Optics or training?

[cgriff]

I have been considering dropping the cash on a Nightforce to replace my wotac for a while now but today I started doing some thinking. It's easy to get caught up in buying all the nice gear out there but where would my money be better invested. The wotac seems to function well although I haven't been able to look at it the same after looking through a NF at the local shop recently.

For about the same amount of cash or a little more, I could attend a precision rifle course. I have no idea which one would be the right one so any opinions there would be helpful too.

Bottom line is, where is my money better spent?

1. NF 5.5-22
2. Precision rifle training course. If this is the way to go, any reccomendations for a course somewhat local to MS?

Griff

 

[Longshot38]

Re: Optics or training?

Take the training class. Gear is good. Training is priceless. I'd rather have to take on a poorly trained shooter with the best gear then a highly trained shooter with shitty gear.

Besides the WOTAC is a decent optic. My theory on gear is to buy the best you can afford and then don't worry about an upgrade until that gear becomes your limiting factor.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Optics or training?

I vote the nxs but i would opt for the 3.5x15x50, but both would be good options if you you are a relatively new shooter.

 

[trigger time]

Re: Optics or training?

If the class you are looking at will run about the same as a night force I would have to say go with the night force and look for a little more reasonably priced class. That better be one hell of a class for that amount, and it could be, who knows.

 

[Charliehorse794]

Re: Optics or training?

NF and find a more reasonable class.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Optics or training?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the class you are looking at will run about the same as a night force I would have to say go with the night force and look for a little more reasonably priced class......</div></div>

Easy to say until you factor in travel, lodging, food, ammo, etc.

I can easily drop $2K on a week long school.

My suggestion is that if the Wotac is working and you don't have any professional training to this point, take a class. If you have some professional training (Mil, LE, previous civvie courses) then go for the new scope.

Fancy gear doesn't make good shooters. Good shooting does. However crap gear will limit the ability of the shooter.

 

[Graham]

Re: Optics or training?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My suggestion is that if the Wotac is working and you don't have any professional training to this point, take a class. If you have some professional training (Mil, LE, previous civvie courses) then go for the new scope.</div></div>I agree. What is your current limitation: Is your scope holding you back, and/or will training get you to the next level?

 

[BigBrother]

Re: Optics or training?

Get the scope. It's a one time purchase you can check off your list and be confident with for time ever-after.

It's quite true that gear doesn't make a shooter, but confidence and enjoyment in one's equipment does. You can always supplement the training by reading on here, shooting a bunch, getting books, DVDs, etc.

The wonderful thing is you'll be doing all that practice with a set up you actually like/want!

Put another way, training is perishable, a Nightforce is forever

. Put yet another - you can always sell your Nightforce. You can't sell some good tips you picked up!

 

[Black Majik]

Re: Optics or training?

I would go for the NF, it's darn near bombproof.

It would be a shame to take the class only to have your scope go down.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Optics or training?

My $.02

Take the class, it will give you a much better idea of what optic is most appropriate for you.

Worst case scenario would be that you pick up your NF end up going to the class later and then while you are learing to use all of your new skills, you discover that something else might have been a better fit.

 

[cgriff]

Re: Optics or training?

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I have had some professional training but it was more carbine and pistol orientated. (JTM Las Vegas) That was several years ago when I was in the AF. Great class, learned a lot, but I think the biggest benifit was that we fired several thousand rounds that week and had someone watching every move, tweeking my technique. I came out of that class a much better shooter but digressed over time. I don't have the time or money to contiuously shoot thousands of rounds on a regular basis.

Right now I think my ability is the limiting factor. The wotac fuctions well and I believe is a good scope for its price range. I've had a couple of PMs offering some coaching from some guys that aren't too far away so I'll probably take them up on that when I get the chance.

So right now I'm thinking I'll just drop some cash on the SH online training. Try to get out to where some more experienced shooters can point out my weaknesses, then see about improving my optics.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: Optics or training?

I'd buy the NF and get together with experienced local shooters that will help you get on track with your training. Once you have the basic skills you only need to practice, practice, practice. No need for an expensive course.

 

[Amric]

Re: Optics or training?

I agree with the last two posts the most. There is nothing wrong with professional training if you can afford it, but those skills indeed perish if you do not also train very regularly.

A good amount of training ammo and time is always going to be required to maintain and improve upon what you learn either in a training class, or through other self study methods. I think where the real skill starts to show itself is when something you learned through one method or another goes from a conscious thought to a subconscious reflexive instinct. This is when the speed starts to really progress without loss of precision. It is hard for someone to teach reflexive instinct. The professional trainer will teach you the correct way to do things, but then without the time and ammo to turn that into reflexive instinct, your money will be wasted.

The scope will help make for a better rifle, but that is just one part of the package.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Re: Optics or training?

Second Dr. Phil. The training class and range time will help you refine your needs and work on your basics.

And by the time you take the class and work a bit more on your shooting... NF will have come out with something even better!

Also, at classes you get exposed to all kinds of different gear, shooters, techniques and.... optics! You will get a lot of opinions and can base your decision on the opinions of the guys putting holes in holes downrange...

Just my $0.02. Train, train, train!

Cheers, sirhr

 

[Graham]

Re: Optics or training?

On second thought, my advice has changed: pull out the credit card and do both - you only live once.

 

[cgriff]

Re: Optics or training?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On second thought, my advice has changed: pull out the credit card and do both - you only live once.

</div></div>

$8000 credit card limit + my wife is leaving for her annual tour for the guard in Hawaii soon = S&B 5-25 and anything open at Rifles Only June 16 - 23?

 

[TrooperBrian]

Re: Optics or training?

I say the Nightforce, the 5.5-22 is the perfect magnification, stick with it.

 

[ms6852]

Re: Optics or training?

I see new shooters young and old at the range with the best that money can buy. Sadly they do not know how to use their gear to the maximum potential, but they are content dropping names and saying I have this and that and this, but can't shoot worth a damn. Get the class and learn about shooting. Any experienced shooter can and will out shoot you with a Simmons or BSA scope if you do not have knowledge of ballistics, trajectory, moa,mils,windage, point of aim, sight picture, etc.

 

[cgriff]

Re: Optics or training?

For those of you recommending I take a course, any suggestions on where to go? I live in south MS and would prefer something fairly close.

 

[Juan Valdez]

Re: Optics or training?

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Depending on where in MS you are, Tiger is probably the closest to you that I know of. I've never attended one of his courses, but I've heard nothing but good things about him.

http://www.shootrite.org/</span>

I just read the description for the PR course. 100 yards only. See below.

After that, I'd say either Rifles Only or Tiger Valley.

BTW, for the comments regarding training being perishable, I strongly disagree. Once you know these things, you know them. Practice is a different subject, but the knowledge is gained permanently unless you are just a forgetful MF and didn't take notes.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Optics or training?

I would buy the NF, and sign up for the online training, later when you have the funds take some formal training, if you take that scope to Rifles Only it will break, you'll be pissed and Frank will make you go fetch him Red Bulls

 

[Beamer Girl]

Re: Optics or training?

Part of taking any class is finding out what is holding you back from becoming a great shooter. Some of that is the person, some will be equipment. Being part of Rifles Only, there have been countless times that scopes have failed. In fact we probably have a least one every class. However that will not stop your training! We have plenty of scopes on site to replace one if it goes down during the class.
No matter what you decide to do, there are key things to remember! You do not have to have access to thousands of rounds a week to keep your skills up. Once you have the fundamentals down....dry fire, dry fire, dry fire!!!! When you dry fire, it doesn't matter what scope you have

.
If we (Rifles Only) can help you in any way possible, let us know. If you want to stay close to home for the training....go see Tiger at Shootrite! You will not be disappointed at all even if you stay to 100 yards! Tiger is an awesome instructor and he is priceless!
If you want to start the online training, do that. It is a great start. Once you sign up now you automatically get ($120/a years worth of subscription) taken off the tuition at Rifles Only. That is provided you sign up in the forum and not the front page.
Whatever you decide to do it is not the wrong choice.