• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

One powder for 6 & 6.5 CM +260

Old Corps 8541

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 6, 2022
271
87
Milton FL
With the ever rising cost of powders I'm looking to use my tax refund to buy a large amount of one powder to serve both CM's and possibility a 260,{Long story} and quit looking for that "golden BB ". From all that I've read here H 4350 seams to be a favorite in both CM's as well as the 22 BR.
6 CM , 105 th 115, 6.5 CM , 123 & 140 and 22 BR , 80 th 88
 
I’ve used H4350 with great success in 6.5 and 260. Never tried in the 6CM
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash
I am not sure what a golden BB is. If it's the perfect powder for all three of those cases. Than h4350 is probably it. It's kind of the varget of the medium burn rate powders. Those three cases mostly use the same powders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash
N160 with 140 grain bullets in an 8 twist 260 has worked great for me since 2003. I don’t have any of the other cartridges mentioned.
 
Rl16 would be my universal powder. I used to be a h4350 guy till i got some rl16. It has worked better in my 6x47 lapua and my 22br. It gives me tighter groups at higher velocity in the same pressure range as H4350.

David
 
H4350 is the best all around powder IMO. I run it from 6GT to 6.5cm, 6.5prc and 300wsm.

Very temp stable and low lot to lot variation.

Go price RL16 and H4350. I can find H4350 for 310-350 per jug. RL16 is like 420-480 per jug.
 
6.5 CM : With BETTER SD as well as accuracy !.
N560 Max. book charge 47.2 gr. ft/s 2874
N555 44.1 ft/s 2851 all with 130 gr. bullets
N550 40.6 ft/s 2808

H 4350 130 gr. bullet Max Book load
Grs.
39.2
Vel. (ft/s)
2,687
Pressure60,400
 
He is probably laughing about you saying to stay away from H powders for accuracy. What do they do to VV powders that makes them provide better SD?
 
  • Like
Reactions: lash
He is probably laughing about you saying to stay away from H powders for accuracy. What do they do to VV powders that makes them provide better SD?
More refined quality control ,Finns are Known for their particular expertise and precision .

IF a particular power is working for You DON'T change it . However limiting to a single powder , I'd demand the BEST and Testing is the ONLY way one will be able to determine that .

Remember the Frogs now own ADI Australia aka Thales .

I ONLY know what works in MY weapons and I've pretty well switched most powders ,regarding accuracy but do retain a couple of IMR favored in a few calibers as they WORK . Found this interesting as I'm sure the Desert shooter did as well .

 
More refined quality control ,Finns are Known for their particular expertise and precision .

IF a particular power is working for You DON'T change it . However limiting to a single powder , I'd demand the BEST and Testing is the ONLY way one will be able to determine that .

Remember the Frogs now own ADI Australia aka Thales .

I ONLY know what works in MY weapons and I've pretty well switched most powders ,regarding accuracy but do retain a couple of IMR favored in a few calibers as they WORK . Found this interesting as I'm sure the Desert shooter did as well .


And how does this refined QC as you call it effect SDs. I am still not following.

And Now you seem to have two posts in the same thread condricting each other. Which adds further confusion.

And you should probably keep your racial slurs to yourself. This is not the bear pit. This is a technical section.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris W.
If I could go back in time and find the num-nuts that cancelled 4451 I would at least insure that didn't have anymore children to pass that stupid gene along.
I just traded for 1#'s of VVN 550 & 555. So as weather allows , I'll test them as well
Thank most of you'll, I'll exclude the post whore /class clown
 
And how does this refined QC as you call it effect SDs. I am still not following.

And Now you seem to have two posts in the same thread condricting each other. Which adds further confusion.

And you should probably keep your racial slurs to yourself. This is not the bear pit. This is a technical section.
QC ; Powder manufacturing is not unlike precision reloading ; Holding powder formulation to a tighter tolerance , using different flash inhibitor or shape makes a difference . Extruded powder in Rifles is generally Better than Ball type powders . Ball cost less is safer to manufacture but not as energetic as extruded or as accurate in detonation producing desirable pressure . What really propels or moves the earth is :

Leverage and Pressure . ;)


https://www.vihtavuori.com/tech-blog-powder-grain-shapes/
Web thickness in gunpowder terminology means the minimum distance that the combustion zones can travel within the powder grain without encountering each other. In spherical powders, this distance is the diameter of the “ball”; in flake powder it is the thickness of the flake; and in multi-perforated extruded powders it is the minimum distance (i.e. wall thickness) between the perforations.

The burning rate of powder composed of grains without any perforations or surface treatment is related to the surface area of the grain available for burning at any given pressure level. The change in the surface area that is burning during combustion is described by a so-called form function. If the surface area increases, the form function does likewise and its behavior is termed progressive. If the form function decreases, its behavior is said to be degressive. If the flame area remains constant throughout the combustion process, we describe it as “neutral” behavior.


The cylindrical, perforated powders are progressive; the burning rate increases as the surface area increases, and the pressure builds up slower, increasing until it reaches its peak and then collapses. Flake and ball grains are degressive; the total powder surface area and pressure are at their peak at ignition, decreasing as the combustion progresses.


So how does the shape affect pressure and muzzle velocity? In general, it can be said that powder that burns progressively achieves a desired muzzle velocity at lower maximum pressure than a powder that burns neutrally, not to mention a degressive powder. As grain size increases, the maximum pressure moves towards the muzzle, also increasing muzzle blast. Muzzle velocity and pressure can be adjusted by means of the amount of powder or loading density, i.e. the relationship between the powder mass and the volume available to it. As the loading density increases, maximum pressure grows.
 
QC ; Powder manufacturing is not unlike precision reloading ; Holding powder formulation to a tighter tolerance , using different flash inhibitor or shape makes a difference . Extruded powder in Rifles is generally Better than Ball type powders . Ball cost less is safer to manufacture but not as energetic as extruded or as accurate in detonation producing desirable pressure . What really propels or moves the earth is :

Leverage and Pressure . ;)


https://www.vihtavuori.com/tech-blog-powder-grain-shapes/
Web thickness in gunpowder terminology means the minimum distance that the combustion zones can travel within the powder grain without encountering each other. In spherical powders, this distance is the diameter of the “ball”; in flake powder it is the thickness of the flake; and in multi-perforated extruded powders it is the minimum distance (i.e. wall thickness) between the perforations.

The burning rate of powder composed of grains without any perforations or surface treatment is related to the surface area of the grain available for burning at any given pressure level. The change in the surface area that is burning during combustion is described by a so-called form function. If the surface area increases, the form function does likewise and its behavior is termed progressive. If the form function decreases, its behavior is said to be degressive. If the flame area remains constant throughout the combustion process, we describe it as “neutral” behavior.


The cylindrical, perforated powders are progressive; the burning rate increases as the surface area increases, and the pressure builds up slower, increasing until it reaches its peak and then collapses. Flake and ball grains are degressive; the total powder surface area and pressure are at their peak at ignition, decreasing as the combustion progresses.


So how does the shape affect pressure and muzzle velocity? In general, it can be said that powder that burns progressively achieves a desired muzzle velocity at lower maximum pressure than a powder that burns neutrally, not to mention a degressive powder. As grain size increases, the maximum pressure moves towards the muzzle, also increasing muzzle blast. Muzzle velocity and pressure can be adjusted by means of the amount of powder or loading density, i.e. the relationship between the powder mass and the volume available to it. As the loading density increases, maximum pressure grows.
Ah, yes, yes that "QC." Thanks for VV advertisment. 🤡🤣🤣

On a completely unrelated subject. I wish BARF would quit banning people. 🤐🤪😳
 
Not very precise , but it gave me some data to consider when I start my reloading tests. What I like to start at is the gas ring ie; the base of bullet at or above the neck /shoulder junction and the boat tail of the bullet touching the powder. Last night I took a new Peterson 6 CM case and ran a little test to see what powder had the highest loading density. I took the data from the Lyman LR Precision Reloading Handbook. Only tested 4 powders , as they were on my bench ; 40.0 Gn of 4451 , 39.5 Gn. of H 4350 , 40.0 of RL 16 and 41.4 Gn. of V 555 , just making a SWAG , the H 4350 and the 555 were about 85 to 90 % of case full, the I 4451 was about about 90 to 95 % , and the RL 16 was 100+%.
All of this comes under the header " it looks good , BUT how does it group ".
 
Generally speaking doesn't most LR shooters strive for velocity coupled with accuracy ? The latter being paramount ,however all the accuracy in the world won't cut it ,IF the bullet fails to engage the target . One needs to push the pill as near top speed as possible with consistency ,while reaching out . So makes sense to choose powders accordingly Higher velocity at Lower pressures = accuracy :) So use what works in Your weapon .
 
Back to the OP' question, wouldn't 6.5 StaBALL be a contender? I love it in my 6.5C and I presume .260 would do well with it. Never messed with 6mm anything but does 6C usually use the same/similar powders as 6.5C?
 
Back to the OP' question, wouldn't 6.5 StaBALL be a contender? I love it in my 6.5C and I presume .260 would do well with it. Never messed with 6mm anything but does 6C usually use the same/similar powders as 6.5C?

I have it have Not used it for evaluation at this point . So I'll refrain from comment as to what it can or can't do .

I did run across Gavin at UR had done a limited evaluation of VV 555 ,take it for what it is . I receive ZIP Zero of any type of endorsement .

 
  • Like
Reactions: John Glidewell
Back to the OP' question, wouldn't 6.5 StaBALL be a contender? I love it in my 6.5C and I presume .260 would do well with it. Never messed with 6mm anything but does 6C usually use the same/similar powders as 6.5C?
Yes, definitely a contender. I couldn't get my SD low enough with it for 6.5cm but for 6cm it's right there with h4350 for me. It wasn't bad in 6.5cm but since I don't have to limit myself to a single powder, I don't. That said I could use 6.5staball and do just fine with it for both.
 
I have/had all three cartridges. I have used H4350 in all of them.

If I had to use something else, probably Reloader 16...but since it is apparently made out of gold that isn't going to happen anytime soon.
 
With the ever rising cost of powders I'm looking to use my tax refund to buy a large amount of one powder to serve both CM's and possibility a 260,{Long story} and quit looking for that "golden BB ". From all that I've read here H 4350 seams to be a favorite in both CM's as well as the 22 BR.
6 CM , 105 th 115, 6.5 CM , 123 & 140 and 22 BR , 80 th 88
Varget, CFE223, LeverEvolution, StaBall Match, & StaBall 6.5 will all be good in anything short-action.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ex E6