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Hunting & Fishing Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

Slapchop

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 1, 2009
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I know that a lot of people on here are very passionate about the whole wolf issue that is plaguing some of the western states. I ran across this article and figured some of ya'll might find it interesting.

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<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">Dead wolf photos stir tensions out West</span></span>

<span style="font-size: 8pt">Reuters By Laura Zuckerman | Reuters – 19 hrs ago</span>

SALMON, Idaho (Reuters) - Photos of dead and maimed wolves have pervaded the Internet in recent weeks, raising tensions in the Northern Rocky Mountains over renewed hunting and trapping of the once federally protected animals.

Escalating rancor between hunters and animal rights activists on social media and websites centers on pictures of wolves killed or about to be killed. Many have text celebrating the fact that Western states are allowing more killing of the predators.

Commenting on a Facebook-posted image of two wolves strangled to death by cable snares, an individual who identified himself as Shane Miller wrote last month, "Very nice!! Don't stop now, you're just getting started!"

A person going by the name Matthew Brown posted the message, "Nice, one down and a BUNCH to go!" in response to a Facebook image of a single wolf choked to death in a snare.

Such pictures and commentary have intensified online arguments over the ethics of hunting and trapping wolves. The debate took a threatening turn this week with an anonymous email warning that animal rights advocates will "be the target next."

In Idaho and Montana, hundreds of the animals have been killed -- mostly through hunting -- less than a year after being removed from the U.S. endangered species list.

Stripping the wolves of federal protection last spring opened the animals to state wildlife management, including newly licensed hunting and trapping designed to reduce their numbers from levels the states deemed too high.

Since the de-listing last May, Idaho has cut its wolf population by about 40 percent, from roughly 1,000 to about 600 or fewer. Some 260 wolves have been killed in Montana, more than a third of its population, leaving an estimated 650 remaining.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has also proposed lifting the protected status for another 350 wolves in Wyoming.

The threatening note received by an anti-trapping group based in Missoula, Montana, this week has drawn scrutiny from federal and local law enforcement.

The group says it was likely singled out because it had criticized and widely circulated a snapshot of a smiling trapper posed with a dying wolf whose leg was caught in the metal jaws of a foothold trap on a patch of blood-stained snow.

VILLAIN OR VICTIM?

Once common across most of North America, wolves were hunted, trapped and poisoned to near extinction in the lower 48 states by the 1940s under a government-sponsored program.

Decades later, biologists recognized that wolves had an essential role as a predator in mountain ecosystems, leading to protection of the animal under the Endangered Species Act.

Wolves were reintroduced in the mid-1990s over the vehement objections of ranchers and sportsmen, who see the animals as a threat to livestock and big-game animals such as elk and deer.

Environmentalists say the impact of wolves on cattle herds and wildlife is overstated and that the recent removal of federal safeguards could push the wolf back to the brink.

Wolves have long been vilified in the region as a menace, symbolizing for some a distant federal bureaucracy imposing its rules on the West.

"They're putting us and our way of life out of business," said Ron Casperson, co-owner of Saddle Springs Trophy Outfitters in Salmon, Idaho. "It makes me sick every day I look at this country. These wolves ... I mean, come on."

State wildlife managers had predicted that such passions would ease once the wolves were de-listed and states gained control. But discourse on the Internet and social networks appears to have grown more hostile.

Some hunters have expressed discomfort at the apparent bloodlust unleashed on the Internet, which they see as tarnishing the reputation of a sport that attracts less than 15 percent of Americans.

'SCREAMING FOR MERCY'

"There are two groups -- one supports fair chase and ethical hunting, and the other views the reintroduction of wolves and the recovery with venom," said veteran sportsman Rod Bullis of Helena, Montana.

Idaho Fish and Game Commissioner Gary Power said he was bombarded with letters and emails from people representing extremes on both sides of the debate.

"There are some folks out there stirring the pot: ‘Get rid of government, get rid of this, they shoved it down our throats, kill them all,' and they are adding to the contentiousness," he said.

Animal rights activists said they are sickened at the online flurry of pictures depicting wolf kills, and alarmed by comments suggesting a growing desire to shoot, trap and snare wolves.

"Roughly $40 million has been spent on wolf recovery, and now we are witnessing the second extermination of wolves in the West," said Wendy Keefover, director of carnivore protection for WildEarth Guardians.

Idaho and Montana are required to maintain about 150 wolves per state each year to prevent federal protection from being imposed again.

But Idaho plans to more than double the number of wolves a hunter may take in some areas for the 2012-13 season, raising their bag limit to 10.

Montana is seeking to raise its wolf-hunt quotas, and state wildlife managers are discussing allowing trapping, which is currently illegal there. At least one Montana county is considering a bounty for wolves killed by licensed hunters.

This week's email threat to the animal advocacy group Footloose Montana raised the acrimony to a new level.

The image posted on its Facebook page was taken from the Trapperman.com website, including text that joked about the wolf being shot and wounded by a passersby after it was caught -- "lucky they were not real good shots."

The photo went viral over the Internet last weekend, and on Monday Footloose Montana received the email threat.

The message said "I would like to donate a gun to your childs (sic) head to make sure you can watch it die slowly so I can have my picture taken with it's (sic) bleeding dying screaming for mercy body." Then the email, a copy of which Footloose gave to Reuters, said the recipients would be the next targets.

A Missoula Police Department detective, Sergeant Travis Welsh, confirmed this week that investigators were looking into a "report from a local institution about a malicious email."

Footloose Executive Director Anja Heister said FBI agents had interviewed a member of her group about the threat, but an FBI spokeswoman declined to comment.

By Tuesday, Trapperman.com, a site whose mission statement declares, "Always keep in mind that we are the true protectors of wildlife and the wild places in which the animals live," had removed pictures of dead or dying wolves and commentary.

(Editing by Steve Gorman, Cynthia Johnston and Sandra Maler)

News Article
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

Sounds like bunnyhuggers trying to generate some media sensation so they can start another round of lawsuits....
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

I would be interested in knowing where the threatening email actually came from.

I'm glad they can be hunted now. I fail to see what antagonizing the huggers is accomplishing, though. Best to mind our mouths for awhile yet if we can.

I'm looking forward to applying for my MN tag.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Since the de-listing last May, Idaho has cut its wolf population by about 40 percent, from roughly 1,000 to about 600 or fewer. Some 260 wolves have been killed in Montana, more than a third of its population, leaving an estimated 650 remaining</div></div>

The numbers for wolf populations are suspect at best. No one really knows how many are out there, and my personal opinion is that Fish and Game Folks on the pro-wolf agenda tend to substantially underestimate populations.

One thing is for sure, wolves are very effective hunters and killers of game animals, and continue to kill fair numbers of elk, moose, and deer.

Since I like to hunt big game animals, and they compete with me (I have enough trouble as it is
wink.gif
), I'm anti-wolf.

Wolves are getting well established in Eastern Washington, and I believe in a few years our big game populations will really be hurting. I have some trail cam pics of possibly two different wolves, and a couple co-workers encountered a pair recently in the woods.

It's a polarizing issue for sure, but I applaud the states that have open season on these animals. For those that havent, perhaps the 3S rule applies.
smirk.gif


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'">Camera was set up on site of Elk kill little remained,
shocked.gif
</span></span>

PICT0066-1.jpg




 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

We didn't even come close to our hunting quota this year and it was very conservative.

I have a very simple solution to the wolf problem. Every pro-wolf advocate should adopt one or two and take them home to live with them. This will eventually solve the problem on both ends.

John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

I would very much like to go wolf hunting for both the good it does the game animal population but also for the fur. However, the idea of an animal being strangled just sucks.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

I agree with you when I allow myself to feel to that level, but when I think of 200 prize rams slaughtered for entertainment by wolves,not eaten, left to rot. Or a cow and calf torn to pieces during the birthing process, I become less concerned about the how... Rifle hunting this year was not successful to the level we hoped. They must be throttled back and the options are not pretty.

We recently had a confirmed sighting in our city limits. It's getting out of control.

John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> However, the idea of an animal being strangled just sucks. </div></div>

Ya... so does cyanide, conibears and footholds, but they work, and they work quite well, I prefer a copper jacketed projectile traveling very fast, and upon impact it creates a wound channel so devastating by rapid penetration and expansion, it renders the animal... dead... or a nice little snare, with no noise and a quick slip of tension, would work just fine in doing its job... killing the animal dead, especially on these elk killers.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skinney</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> However, the idea of an animal being strangled just sucks. </div></div>

Ya... so does cyanide, conibears and footholds, but they work, and they work quite well. </div></div>

Exactly... and this isn't the first time we've been here. The US Gov't *PAID* to have them virtually eliminated the first time for a very good reason. Why we have to relearn this lesson is beyond me.

John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

F**K the wolf, I think a aerial assault would work the best but leg traps work too.
We have the same problem here in Oregon with the seals, we can't catch the salmon because they are endangered. But it's OK for the seals to sit at the damn and eat all they can. This is all BS will we ever learn.
Which came first the chicken or the egg, but really it's getting that dumb.
Sorry for ranting,
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: normbal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shoot. Shovel. Shut up.

Someone forgot to shovel?</div></div> Amen brother, but hey I'm working on it.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

I don't know much about the wolf thing but as I understand it, the species of wolf that the government re-introduced back in the Yellowstone area was not what was originally there but a larger species from Canada.
This larger wolf is more than enough and then some to reduce the population of other animals and like any other non-native introduced species now causes problems such as carp, etc.
Is that right? Are these a larger animal than the wolves that were originally there?
I spent 2 weeks at Yellowstone 2 years ago and during that time I saw about 30 elk and only 2 deer. I did see several wolves.
In West Yellowstone, I saw quite a few locals with T-shirts that showed a few wolves inside a crosshair circle with the words,"Smoke a Pack a Day"
The shirts weren't available in the tourist trap T-shirt shops or I would of had one myself.
Is that right about the larger species or Myth?
Regards, FM
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

It's no lie . I shot this "Makenzie " wolf in Midvale Idaho . This whole thing is a bad science circus....These monsters are not the Canis lupus irremotus , they are Canis lupus occidentalis . It's like replacing a Black bear with Kodiak . Nature doesn't work like that IMO.
DSCF6845.jpg
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

does anyone really think that wolves aren't a constant threat to humans? Wait till your kids get eaten for lunch!

<span style="font-weight: bold">Wolf Seen By Kalispell Middle School</span>

http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/30547854/detail.html

KALISPELL, Mont. -- It’s not a sight you’d expect to see at Kalispell Middle School: a wolf running through the football field. Yet that’s exactly what one Kalispell witness filmed using a camera phone.

Sheriff’s deputies, Kalispell Police and FWP officials searched for a wolf in Kalispell on Saturday after receiving several calls reporting sightings. FWP officials were able to confirm that the animal was a wolf after reviewing dash-cam footage.

FWP Biologist Erik Wenum said the animal is wearing a radio collar, but that it might not be working. He also said the wolf could have traveled from as far away as Canada.

According to Wenum, FWP officials are scanning radio frequencies as calls come in, but the wolf’s collar might have malfunctioned or run out of battery life.

Wenum said the last sighting on Saturday occurred near the Farm to Market and Pine Road intersection, and that the wolf was heading west. Wenum said FWP also responded to a call at about 8:30 am on Sunday morning near the Farm to Market and Four Mile Drive intersection, but only found coyote tracks.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longspring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's no lie . I shot this "Makenzie " wolf in Midvale Idaho . This whole thing is a bad science circus....These monsters are not the Canis lupus irremotus , they are Canis lupus occidentalis . It's like replacing a Black bear with Kodiak . Nature doesn't work like that IMO.
DSCF6845.jpg
</div></div>
A+1 for you brother! Ive decided this country will never learn, heck we borrowed 60C on every dollar for the wolf program from Chinese..... Is that wise...
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

"Some hunters have expressed discomfort at the apparent bloodlust unleashed on the Internet, which they see as tarnishing the reputation of a sport that attracts less than 15 percent of Americans."

Wow... I love how they slant the numbers... lets do the math.

15% x 330,000,000 = 49,500,000

No matter the percentage, thats a lot of people. And, it's probably a low, very low estimate. I bet this article was written by the center for biological diversity...
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with you when I allow myself to feel to that level, but when I think of 200 prize rams slaughtered for entertainment by wolves,not eaten, left to rot. Or a cow and calf torn to pieces during the birthing process, I become less concerned about the how... Rifle hunting this year was not successful to the level we hoped. They must be throttled back and the options are not pretty.

We recently had a confirmed sighting in our city limits. It's getting out of control.

John </div></div>

The wolf is doing nothing more than what Nature has shown it must do to survive. It has no choice or moral framework to guide its actions other than instinct. To use the examples of how wolves kills as though to say they are committing atrocities is placing human values on animals.

Humans have choices through Gods Grace. We should make them wisely and humanely when it comes to killing.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The wolf is doing nothing more than what Nature has shown it must do to survive. It has no choice or moral framework to guide its actions other than instinct. To use the examples of how wolves kills as though to say they are committing atrocities is placing human values on animals.</div></div>

Are you implying that animals don't have "fun"? I don't think you have to have a basis for moral decision to enjoy yourself... My dog has very obvious "fun" all the time. Is it moral to her? No. Just fun. Is it moral to me? Yup... because nobody gets hurt and we both walk away enriched by an hour of throwing, chasing and returning a ball which is not harmed (well... not as far as it knows, but in addition to not having any basis for moral decision, it's pretty much inanimate).

Do wolves have fun? You bet. How else do you explain killing in mass a domesticated animal that is penned and is absolutely no threat to the wolf. Not even used for food when it's done. Is that moral to the wolf? Like you said... they have no basis for making that judgement or being driven by it. Is it moral to the rancher? I think not.

Is it moral to excuse immoral means to obtain a moral end? I think this is where you meant to go. And my answer is no, with qualification. Who decides morality? To one, it is immoral to kill.... ever. To another, it is moral to kill in self defense. To yet another is is moral to kill in retribution for the breaking of the "moral code". You might argue that we have that moral code written within us. It would seem to be buried quite deep in some.

To be sure this is a challenging issue for us with emotions high on both sides... but you do raise a very good point... that at some point our actions can cause us to slide to the level of the very creature we so very badly want to destroy by any means.

John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longspring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's no lie . I shot this "Makenzie " wolf in Midvale Idaho . This whole thing is a bad science circus....These monsters are not the Canis lupus irremotus , they are Canis lupus occidentalis . It's like replacing a Black bear with Kodiak . Nature doesn't work like that IMO.
DSCF6845.jpg
</div></div>

Dude, that is a Christmas card photo if i ever saw one!
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The wolf is doing nothing more than what Nature has shown it must do to survive. It has no choice or moral framework to guide its actions other than instinct. To use the examples of how wolves kills as though to say they are committing atrocities is placing human values on animals.</div></div>

Are you implying that animals don't have "fun"? I don't think you have to have a basis for moral decision to enjoy yourself... My dog has very obvious "fun" all the time. Is it moral to her? No. Just fun. Is it moral to me? Yup... because nobody gets hurt and we both walk away enriched by an hour of throwing, chasing and returning a ball which is not harmed (well... not as far as it knows, but in addition to not having any basis for moral decision, it's pretty much inanimate).

Do wolves have fun? You bet. How else do you explain killing in mass a domesticated animal that is penned and is absolutely no threat to the wolf. Not even used for food when it's done. Is that moral to the wolf? Like you said... they have no basis for making that judgement or being driven by it. Is it moral to the rancher? I think not.

Is it moral to excuse immoral means to obtain a moral end? I think this is where you meant to go. And my answer is no, with qualification. Who decides morality? To one, it is immoral to kill.... ever. To another, it is moral to kill in self defense. To yet another is is moral to kill in retribution for the breaking of the "moral code". You might argue that we have that moral code written within us. It would seem to be buried quite deep in some.

To be sure this is a challenging issue for us with emotions high on both sides... but you do raise a very good point... that at some point our actions can cause us to slide to the level of the very creature we so very badly want to destroy by any means.

John </div></div>

Whatever the reason for the wolf to kill the fact is, it's how nature has molded the wolf. This the central point against and flaw in judging the actions or, as we perceive them to be, the motives of an animal within a human context.

When a dog mauls a child do we seriously consider the dog evil in that it wanted to maul the child because it's knows what it's doing and hates children? No. It's the dog's nature within the context of how it's been reared, nothing to do with the dog's set of choices.

To want to kill, regardless of the method, anything that has no free will or ability beyond instinct to measure its own actions, because we don't like those actions or find them inconvenient and WORSE because of the follies of other humans is a decision based on flawed logic.

By all means enable balance, but in so doing, there should be balance as well.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

I'm not sure if I care what the wolfs motivation is. It's behavior is anti-social. I don't care WHY it's anti-social. I just want it to stop. If it requires the death of the wolf, I'm OK with that.

John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

What the article fails to mention when it says that wolves roamed free is that in the 40's the number of big game animals like deer and elk were substantially larger due to less people and more habitat.

We have seen first hand what poor predator management does to the deer and elk populations in our state. Years back when the state made it illegal to use dogs to hunt cougar and bear the big game population took a huge dive. My dad was telling me about certain places we hunt in the high country that in the 80's you could see 20-30 nice bucks in a weekend, now we see 7-9 black bears in a weekend. Now we are lucky if we see a 2 point buck.

It boils down to rights, they want to give predators like cougar, bear, and wolves the rights to all the big game animals and they want to take the rights of hunters away.

They see too many Disney movies where wolves are like people and they don't hurt other animals. They don't spend enough time in the wilderness to see a pack of wolves tear out the stomach of a cow Elk for sport and then leave it to die. Wolves are insatiable and sadistic in nature, these people refuse to open their eyes.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

Holy shit, get one of them to eat a couple of these tree hugging hippies they might change their tunes. Thats a big ole Canine of any sort....
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

Damn, I feel for you guys out west. The ranchers are taking a beating also. I'm with the shoot, shovel, shut up mind set. And to take it a step further, no pictures. What the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't feel.

IMO, this wolf reintroduction is an attempt to end hunting as we know it. If wolves decimate game populations to levels so low that you can't get a tag, for fill in the blank, you have effectively slowed, or eventualy stopped hunting as we know it. I cannot see a single benefit to reintroducing wolves, not one!
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longspring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's no lie . I shot this "Makenzie " wolf in Midvale Idaho . This whole thing is a bad science circus....These monsters are not the Canis lupus irremotus , they are Canis lupus occidentalis . It's like replacing a Black bear with Kodiak . Nature doesn't work like that IMO.
DSCF6845.jpg
</div></div>

Very nice. That thing is huge!!
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

imagine a dozen of those following you out to your deer stand, shit!
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

wow thats huge, i wish i got one this year! great photo!
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longspring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's no lie . I shot this "Makenzie " wolf in Midvale Idaho . This whole thing is a bad science circus....These monsters are not the Canis lupus irremotus , they are Canis lupus occidentalis . It's like replacing a Black bear with Kodiak . Nature doesn't work like that IMO.
DSCF6845.jpg
</div></div>

How much did that weigh?? Freakin HUGE!!
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

When I came back in 1968 I had lost my taste for killing. Oh, if I needed to feed my family, or protect myself or them, or my pets or livestock I would have no qualms. However killing for fun, or sport, or whatever you want to call it I just can't do it anymore. One day I'll have to face my maker and atone for my sins I accept that, I just don't want to add any more baggage to the list. Everything has a right to life in God's eyes, so without real justification I think I'll pass.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

You guys are gonna love this- I was in Redding, CA the other day in a restaurant eating lunch with my wife and little boy. At the table next to us sat 3 very liberal hippie looking women with California Fish and Wildlife patches on there arms. I couldn't help but eaves drop in their in conversation. They were talking about 3 wolves with specific numbers (of which I can't remember) that were found to be living in California. They talked as if they were soo excited and that it was an interdepartmental secret to keep it hush hush until the population gets big enough to "defend" itself!!!!!! I was infuriated!! I couldn't believe that CdFg employees were keeping a secret to help the wolf get a start in a state that will do nothing but create laws that other states will eventually follow to protect the wolf!! California is such a rancid place- it's really too bad too- there are se really nice normal people there, who are demonized by the actions of a few in the metro areas. Wait until those wolves kill a hippie on a hike. They'll start feeding the bastards cause they must be going hungry to eat a human.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

This is hilarious. You guys are acting like if you don't kill all of the wolves that they will kill all of us. Wolf hunting should be tagged like most other species so we can regulate their population without wiping them out again. They have as much right to exist as any other animal and more right to the places they habitat than any of us do. I'm not anti-hunting but I am anti-extermination.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PanaDP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is hilarious. You guys are acting like if you don't kill all of the wolves that they will kill all of us. Wolf hunting should be tagged like most other species so we can regulate their population without wiping them out again. They have as much right to exist as any other animal and more right to the places they habitat than any of us do. I'm not anti-hunting but I am anti-extermination. </div></div>

Well spoken coming from a guy who lives in L.A.

IIRC, it was your state that first championed the women's cause that we should "Keep your laws off my body".

I would ask you to keep your opinions to yourself and your laws off my state. We live here. You don't. We have to deal with the problem and you don't. I won't tell you what I think of your illegal alien problem and what to do about it, if you will reciprocate. In return, we'll make sure our problem doesn't make it to your area to become a problem for you if you'll do likewise.

John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PanaDP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is hilarious. You guys are acting like if you don't kill all of the wolves that they will kill all of us. Wolf hunting should be tagged like most other species so we can regulate their population without wiping them out again. They have as much right to exist as any other animal and more right to the places they habitat than any of us do. I'm not anti-hunting but I am anti-extermination. </div></div>

Well spoken coming from a guy who lives in L.A.

IIRC, it was your state that first championed the women's cause that we should "Keep your laws off my body".

I would ask you to keep your opinions to yourself and your laws off my state. We live here. You don't. We have to deal with the problem and you don't. I won't tell you what I think of your illegal alien problem and what to do about it, if you will reciprocate. In return, we'll make sure our problem doesn't make it to your area to become a problem for you if you'll do likewise.

John</div></div>

Are you serious?

Too bad you didn't live back in the old days and could just have finished off the buffalo, elephants, lions and tigers.

Why don't you off your neighbor because you want his property as well... Where does it stop....
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasleftychef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are you serious? </div></div>

Yup... pretty much serious. And when you have over a 100 posts and live where wolves are a problem for you, then you too will qualify to weigh in on this issue.

John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasleftychef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WTF does it matter how many posts I have? Does the amount of post matter on the opinion? </div></div>

YES. Plus my weiner is bigger than yours
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasleftychef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WTF does it matter how many posts I have? Does the amount of post matter on the opinion? </div></div>

YES. Plus my weiner is bigger than yours </div></div>


And... we can always count on Spartan to bring a modicum of seriousness to an otherwise comedic subject.
wink.gif


John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would ask you to keep your opinions to yourself and your laws off my state. We live here. You don't. We have to deal with the problem and you don't. I won't tell you what I think of your illegal alien problem and what to do about it, if you will reciprocate.
John </div></div>

Don't really give a shit if I don't live there right now. My tax dollars took part in repopulating those wolf packs and I think they're a valuable part of that part of the world which I am very close to. I was born in Bozeman and have spent a great deal of time there. The bottom line is that trying to eradicate an entire species is senseless and cruel. I don't see the problem with being allowed to shoot them when you see them on your property and calling it quits with the traps, snares, and poison. That's just cruel and unsporting. It's just trying to survive like you are.

Also, please do tell me what should be done about the illegal immigrant problem. I almost guarantee you that we'd agree on it. Not everybody in LA is retarded, just most people.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teamor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">didn't they just pass a law or something in WY so you dont have to have a tag for wolf and there is no bag limit just like a coyote </div></div>

Yeah, except in the "Yellowstone Park area" Haven't heard where that line is going to be drawn for sure yet, the park for sure, but there is going to be a "demilitarized zone" surrounding the outside of the park somewhere and if they are outside of that they are free for the picking!
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

I will be making a run up there this fall with my cousins to try and do my part, Montana too, (I grew up in Montana too, and I suppose my tax dollars went to putting those big bastards in there, but I won't feel cheated if I can snuff a few of 'em out!)
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PanaDP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't really give a shit if I don't live there right now. My tax dollars took part in repopulating those wolf packs and I think they're a valuable part of that part of the world which I am very close to. I was born in Bozeman and have spent a great deal of time there. The bottom line is that trying to eradicate an entire species is senseless and cruel. I don't see the problem with being allowed to shoot them when you see them on your property and calling it quits with the traps, snares, and poison. That's just cruel and unsporting. It's just trying to survive like you are.
</div></div>

The point is that we don't care where you were born or go on vacation. You don't live here so you gave up your right to input. Sure, you can have your opinion... you know what they say about those, but to affect policy you should have to live here. This is at the core of this and many others issues like it. People who don't live in one region thinking that blanket policies will work for everyone. If this had remained a local issue, it would have been dealt with appropriately as it developed, but because the local FWP hands were tied by Federal policy, the pendulum swung way past center. Now we have a rapidly growing wolf population that is quickly getting out of control. Wolves that don't stay in their habitat as their numbers are artificially protected. They expand their territory to meet their growing need. Now we have a public relations problem as people all over the country who think there opinion should matter weigh in on the topic and it becomes debated at an emotional level rather than rational and fact driven.

You at least see the wisdom in control by hunting. I'm not for the total eradication, although I would not shed a tear. I like to look at Tyrannosaur bones, but I don't get all weepy-eyed because his cute little self is not running around Montana and Wyoming eating neighborhood cats. I just don't think it's necessary... senseless by definition. But because their (wolf) numbers were artificially allowed to balloon out of control, options may need to be looked at. Options that quite frankly are nobody elses business. I don't live in Ravalli County where a majority of our wolf problem exists. I'll trust them to deal with it, within guidelines of course. And this is the part that no one seems to understand. FWP is now in charge of responsibility for population control and trust me, they are not a bunch of toothless rednecks just hankerin' for a shot at wiping out the wolves. Our local wolf biologist was just quoted in a local article and he stated that he doesn't like to make his opinion known about the wolf issue, because he just pisses people off on both sides when he opens his mouth. I trust a guy like that more than a guy who shoots 5 deer with no tags or somebody who lives in another state to make that call.

John
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

Oh the bleating hearts!!! I am from Idaho, and let me tell you, the wolves have decimated the elk herds throughout the state. It is only a matter of time before they kill a person. They need to be eradicated from the state, they never should have been re-introduced.
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: worldhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...they never should have been re-introduced. </div></div>

The species is not being 're-introduced'. The wolves we are paying for now are much larger than the ones we killed off.


1911fan
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

It appears that many folks who support wolves live in the big cities and don't have them literally in their back yard. The reintroduction doesn't affect them, and they're caught up in the idea.

I believe that the establishment-introduction of a <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">NON-NATIVE</span></span> species will be one of the largest mistakes ever made by state and federal fish and wildlife agencies. Without substantial efforts to reduce wolf numbers, other species are at risk for elimination.

Unfortunately, Washington State is making the same errors with "managing/reintroducing" wolves, mainly due to the populist bleeding heart liberals in the west side of the state.

With wolf numbers increasing at rapid rates, as another poster stated, without a concerted population control effort, there may not be viable big game populations in many parts of the USA in a few years. That is simply not acceptable!
 
Re: Photos Of Dead Wolves Stir Emotions Out West

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You at least see the wisdom in control by hunting. I'm not for the total eradication, although I would not shed a tear.
John </div></div>

See, at least you look at it rationally, as in "There is a problem that needs to be solved." I have no problem at all with people shooting wolves on their property. That's business and it's what needs to be done to remain profitable and safe.

What bugs me are the people who say "Wolves are evil incarnate and must be wiped from the face of the earth." Then they go shooting every wolf they can find far and wide, trapping them, snaring them, and poisoning them whether or not they would be affected by a wolf population at all. It's the bloodlust to just want to kill stuff for the sake of killing stuff to which I object.