and stuff
I've read the book "Inside the Crosshairs: Snipers in Vietnam", by Colonel Michael Lee Lannig that indicates Carlos made a 2500yd. shot w/ a modified M2 on a kid riding a bicycle.
I'd like to believe it's true....
EBBIV: Is your pic of the rig the same one here?:
www.thefirearmblog.com
I'd like to believe it's true....
EBBIV: Is your pic of the rig the same one here?:
For 35 Years, The Longest Sniper Kill Was With a Ma-Duece -
While the current record for the longest “confirmed” sniper kill is over 2,700 yards (just over 1.5) miles, with a .338 Lapua Magnum round, for nearly 35 years the record stood not with a traditional centerfire rifle, but with a modified M2 Browning Heavy Machine Gun, affectionately known as the...
www.thefirearmblog.com 
How many MOA are built into that mount????
Are my eyes just playing tricks on me?
Are my eyes just playing tricks on me?
RAP - research armament prototype from RAI which was sold to Daisy then John Jovino/Iver Johnson which folded and remaining inventory went to Ultimate accuracy. After Daisy, Earl Redick went on to form Redick Arms Development (M91 etc)
Brophy's .50 cal there is a Russian PTRD-41 anti-tank rifle with a modified bolt and a new barrel (possibly a modified M2 barrel) fitted to it to convert it from 14.5x114mm to .50 BMG. US snipers also used captured PTRD-41s in their original calibre. Officially the rifle in 14.5x114mm was effective out to about a kilometer, since they almost never used a scope with it, just super-rudimentary irons. Brophy's modified rifle with its scope was known to be effective out to 1700-1800m.
Kirk Douglas?
Wow, was on the range at my local club yesterday and struck up a convo with a guy who looked to be in his mid-50's and his son (maybe mid-late 20's). Can't remember how it came up about 50 BMG...then about it being used as a sniper gun by Hathcock in VN.
The father told me, just in passing and didn't seem like a brag at all, that his father was a sniper in Korean war and had some level of experience using a 50 cal gun for sniping there.
Now this thread comes up to further inform me.
Interesting stuff.
The father told me, just in passing and didn't seem like a brag at all, that his father was a sniper in Korean war and had some level of experience using a 50 cal gun for sniping there.
Now this thread comes up to further inform me.
Interesting stuff.
Pffft, we could only wish he made stuff to that level.
I think that long range precision marksmen have always been the ones trying to experiment, innovate and exploit the advantages of various firearms, accessories and ammunition.
People use to laugh at some of us trying to hit targets with a .22 LR at 300 yards and beyond. You don't hear them laughing anymore.
I hear the occasional giggle when I set up a shot with a spring powered air rifle on a soup can at 100 yards. They stop laughing when they hear the "clink" and see the can topple.
It was said of the OSS candidate in WWII that they were looking for a PhD that could win a bar fight.
IMHO, a long range precision marksman is a math geek that can turn a sling shot into the mother-of-all-ballistic-terror-weapons that will launch projectiles across the International Date Line.
Kirk was Navy. Sure looks like him though.
Yep, was the CO of USS Nimitz when I was in high school
J/K
Here's him in his real uniform
Plus he got mighty fine poon
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Actually, that's a Davy Crockett... just a kiloton. 1/20th the power of Hiroshima. Megaton would be... suicidal!that's not crazy , this would be crazy to put a scope on
the 1 mega ton atom bomb gun I really don't think your going to miss the splash without a scope
There was a nuclear hand grenade design. Really. Not sure who would have been stupid enough to throw it. But it was designed.
Two of my "Oldie" rifles are a .55 Boys Antitank and a German 13.2mm T-Gewehr. The original Man Portable anti-tank guns.
Both hurt like motherfuckers to fire! The .55 Boys is a lot hotter than a .50 BMG.
Sirhr
That's about right.
I think if you did an IQ test of the folks who pass Marine Recon courses, Q-Course, BUD/S, Scout Sniper programs, any Tier-one training... you'd find their scores were significantly higher than the general population. Probably up in the top few percent. But they are also people not interested in being a hedge fund manager.
There are probably several fields where that is true. Degrees are all well and good. But there are things that matter a lot more than degrees.
Sirhr
any of those boys have the coffee grinder built into the buttstock? Like the greatest invention ever...
I was a 13F for a couple of years and worked with some very intelligent folks.
I've seen photos of an MG42 with that kind of periscope setup.
Periscope sight: Not just MG42, but MG3, and I think being carried over to the MG5. It is on the tripod. You can fire from behind cover. Very different concept of MGs to what we use them for today in the US.
And yup, found one. There's the brand new MG5 on the same tripod:
The early 1900's Maxim had something similar... found one at a gun show a few years ago.
Didn't dare tell the seller that I had a Maxim for it until 'after' he had the pittance I offered him for it. ;-) Hey, it's a gun show. All's fair!
Sirhr
Didn't dare tell the seller that I had a Maxim for it until 'after' he had the pittance I offered him for it. ;-) Hey, it's a gun show. All's fair!
Sirhr
Actually, the Browning M2 is capable of semi-automatic fire
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