One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

S

scotharr

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 8, 2005
1,774
28
Scottsdale, AZ
#1
Defiance Machine is the latest incarnation of Glen Harrison: the founder and brains behind Nesika Bay. He currently manufactures private-label actions with one-piece bolts for GA Precision(Templar), Louisiana Precision, Jense Precision, and others. Nesika Bay really got the custom action market rolling a couple decades ago and Glen is the one who did that. Glen is known for impeccable manufacturing and extremely high quality control standards.

Additionally, he allows you to TRULY customize your action order. One-piece bolt? Of course. Want an M16, Sako, or Remington extractor? Done. Want a 20MOA, 30MOA, or 0MOA integral rail? Done. Want to change the firing pin hole diameter? No problem. Want to change the ejection port dimensions? No problem. Need slightly different trigger pin hanger setup for a certain trigger? Done. No other custom action maker does this. http://www.defiancemachine.com/

SO, I have been urging Glen to make a one-piece action with integral rail and recoil lug. I believe his high manufacturing standards and his uber-smooth-cycling one-piece bolt would be a fantastic addition to the market. Glen is not sure there is a large enough market for this type of action to make it worth the design work he'd have to put in. Please help me by providing your opinion.

NOTE: Glen did not ask me to do this. I am doing it to try to show him there is a market for this.

Regards,
Scott
 
#4
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

He already makes a one-piece bolt that is extremely smooth and has what he calls "advanced primary extraction." So, YES it would absolutely have a one-piece bolt.
 
#6
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if he could do it with a AW mag opening and a 60 degree bolt throw he could have his own corner on the market. </div></div>

This is exactly the kind of feedback we can provide for him...and he is "Mr. Custom."
 
#7
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

I asked him to make a small sheep rifle type action and he was good with it until I told him I wanted it smaller in diameter than the Remington. NULA, Kimber, and several others do it but he was not willing to even discuss it. Defiance is like most gunsmiths, you can have it your way as long as they have done the same thing a 100 times before.
 
#9
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if he could do it with a AW mag opening and a 60 degree bolt throw he could have his own corner on the market. </div></div>

+5000
 
#11
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

I own two of his Phoenix RR actions (before he changed his name to defiance, would love to see the options listed above as another option. Love the receivers he built for me, given the money I would own another. Hope he adds the above.

Stephen
 
#12
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

I will let you all in on a few things. Alot of people worry about the name change. He bought out his partners and now owns sole ownership of HIS company. The other partners wouldnt let him use the name so he had to form another company by name. He is around for the long haul. He is one of the nicest and most tallented machinist you could find. It is hard to find someone with his abillity that doesnt have a head the size of Texas. We were joking about the reason they put big rollup doors in machine shops. It is not because moving machinery in and out. It is so at shift change one machinist can go in and one can go out without hitting their heads together. I can say this because I am a machinist and have worked with some of the best in the industry for years. As far as action specs.... He will do anything that is safe. Weather it is his idea or yours. As far as the AW feeding...... I will have the first prototype in hand on monday. I have been working for a while on it and this will be the first to feed double stack and single stack AI mags without altering mag release. You will be able to go back and forth. At least that is the idea. LOL! As far as integral lugs and rails. It might be in the works allready? Who knows. He is a burried man right now. The machine he has is capable of things that nearly no machine shops are capable of doing. Much less program and design for while keeping parts running. There are some very big things on the horizon. Things the industry will benefit from. This all takes time. Be patient he works more than anyone I know. Plus I might now someone that is headed up there to help him out?

Jason
 
#13
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

Most of the mentioned , are good options , I would like to see his website , cleaned Up , its a bit confusing , photos donot have indiviual labels , saying what options you are actually looking at .

The AW mag feed is what I would want the most , than followed by integral lug , then integral mount ( 20moa), and a longer tunion option ( for those who will mount heavy barrels ) .

The AW feed & 60 degree , donot need , as Badger make that as well as Roedale .

The other actions I would really to be made are ones that are NOT available at present .

1 ) A AW type action , with instead of the breach ring insert , a barrel extension ( ala M16 ) for the bolt to lock into , and a collar like the Savage or Windrunner to lock it into the action body , this would make a AW type action with in the field quick change abililty , ie the perfect switch barrel rifle

2 ) A almost exact copy of the Parker Hale reinforced Mauser M85 action .

3 ) A take down version of the Parker Hale M85 , with the Dakota type takedown , ie barrel extension .


Later Chris
 
#14
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

SP-Are you talking about a one piece action/recoil lug like Bat Machine makes but with loose tolerences for field work? barry
 
#15
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?


A pic of the Parker Hale M85 action , uses M14 type magazines ,
here's some pics of the M85 , I would make a few slight changes if possible to the design ,

I would see if a one piece bottom metal would work , with 3 bolts , and make a flat top , Pitcanny rail version as will as the original for those who want IT .

Also is a pic of the 2 stage trigger that came out on the M85 , this is a action that would sell .

DSC04860.jpg
DSC03235.jpg
DSC03237.jpg
DSC03233.jpg
DSC00658.jpg
DSC00559.jpg
 
#17
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?


One option that would be easy to make & quite GOOD , would be when machining the action leave a little bit of metal in , on top of the bolt way as a guide rib , like PGW Timberwolf & VR-1 , makes for a very smooth 2 lug bolt operation .

Later Chris
 
#18
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

I called and asked about the same thing jsut before the SHOT Show. The nice lady on the phone implied that Glen had a personal issue with making this action. I would be in line for at least one with the 1 pc bolt, integral recoil lug, integral 20MOA rail, and the ability to run the AI and AW mags!

She did mention he was going to judge the demand during the show and then make a decision. Well I hope you can share this thread with him and get him going!

Maybe this action on a Manners with the Mini Chassis could be the 2010 Hide Build?!?!?!?

GM
 
#19
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if he could do it with a AW mag opening and a 60 degree bolt throw he could have his own corner on the market. </div></div>

Or at least the AW mag option!!! If he came in at a good bit less $ than Surgeon,he'd really have a winner!

Steve
 
#20
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strictlyRUM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will let you all in on a few things. Alot of people worry about the name change. He bought out his partners and now owns sole ownership of HIS company. The other partners wouldnt let him use the name so he had to form another company by name. He is around for the long haul. He is one of the nicest and most tallented machinist you could find. It is hard to find someone with his abillity that doesnt have a head the size of Texas. We were joking about the reason they put big rollup doors in machine shops. It is not because moving machinery in and out. It is so at shift change one machinist can go in and one can go out without hitting their heads together. I can say this because I am a machinist and have worked with some of the best in the industry for years. As far as action specs.... He will do anything that is safe. Weather it is his idea or yours. As far as the AW feeding...... I will have the first prototype in hand on monday. I have been working for a while on it and this will be the first to feed double stack and single stack AI mags without altering mag release. You will be able to go back and forth. At least that is the idea. LOL! As far as integral lugs and rails. It might be in the works allready? Who knows. He is a burried man right now. The machine he has is capable of things that nearly no machine shops are capable of doing. Much less program and design for while keeping parts running. There are some very big things on the horizon. Things the industry will benefit from. This all takes time. Be patient he works more than anyone I know. Plus I might now someone that is headed up there to help him out?

Jason </div></div>

That's good to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Jason,

Steve
 
#21
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strictlyRUM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as the AW feeding...... I will have the first prototype in hand on monday. I have been working for a while on it and this will be the first to feed double stack and single stack AI mags without altering mag release. You will be able to go back and forth. At least that is the idea. LOL!
Jason </div></div>

Sorry to tell you dude you are not the first.

Remington actions have been modified for AW and AICS mags for some time that requires no alterations to the bottom metal or mag release. You might also want to look at my GUARDIAN action from Defiance machine, it specifically cut to use the AICS and AW mag with no alteration to the bottom metal.
 
#22
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think if he could do it with a AW mag opening and a 60 degree bolt throw he could have his own corner on the market. </div></div>

+1

Why others haven't done it yet?
 
#23
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

I would expect a bit more class outa someone as established as you. Oh wait, never mind I've read your rants and tantrums before. If I am misinformed I apologize. I am not claiming to have come up with altering an action to feed from these mags. I know its been done for some time to remmies. I may have even done one or two. Not anything I claim to have invented either. I said that this is the first action I have had them build for me or my company with double feed ramps to feed from double stack mags. I was aware he was working with some one else on a similar set up. The email I got friday said this is the first one out the door with your port. I am sorry for thinking I got the first one. I am sorry if my statement was threatening to your success or that you felt I stole a ray of your sunshine.

Jason
 
#24
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strictlyRUM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would expect a bit more class outa someone as established as you. Oh wait, never mind I've read your rants and tantrums before. If I am misinformed I apologize. I am not claiming to have come up with altering an action to feed from these mags. I know its been done for some time to remmies. I may have even done one or two. Not anything I claim to have invented either. I said that this is the first action I have had them build for me or my company with double feed ramps to feed from double stack mags. I was aware he was working with some one else on a similar set up. The email I got friday said this is the first one out the door with your port. I am sorry for thinking I got the first one. I am sorry if my statement was threatening to your success or that you felt I stole a ray of your sunshine.

Jason
</div></div>

I have no class, I have rants and tantrums??

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, I sure know you don't based on me pointing out your internet error in forum fun. Maybe you thought that post was a rant, or maybe you think this one is.

You said you were going to be the first with an action that would feed both AW and AI mags.

You would have the first prototype in your hand that would accomplish this. That you have been working on it for some time.

Do you not remember what you wrote, or did you forget? Then you get all hurt, and now defensive, when someone points it out to you in internet fun.
 
#27
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl Snafu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Randy wasn't going to chime in, I was. RUM, that is how your post came across. </div></div>

+1

I think Randy was just trying to educate you, no more and no less.

GM
 
#28
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

Hey Randy,

I would like to remove all my smartass from my appology. I am sorry. I am not hurt or defensive. Just a try at smartass. Which is what I thaught your first post was. I WAS unaware that you had yours in hand. In my defense I was not trying to say I invented the idea or even the first one to do it. What I was trying to say is that this will be my first prototype that is intended foe that. My saying that I have been working on it a long time may have been missleading. I have been altering remmies for a couple years now. I started playing with the badger actions and got the oh so obvious idea to see if Glen could offer it on his actions. When I went up to Montana in November I asked him if could do it he said he was allready working on it. My email on Friday said this was the first. Keep in mind I don't lay claim to it. It is an option that anyone can ask glen to do on theory own action. I was trying to get across the fact that its allready done. Glen is doing it. Not me. In fact I have my actions still bear the defiance name because I think it is gay to advertise someone else's work as my own. So think what you want, but I am sorry if I was unclear on the first post. But I do know what I wrote. That is why I left it up there without deleting or altering it. I think you read a little more into it than was there.

Jason
 
#29
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strictlyRUM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Randy,
In fact I have my actions still bear the defiance name because I think it is gay to advertise someone else's work as my own.
Jason </div></div>
Just in case that comment was directed at Randy you might want to start drafting another apology. He has been very upfront about who is doing the machine work, per his requested specs, for his Signature Guardian action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HateCA on 22 May 2009 in "New Test Rifle" Thread</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle was built using a Phoenix Machine RR action that had some changes done at my request. The main change was to cut the action to feed from the AW mag. The action will also feed from the AICS mag, so both can be used in the same rifle.

Future actions will be on the Phoenix Machine action with one piece bolt with the same changes that were done with the RR action.

As for the rifle in the pic, it utilizes the serial number one GUARDIAN action utilizing the changes I wanted.....

I want to thank Glen and Lisa at Phoenix Machine for all their help with getting this action done.</div></div>
Maybe its time for you gentlemen to take this to PM and get the thread back on track!

I think Jason and Randy are both walking the right direction down the same road. I would love to see Defiance go a little farther down that road with the integral rail and lug.

GM
 
#30
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

I could stand another 1pc bolt, integral railed, integral lug action as long as it was available in stainless. I hate building in a variable tolerance when coating a surgeon.
 
#31
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?


Just in case that comment was directed at Randy you might want to start drafting another apology. He has been very upfront about who is doing the machine work, per his requested specs, for his Signature Guardian action.

I am done appologizing to people that want to read what they want into a thread. I am in no way aiming that coment at Randy. Just a poke to all the "signature actions". It is a excerpt from a conversation with Glen in November. He explained to me it is more expensive to have his name on them because he has to do all finish work and assembly. So I will probably end up with gay actions with my own model name on them. I just hate how it seems to be the "in" thing to do. Its still a defiance action. I like to give credit where credit is due. He is making actions for nearly half the gunsmiths out there now. Glen is the brain that can take someones ideas and take them to reality. I would have appreciated a PM in the begining and would have made myself clearer publicly without the public "call out". This was a thread to get glen to make actions that feed from AW mags. I was TRYING to say its in the works. Anyone can get this on their action soon. So yes lets get the tread back to what it was intended for. Future modifacations to a superior action setup.

I think Jason and Randy are both walking the right direction down the same road. I would love to see Defiance go a little farther down that road with the integral rail and lug.

Thank you. That is what I am trying to get at. These improvements are for the industry by an impartial person who works for our benefit and doesnt need any back pats to make his day. He is trying to make everyones dream actions a reality. As far as the integral rail? I myself will try and offer it without. It is a huge manufacturing cost jump because of it being such a pain in the but. It will push lead times out and it offers little if any benefit to the function of the action. I will be pushing for a integral lug that is cut somewhat like seekins recoil lug. With the sight rail engaging the lug for possitive lock. This way a guy can get a steel rail if he so chooses or a aluminum rail if he is trying to save weight. Or even a nightforce one piece base rings if he is so inclined. This will offer the most metalurgical benefit to the action. It will give a slightly longer thread tennon and one less joint between separate parts. I will however look to have a slight recess in the end so the threads dont go all the way to the end. This will allow CNC threading/chambering of the barrels which doesnt require a thread releif. This will add alot of rigidity to the barrel/action joint. Dont know if this will become a reality but its next on my list to get the go ahead. He is constantly improving and adding new options. As fast as he can. All we can tell him is what we would like to see. Which is what this thread is supposed to be fore.

Back to the plan!

Jason
 
#33
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone might already be inquiring and designing such a critter to be made my Glen...maybe for another Glen
laugh.gif
</div></div>

YEEHAW! If you make it a reality I am going to be sending you some money.

GM
 
#35
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

Good to see your alive Glen. Haven't seen you post too much lately. You must be busy. You gonna have your own action too! His sleeves are pretty full aren't they. Can't wait to see it. Here I go hijacking again but are you putting any shoots on this year?.

Jason
 
#36
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

Gentlemen, Thank you for the kind words.
Many months ago Randy called and asked if I would work with him to develop a magazine well that would work with several different boxes. It sounded like a good, safe plan so I agreed. After several attempts and scrapping a few receivers it would seem we’ve done it. Randy invested his time and dollars to this project. I did offer him an exclusive, but he refused stating he wanted it available to everyone. What Randy did agree to is a new model designation, the Guardian.
Jason, your action is the first Defiance “Guardian” action to be made, but not the first with that magazine well. It is the first with the “Guardian” engraving that we have made- after receiving Randy’s approval of the graphics. Hopefully this clears up any confusion.
I have several development projects that I’m currently working on. As they get into production I’m sure you will hear about them.

Glen Harrison
Defiance Machine, Inc.
 
#37
Re: One-PIece Action from Defiance Machine?

Awwwwww Crap! Now I did it. Sorry to pull you away from work Glen. Now I owe Randy a thank you for letting us use this. That in no way is meant sarcastically. Offering this to all of us benefits the industry. It looks like my action will be giving credit where credit is due. Wearing the guardian badge. Sorry for my misinformation.

Jason
 
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