Rifle Scopes  Opinions: Vortex Razor HD Gen II 3-18x50 (vs.) Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21x50

LongRangeJunky

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Need some help deciding on one of these two optics for my new Desert Tech SRS A1 with 6.5CM conversion (more to come!)
I have been looking for a more compact option as I will hunt with this very often. Primary use is hunting with some PRS style shooting and informal long range shooting with friends. I love the Razor because.. well its the Razor!
But the Bushnell DMR II snuck up on me this week because it is about 1 inch shorter, almost a pound lighter, and about $500+ cheaper than the Razor. I am very aware of the technical differences between the two as I have watched every video known to man on either one. I like the reticle in both as well.

Basically my question is this... Will I be lacking with the Bushnell DMR 2 in such a way that will make me wish I had the Razor? I 'hear' glass is just as good on both, but then I also have read about CA/fuzziness etc. on the upper magnification level of the DMR 2 which supposedly does not happen with the Razor? I would really like to save the weight, bulk and cash and get the DMR 2 but I have no problem spending more to get a better optic. My biggest drawback to the Razor is the weight (and ugly color!), but other than that I think it is damn ear as perfect as it gets.

The re-zero feature on the Bushnell 'looks' cheap, though it actually looks easier to do with a simple nickel/piece of brass which would actually make it more convenient for a switch cal. rifle... Lots to consider. Want to get it right the first time!

I was also considering the NF ATACR 4-16x42 F1 Mil-R but ended up scrapping it because I do not like the reticle at all. I would love for any and everyone to chime in. I would like to make my decision ASAP. Greg at Primal Rights strongly encouraged me to get a Tangent Theta but I just don't want to drop that much cash on an optic right now. $2,000-2,500 out the door is the MAX I would like to be at.

 

SRPowah

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You state A1, but I want to confirm you don't have a Covert. If you have the full size rail, I also recommend the AMG. Weight is where its at. After switching to a S&B US, I love the compact optics, and even looked into getting a DMR2 for my Remington. But my step dad's long hunting rifle feels really handy even with a full sized optic on top and that is simply due to how light weight the basic ol' hunting scope is.

Or within your budget, you can't go wrong getting a Razor 4.5-27 here in the PX. Same size, barely heavier than the 3-18, lose 1.5x on the bottom end but gain 9x on the top end.. That is if you decide weight is more important than size. lol
 
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KimberGuy

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I just sold my 3-18 Gen II and will be replacing it with another DMR II w/ H59. The weight savings is a huge selling point, and I can't tell a difference in the glass when I'm using it on steel or in a match.
 

LongRangeJunky

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I just sold my 3-18 Gen II and will be replacing it with another DMR II w/ H59. The weight savings is a huge selling point, and I can't tell a difference in the glass when I'm using it on steel or in a match.
That is great to hear! Is weight the only reason you are switching?

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LongRangeJunky

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You state A1, but I want to confirm you don't have a Covert. If you have the full size rail, I also recommend the AMG. Weight is where its at. After switching to a S&B US, I love the compact optics, and even looked into getting a DMR2 for my Remington. But my step dad's long hunting rifle feels really handy even with a full sized optic on top and that is simply due to how light weight the basic ol' hunting scope is.

Or within your budget, you can't go wrong getting a Razor 4.5-27 here in the PX. Same size, barely heavier than the 3-18, lose 1.5x on the bottom end but gain 9x on the top end.. That is if you decide weight is more important than size. lol
Yes full length A1, though I may get a Covert Handguard in the future so that is an option. My only concern on the AMG is how new it is. I just can't find any real reviews yet, nor have I seen it in stock when I looked last week. I will look again today!

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Glassaholic

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    There's been quite a few reviews on the AMG so far, I put up one last year - https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...light-tactical-scope-evaluation-part-ii/page2

    Frank also had a review of the AMG on the old site, he ran this scope hard for many months (and may still be running it for all I know) and had nothing but absolutely positive things to say about the AMG.

    Also, for what you're asking, if you really want to save some weight but still want 16x+ magnification then I'd highly recommend the Bushnell LRTSi 4.5-18x44. The LRTS has "better" glass in regard to overall IQ than the DMR II but the DMR II is no slouch either. I'd say my LRTS is close to my AMG in resolution; however, AMG trounces the LRTS in CA control and other features like locking turrets. For $1000 more the AMG gives you 24x, 50mm, locking turrets and a bit better glass over the LRTS while only being an ounce heavier. I will say I prefer the LRTS zero stop better than the AMG, why Vortex had to make setting zero such a pain is beyond me, but we usually set these once so not a huge deal. If you don't mind 15x then I'd say there is no better scope than the Tangent Theta TT315M which is also about the same weight as the other scopes but has the best glass money can buy right now (this based off my experience with Premier/Optronika glass and other reviewers of TT), the only issue with TT is their limited reticle choices.
     

    Rob01

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    There's been quite a few reviews on the AMG so far, I put up one last year - https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...light-tactical-scope-evaluation-part-ii/page2

    Frank also had a review of the AMG on the old site, he ran this scope hard for many months (and may still be running it for all I know) and had nothing but absolutely positive things to say about the AMG.

    Also, for what you're asking, if you really want to save some weight but still want 16x+ magnification then I'd highly recommend the Bushnell LRTSi 4.5-18x44. The LRTS has "better" glass in regard to overall IQ than the DMR II but the DMR II is no slouch either. I'd say my LRTS is close to my AMG in resolution; however, AMG trounces the LRTS in CA control and other features like locking turrets. For $1000 more the AMG gives you 24x, 50mm, locking turrets and a bit better glass over the LRTS while only being an ounce heavier. I will say I prefer the LRTS zero stop better than the AMG, why Vortex had to make setting zero such a pain is beyond me, but we usually set these once so not a huge deal. If you don't mind 15x then I'd say there is no better scope than the Tangent Theta TT315M which is also about the same weight as the other scopes but has the best glass money can buy right now (this based off my experience with Premier/Optronika glass and other reviewers of TT), the only issue with TT is their limited reticle choices.


    The AMG zero stop is already set at factory. You don't adjust the zero stop. Setting the scope zero is done that way so you can get a perfect zero with the clickless zeroing so you aren't a little high or low or left or right. It's different than others but after doing it a couple times it's not hard and the perfect zero pro out weighs any cons.
     

    NateVA

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    The AMG zero stop is already set at factory. You don't adjust the zero stop. Setting the scope zero is done that way so you can get a perfect zero with the clickless zeroing so you aren't a little high or low or left or right. It's different than others but after doing it a couple times it's not hard and the perfect zero pro out weighs any cons.

    I currently have a Razor HD 5-20 and will be upgrading in the next couple of months. My only complaint has been that the eyebox is quite tight at high powers. How does the AMG eyebox compare to the Razor HD 5-20 and also to the Razor HD Gen 2 4.5-27?
     

    LongRangeJunky

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    I was just about to pull the trigger on the DMR II-i when I realized that the elevation turret does not lock!! WTF IS THIS!? So I looked at the ERS which does lock both turrets, but the Zero Stop is not convenient for a Desert Tech shooter on the ERS due to the use of a little allen key. I liked the DMR 2 so much because of its simple Zero Stop mechanism. It was the perfect choice until I realized the elevation turret does not lock. I know it is not a total deal breaker, but it is disappointing. Maybe it will never be an issue? Idk. I know my Vortex PST elevation turret has moved on me in the past so it makes me nervous.
     

    Rob01

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    I currently have a Razor HD 5-20 and will be upgrading in the next couple of months. My only complaint has been that the eyebox is quite tight at high powers. How does the AMG eyebox compare to the Razor HD 5-20 and also to the Razor HD Gen 2 4.5-27?

    The AMG is better for eye box than the 5-20 Razor and almost as good as the Razor II, which is great. The AMG is pretty easy to get behind even at higher powers. You shouldn't have a problem with it.
     

    Glassaholic

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    The AMG zero stop is already set at factory. You don't adjust the zero stop. Setting the scope zero is done that way so you can get a perfect zero with the clickless zeroing so you aren't a little high or low or left or right. It's different than others but after doing it a couple times it's not hard and the perfect zero pro out weighs any cons.

    Thank you for the correction Rob, you are correct, the zero stop is set at the factory and what I was referring to was setting the scope zero; however, explain to me what you mean by "perfect zero pro" vs other designs? Are you saying the Vortex AMG zero is more accurate than setting other scope zeros? I'm not sure if I understand your statement and if I have something to learn here I'm all ears or in this case eyes :)
     

    NateVA

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    Thank you for the correction Rob, you are correct, the zero stop is set at the factory and what I was referring to was setting the scope zero; however, explain to me what you mean by "perfect zero pro" vs other designs? Are you saying the Vortex AMG zero is more accurate than setting other scope zeros? I'm not sure if I understand your statement and if I have something to learn here I'm all ears or in this case eyes :)

    I believe all he meant is that since the zero is clickless, you can get right on instead of being restricted by 0.1 MRAD increments. I could be wrong though, I am quite often.
     

    Rob01

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    I believe all he meant is that since the zero is clickless, you can get right on instead of being restricted by 0.1 MRAD increments. I could be wrong though, I am quite often.

    Yup that's exactly it. You don;t have to be a little right or left or high or low. I had dealt with that in the past as I am sure many others have but now with the clickless zero and being able to dial between clicks you can get a perfect zero and not have to be a little off.
     

    Captramrod01

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    Well I took a chance on the DMR ii and am regretting it so far. Reticle shifts an entire mil to the right when zooming in then almost re-centers at max power. Back she goes.
     

    SRPowah

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    That is the first time I have read of an issue with the DMR2. I admit I haven't really looked for issues... Let us know how it turns out
     

    LongRangeJunky

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    Well I took a chance on the DMR ii and am regretting it so far. Reticle shifts an entire mil to the right when zooming in then almost re-centers at max power. Back she goes.

    This is the first issue I have read regarding the DMR. Everyone produces lemons from time to time. I just order mine yesterday. Hopefully she works as intended! Good luck with yours!
     

    Captramrod01

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    I'm sure your guy's scopes will be fine. Bum scopes slip through with every manufacturer. I did however return it for refund and am thinking of rubbing some pennies together and getting something nicer.
     

    LongRangeJunky

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    I'm sure your guy's scopes will be fine. Bum scopes slip through with every manufacturer. I did however return it for refund and am thinking of rubbing some pennies together and getting something nicer.
    What else are you considering?

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    CBDR

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    I am not a subject matter expert. But have a question for you and I am not trying to stir the pot. I came so close to buying that rifle from PR. As you know it came with a hefty price tag and that is not what caused me to not execute the deal. It was a matter of me willingly trying to learn how to shoot something that short. Maybe I'm narrow minded, Have you considered the following option? Temporally run one of your other optics on it. Do not get in a hurry. If I were in this as deep as you are I would complete the project with the TT 3x15m. Do it.