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Minuteman
  • Apr 12, 2001
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    Base of the Rockies
    www.snipershide.com
    Today I was looking over a new International Series that wants to open the door to any one in terms participating in National, Regional and International Precision Rifle competition

    And the tag lines there about "Bringing the Precision Rifle Nations together" is our goal ...

    Here is my questions for the week, my charge for you to answer...

    Why can't all the Matches here be "Open" and the MD just simply email over the scores to each series. Or if that too much work, have it so they can filter each shooter by Series and then just send over the relevant shooters to their particular series. Excel can do it.

    This takes nothing away, this increases the pool of competition, this true markets at work vs forcing people to attend matches they might not otherwise attend.

    I can see having dedicated qualifiers that only put Series People against series people, which would work more so towards an actual goal.

    You shoot a series of Open matches in your area, the scores are feed to your chosen Series. Then the Series can have regional or National qualifiers for each others moving towards their Final.

    Then using International Model, you can have the next level of competition. You are the Series Champ now go compete against the other series to see how you fare.

    There needs to be a top level realignment of all this, the rules can be standardized or at least complimentary of each other, the participates can be helped by competing against those they might not ordinarily shoot against.

    At some point, those hosting matches need to realize they are cutting off their noses because of the bullshit, if you play with me, you won't play with thee model we currently have. It's stupid, it's limiting, its one of the reasons we have drama and it's not good for the sport moving forward. Is this about the sport or about lining your own pockets, answer that too.

    There is a lot of people that want to work together but the current series models limit that ability. Use your voice ask for change, open up the matches to you can gain valuable experience without the drama.
     
    I like the idea that match points could go to no one, or both or any if you are enrolled.

    A match at the end of a season between any series would be interest just to see who picks which side.

    A true finale for the discipline not just a series would be awesome.
     
    It's going to take the PRS and NRL to make nice with each other before it'll happen. I don't see any reason why all of the matches can't be co-sanctioned and have the top x number of shooters from both at a finale.
     
    I always thought combining the NRL and PRS with some National level matches would be a killer idea. I don't watch football but doesn't the NFL have NFC and AFC divisions? Seems like you could treat PRS as East Coast division and NRL as West Coast. I feel the NRL would be more open to it than the PRS.
     
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    This is what we are about to roll out on the Vudoo Rimfire side.

    We couldn’t care less if you report your match to PRS Rimfire, NRL22X, or 100 other leagues.

    Our success isn’t contingent on securing big name sponsors, so we don’t need to play the “it’s either us or them” game.
     
    It's going to take the PRS and NRL to make nice with each other before it'll happen. I don't see any reason why all of the matches can't be co-sanctioned and have the top x number of shooters from both at a finale.

    Because their success has nothing to do with shooters. It’s all about sponsorships.
     
    Frank,

    I could not agree more, listened to you and Scott chewing the fat re. competitions and where they have arrived currently ('descended to' :rolleyes: 😁). The BS of 'my ball you cannot play' is retarding the sport.

    Having this IPRF World comp is a great opportunity for different folks to compete against each other and to hopefully to remove the 'barricade benchrest' - bring the comps back to the pre PRL/NRL ethos of the early SH Cup and Bash i.e. you learn what you cannot do and try to improve - not just how to engineer out the difficulties by adding crap to your 25 pound rifle.

    In the UK we have a lack of available ranges to put on these comps and currently no cohesive organisation. If each existing group could just shoot and submit then things will work.

    NB the adoption of burdensome IPSC type rules and match regulations is a killer, 2 day comps for qualifiers, must have approved match directors (and personally the shiny shirt/sponsorship is anathema to progress.)

    Folks will hopefully listen to the likes of you, Scott, Mr Cross etc, with luck something truly different will emerge?

    'follow the money' - indeed :(
     
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    I read about some of the drama overseas and it appears to me, to be a Turf War Lite

    I see Tiff formalized his part of the equation and I am all for that, I said as people have asked me to comment on the UK situation, someone either has to own it outright or everyone has to agree to share.

    In a way, I think the competing "series" model is actually better. Make every series Local and then have all the locals feed an Umbrella series

    The
     
    Honestly I just wish NRL and PRS would stop pretending like they're different from one another and just work together. So many people say they prefer one or the other, but realistically they're both the same thing. They have the same kind of stages, they have incredibly similar rules, and they both have the same overall purpose. The primary difference (and what makes the matches different as a natural consequence) is where most of them are located. Neither of them is large enough to truly get nationwide reach, the NRL has nothing out East and the PRS offerings in the mid-west and west of the Rockies are greatly limited to boot.

    Honestly they'd get more interest and participation if they quit dividing up their target market and turned it into an "AFC vs NFC" type organization. NRL handles matches and logistics for the Western half of the country, PRS handles it for the Eastern half, and then they both send their top competitors to a finale/championship match either in the middle of the country or alternating the hosting between Eastern and Western venues.

    It would feed off the already prevalent argument of "Western shooters are better because they deal with the wind" vs "Eastern shooters are better because we have smaller targets", it would stop both series from trying to over-extend themselves, and having some kind of rivalry never hurts participation. It's a better proposition for sponsors as well since it's expands their reach to sponsor an overarching organization rather than individual series with more limited geographic representation. They already divide things up into regions for both PRS and NRL, so it's not like this kind of thing is unprecedented.

    This kind of merger would be good for the sport and all of the shooters that participate. The only question is whether the heads of each company are willing to compromise to make it happen and more easily grow the sport, or if they'd rather continue to split up the shooting community and try to fight for lone dominance in the relatively limited market. It's the same deal with a unified ELR ruleset. It's a great benefit to shooters if all ELR events have one set of rules and you don't need to worry about if your gun from one match is legal in another. It's also the same in that each MD (or series owner) believes that their rules set (or series) is better than all the rest so why should they change instead of everybody just using their rules (or their series).

    What's best for the sport as a whole may be at odds with what's best for individual companies, at least in the short term. Long-term fighting tooth and nail over territory and shooters is still going to be worse for the companies as well, compared to allowing as much access as possible.
     
    NRL is disgruntled PRS People that ship has sailed

    This was all one series prior and this is not the first failed series over the years in the Precision Rifle Space

    What happened is, the PRS was busy picking winners and favorites among an equal list of people. Those left out in the cold, even after paying as requested, got mad and left

    Pandora opened the box, you cannot close it, you can only manage the fallout
     
    Frank, make your own series. Solve all the problems by creating a league and bringing everyone under it. Ideas are easy, execution is everything. Do you want to be the guy that talks about it, or does something about it. This site has been complaining for years. Take the helm and lead it. If not, just let organizations run themselves. Who cares. If your not willing to do it, why complain constantly. Why let them live in your head like that?
     
    But if you give up the points and scores to another organization, even just to use on an international scale, how do you charge Braun $50,000 to be the official manscaping trimmer of the PRS?

    Any word on whether Daniel Defense got taken for another ride this year?
     
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    Back into competitive shooting after a 15 year break, (daughter played soccer K-through 12)
    Having a big time shooting precision rimfire. Our local match director runs NRL22, NRL22X and MARS.
    Also locally a very well known national level shooter ran PRS rimfire, NRL22X and MARS.matches. Reputation is these are the "best and toughest matches around. First match of 2022 is this weekend and it was to be a PRS rimfire & MARS. He got an email saying he cannot run a match that awards points to two different organizations.....ah hell! Looks like this weekend is MARS:) I also had joined MARS $30, and PRS rimfire $30 but NRL22 season and membership run May to May for $85 so I'll wait until May and decide.
    Right now we have three organizations, one that will not play with the others, not sure there is an answer.

    Friday Morning, 2/4/2022: Breaking News: PRS rimfire is now allowing the club to award points to different series.
     
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    But if you give up the points and scores to another organization, even just to use on an international scale, how do you charge Braun $50,000 to be the official manscaping trimmer of the PRS?

    Any word on whether Daniel Defense got taken for another ride this year?
    I have wondered what it’s costing these companies to be ”official”?
     
    Put it this way, Shannon is making a killing on “ official sponsorships“. Most of the stuff I wouldn’t want to bu.

    You know what PRS is being paid? Or assuming?

    I’ve seen some of the Rimfire side. It’s not very large amounts.
     
    Friday Morning, 2/4/2022: Breaking News: PRS rimfire is now allowing the club to award points to different series.

    You sure? Forever or just until the hub bub dies down and can try to squeeze MARS out? MARS is good as they don't charge the MD anything to report scores so no reason to not report them for MARS members.
     
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    You sure? Forever or just until the hub bub dies down and can try to squeeze MARS out? MARS is good as they don't charge the MD anything to report scores so no reason to not report them for MARS members.
    Not sure.
    It was a PRS rimfire and MARS match. MD got an email saying he could not run a match awarding points to two different series. Apparently it was discussed and allowed in the end. MD is running a PRS rimfire/MARS, one month NRL22X/MARS the next. Just have to see how it falls out.
     
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    Yeah heard some major backlash to the ruling that came down so will be interesting to see what happens.
     
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    That's why we just did our own series and didn't worry about affiliating with anybody. We're more worried about having a good match with a fun atmosphere that Shooters enjoy, rather than worrying about if they're getting enough points to qualify for regional or nationals, etc...

    Side note...we run prize tables for one day matches. I had a sponsor tell me this was basically unheard of. Our prize table may not be the biggest, but why not put some stuff out there for Shooters to take home? It isn't a cash grab for us, none of our sponsors paid us in cash, and anything that doesn't get picked rolls over to the next table.

    I guess we're just coming at it differently because we're Shooters, too. Lol