Pillar Height question!

[BlkZ06]

I’ve been bedding and installing my own pillars in my stocks for awhile, but never really dove into the ultra fine details until the other day. My rifles shoot fantastic but I do have a couple where the bottom metal isn’t visually “perfect”.

I have 2 Manners EH1 stocks, one using a Hawkins DBM and another using a KMW DBM. I’ve got a couple barreled actions I'm getting ready to bed and I figured this go round I’d make them perfect.

Basically on mock up, both DBMs sit slightly under flush by about 1/32” or so when set up with the included pillars. My question is, is it ok to cut custom length pillars a bit longer than what comes with the DBM in order to have a flush mounted bottom metal, as long as it’s reasonable like 1/32-1/16”?

I’m assuming Hawkins leaves it up to the builder to determine pillar lengths as they don’t provide any diagrams. I talked to Terry at KMW and he stated his DBM assemblies are set up for the best performance when using his precut pillars at the spec’d height, which are all printed out on his included spec sheet.

I’m guessing a small amount of adjustment
-/+ on pillar length no matter the DBM shouldn’t cause any issues but I’d like to know how you DIY’ers put yours together.

Appreciate any input!

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I read above that you have already talked to Terry however, this is a post from him on an old thread regarding another Manners stock and DBM set up that I believe is just as applicable today.

The pillar height of any DBM style bottom metal is non negotiable, period.
Use the pillars supplied with whatever is supplied with your bottom metal and do not alter them.

If something does not line up, stop....contact the maker of the bottom metal for guidance.
If after trouble shooting with the manufacturer of the bottom metal the pillars seem to be to proper spec, I would then contact the stock maker to trouble shoot the potential for a problem with the inletting.

Make sure the supplied and unmodified pillars are pinched between the receiver and bottom metal when you dry fit everything prior to bedding.
Again, the Z-axis space between the receiver and dbm has got to be to spec. You will usually try to get the DBM fitting flush with the bottom of the stock and the receiver will ultimately sit where ever the pillars put it above the top waterline of the stock.

./

Me personally, I don't think I'd trade the aesthetics for potential reliability issues by modifying the pillar height.

 

[Terry Cross]

I’m guessing a small amount of adjustment
-/+ on pillar length no matter the DBM shouldn’t cause any issues but........

Don't.
Hawkins, Badger, KMW and anybody else making hardware will have specific stand-off dims. Make sure they are followed.

Small "adjustments" will result in your magazine sitting in the wrong point in space for correct and reliable feeding. I would wager that 99% of forum posts complaining about mag latch length or magazine feed lips are actually the result of brand XYZ bottom metal being incorrectly installed.

A correctly inletted stock will have the program inletting the bottom first then adjusting the top inlet z-axis the exact amount specified by the DBM hardware. The top inlet will have the barrel channel, ejection port cut, bolt handle cut and bolt stop cuts adusted as a group vertically to meet the required spacing.
Your barreled action sitting at 0.000" or +0.030" in relation to the top waterline of the stock will never be noticed.

If your stock inlet is off, you will need to get creative but not with your pillar height.


./

 

[BlkZ06]

Don't.
Hawkins, Badger, KMW and anybody else making hardware will have specific stand-off dims. Make sure they are followed.

Small "adjustments" will result in your magazine sitting in the wrong point in space for correct and reliable feeding. I would wager that 99% of forum posts complaining about mag latch length or magazine feed lips are actually the result of brand XYZ bottom metal being incorrectly installed.

A correctly inletted stock will have the program inletting the bottom first then adjusting the top inlet z-axis the exact amount specified by the DBM hardware. The top inlet will have the barrel channel, ejection port cut, bolt handle cut and bolt stop cuts adusted as a group vertically to meet the required spacing.
Your barreled action sitting at 0.000" or +0.030" in relation to the top waterline of the stock will never be noticed.

If your stock inlet is off, you will need to get creative but not with your pillar height.


./

Fantastic info. So if the pillars are installed per spec, and I move the bottom metal down flush with the bottom of the stock, I simply need to take enough material out of the top of the stock inlet/barrel channel to allow the action to sit on the top of the pillars as designed. Correct? I have a PM CNC mill so this isn’t an issue to take small amounts out of these areas.

 

[Terry Cross]

Fantastic info. So if the pillars are installed per spec, and I move the bottom metal down flush with the bottom of the stock, I simply need to take enough material out of the top of the stock inlet/barrel channel to allow the action to sit on the top of the pillars as designed. Correct? I have a PM CNC mill so this isn’t an issue to take small amounts out of these areas.

Yes.
If you want flush bottom metal and correct aesthetics, everything is built from the bottom metal up.

All of the myriad of sporting, hunting, competition and tactical stocks have a fairly wide variation of their heights at the action area. The whole industry adjusts by having the barreled actions sitting at various heights above the stock's waterline and making all the top inletting cuts correspond accordingly. We just never notice that some sit more proud than others because the adjusted inlet makes everything pretty.