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Pistol Brace Final Ruling

nhdeadhead

Felony Farmer
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 27, 2020
141
139
Curious to see how this unfolds or upholds but these are our “options” supposedly.



 
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Fatf
87147CD5-9BEF-466F-BCC7-7848DBF00D77.jpeg
 
Let me know when it is made a federal law.

These alphabet idiots conducting unconstitutional no-knock searches and charging law abiding citizens with "constructive intent" like they are the f'ing thought police is an embarrassment to law enforcement. Every single one of them should be ashamed if they ever follow or follow or enforce these illegal rulings based on department "opinion."

None of this has anything to do with public safety and everything to do with control of the American citizenry and dismantling the Constitution.
 
Every single one of them should be ashamed if they ever follow or follow or enforce these illegal rulings based on department "opinion
Well they’re cops so.



Can’t get a realm on where you actually have to be productive
 
On the bright side, if you have a bunch of projects that you want to SBR, buy a bunch of discount braces from fudds that will be offloading them for a pittance, put them on your project guns and then SBR them without the $200 fee during the "Grace" period. Don't give the hairsniffer and his clowns one penny more than you have to.
 
Let me know when it is made a federal law.

They’re saying after it’s entered in the federal registry (does not say when exactly this is happening) you have 120 days to register or comply or destroy. Free tax stamps on Form 1 within that period …

“Days of Al Capone are over” - Joe Burden
 
They’re saying after it’s entered in the federal registry (does not say when exactly this is happening) you have 120 days to register or comply or destroy. Free tax stamps on Form 1 within that period …

“Days of Al Capone are over” - Joe Burden
Par for the course.
 
"Final" ruling this time, promise and stuff.

Our local and surrounding DNR have said they can shive their checklist, it's a pistol in a caliber allowed for hunting then it's a pistol. If the locals don't lick fed boots they will never know, if they are boot lockers then use your damn voices and energy to get them out and good people in. These rules don't mean shit, and if any 2A groups have an ounce of sense the lawsuits are already incoming.

Stop thinking like a slave asking who's gonna let me and start thinking like a free man saying who's gonna dare to try and stop me.

 
So can't people just use this as an opportunity to get a free tax stamp and make an SBR. Cant you just dump the brace and put any stock they want on their newly registered SBR?
Im really considering grabbing like 4 lowers and getting free stamps. I already have a bunch so im in their system. If i wasnt theres no way id take this bait
 
Im really considering grabbing like 4 lowers and getting free stamps. I already have a bunch so im in their system. If i wasnt theres no way id take this bait
The downside is that they are hoping for that. Because when they finally have balls and teeth to go with their shiny badges they will come to confiscate all the convenient weapons we volunteered to their de-facto registry.
 
Im really considering grabbing like 4 lowers and getting free stamps. I already have a bunch so im in their system. If i wasnt theres no way id take this bait
I've got several suppressors, so the ATF knows who I am. I'm seriously interested in getting free tax stamps. Why not? That's an honest question. And I get the whole infringement thing, but my suppressor applications were infringements to, but I don't like jail and I enjoy the hearing I have left, so I played the game.
 
The downside is that they are hoping for that. Because when they finally have balls and teeth to go with their shiny badges they will come to confiscate all the convenient weapons we volunteered to their de-facto registry.
How is me registering my pistol any different than people who own machine guns, suppressors, or legit SBRs? I've already got several things on their registry, why not a couple more?
 
I've got several suppressors, so the ATF knows who I am. I'm seriously interested in getting free tax stamps. Why not? That's an honest question. And I get the whole infringement thing, but my suppressor applications were infringements to, but I don't like jail and I enjoy the hearing I have left, so I played the game.
If you don't like jail then read "Gulag Archipelago" and harden your body mind and spirit and choose to never go.
 
Because selling or renting a house doesn't have any paperwork involved what so ever. People don't have insurance, car registrations, or driver's licenses either.
All sounds like "infringement" to me. Too far down that line of thinking lie the folks that say "I don't care about my entire life being surveilled because I have nothing to hide."
 
And these fuckwads can't show where there is any broad based criminal problem using pistol braced firearms. Just the gang bangers gun of choice, to my limited knowledge.
 
Gonna catch some shit for this but longterm I think this is good. SCOTUS right now is as 2A friendly as it will probably ever be. There is going to be a crap load of lawsuits filed. Given SCOTUS recent decisions on NYSRPA v Bruen, West Virginia v EPA and recent bump stock decisions there is HIGH likelihood that these rules/"laws" will be struck down and precedent will be set regarding further ATF bullshit.

Short term this is absolute BS. But long term this could be great as it gives the 2A legal community a great opportunity to severely limit ATF shenanigans in the future by setting legal presedents.

Let the flaming begin
 
Gonna catch some shit for this but longterm I think this is good. SCOTUS right now is as 2A friendly as it will probably ever be. There is going to be a crap load of lawsuits filed. Given SCOTUS recent decisions on NYSRPA v Bruen, West Virginia v EPA and recent bump stock decisions there is HIGH likelihood that these rules/"laws" will be struck down and precedent will be set regarding further ATF bullshit.

Short term this is absolute BS. But long term this could be great as it gives the 2A legal community a great opportunity to severely limit ATF shenanigans in the future by setting legal presedents.

Let the flaming begin
I am picking up what you are putting down. It grates me that this kind of strategizing is even necessary but what can we expect when hanging traitors and tarring and feathering political con-men has not been practiced in so long.
 
So if you do the do, does your pistol become an SBR? If so there's states where that would make you felon. An interesting wrinkle from a legal aspect, when complying would federal NON law causes you to violate state law.
 
So if you do the do, does your pistol become an SBR? If so there's states where that would make you felon. An interesting wrinkle from a legal aspect, when complying would federal NON law causes you to violate state law.
Certainly throws a wrench in the works as far as traveling with them as it were...
 
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Dont forget:

You have to now have them engraved, devaluing your legally owned Item. It makes it immensely harder to resell.

It takes over a year to get paperwork now. It will take 5 years for them to get the forms done correctly. If you mess up once, you will not have your paper work done on time. They will start showing up to take you illegally owned shit.

If you think this is good for any reason that a legally owned item has to be registered, next it will be all your guns.
 
So in regards to the "free" tax stamp... I'm not sure I'm getting this part in my head. IF the item in question scores 4 points or less according to Form 4499 (Which is mind boggling dumb! No sights is 1 point?!? WTF?) it is a pistol, right? Is it a Title 1 firearm at that point or does it still need a tax stamp? Assuming that... Say something scored, oh, 22 points and is "not" a pistol does the free tax stamp still apply or are you just in posession of an unregistered SBR and royally fucked if you comply? I guess I'm asking if the free stamp thing applys to anything with a brace or only things with a brace that the ATF says are "pistols"?

P.S. Anyone else noticed that Silencer shop has a Form 1 Beta running? Hmmmm.
 
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The downside is that they are hoping for that. Because when they finally have balls and teeth to go with their shiny badges they will come to confiscate all the convenient weapons we volunteered to their de-facto registry.
If youve ever order parts or used your credit card in a lgs your in their sights to. 4473? Member here? They may not know everything you have but they know you are worth a visit if confiscation happens.
 
Gonna catch some shit for this but longterm I think this is good. SCOTUS right now is as 2A friendly as it will probably ever be. There is going to be a crap load of lawsuits filed. Given SCOTUS recent decisions on NYSRPA v Bruen, West Virginia v EPA and recent bump stock decisions there is HIGH likelihood that these rules/"laws" will be struck down and precedent will be set regarding further ATF bullshit.

Short term this is absolute BS. But long term this could be great as it gives the 2A legal community a great opportunity to severely limit ATF shenanigans in the future by setting legal presedents.

Let the flaming begin


I was thinking the same this morning. After Carghill they have to know this is 99.9% likely to get shot down and yet they still did it. So the question is why?

Are they just being fuckers, because they can be fuckers with no accountability or is (a stretch I know) is it possible we have a Patriot up there somewhere that wants this to go to SCOTUS now?

I’m after seeing how the government treats us over the last 20-25 years I am inclined to think option 1, but I have the slightest glimmer of hope…..
 
I was thinking the same this morning. After Carghill they have to know this is 99.9% likely to get shot down and yet they still did it. So the question is why?

Are they just being fuckers, because they can be fuckers with no accountability or is (a stretch I know) is it possible we have a Patriot up there somewhere that wants this to go to SCOTUS now?

I’m after seeing how the government treats us over the last 20-25 years I am inclined to think option 1, but I have the slightest glimmer of hope…..
They literally have nothing to lose. They aren't getting sued nor do they have to foot the legal bill for the inevitable challenges. The did because they can and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
 
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They literally have nothing to lose. They aren't getting sued nor do they have to foot the legal bill for the inevitable challenges. The did because they can and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

Actually, there is but congress doesn’t have the balls.
 
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/SNARK ON

Wait, wait…

Are you telling the U.S. Government made a decision, then changed their mind, and that this mind changing is probably a symbolic gesture only as the U.S. Government knows it will lose?

Well THAT’s never happened before…

/SNARK OFF

-Stan
 
I just visited e-file and this is waht I got when I clicked to add a weapon with a brace to my trust:


To lawfully register the firearm to a trust, the trust must have possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023. Accordingly, you must submit with the application documentation that establishes the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.

Can I register my "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to my trust pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F?

A trust may not register a “stabilizing brace” equipped firearm pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F unless the trust can establish through documentary evidence that the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.

Under the final rule, the Attorney General has authorized a tax forbearance that allows current possessors of "stabilizing brace" equipped firearms that meet the definition of "rifle" and have a barrel or barrels less than 16 inches to register the firearms tax-free. A current possessor is a person1 who possessed the "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm prior to January 13, 2023.

Accordingly, any trust that seeks to register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F must include with the eForm 1 application evidence that establishes the trust is the current possessor of the "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm, and possessed it before January 13, 2023. This evidence will generally include the signed, dated, and notarized terms of the trust or trust schedules that list or provide a description of the property held in trust. Accordingly, for trust applicants, ATF will perform a thorough review of the trust documents provided with the eForm 1 application to ensure the firearm sought to be registered to the trust was property possessed by the trust before January 13, 2023. Therefore, an eForm 1 application to register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to a trust will be disapproved if the applicant fails to demonstrate the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023.

How can a current possessor who is an individual register a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm to a trust or other legal entity?

A "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm that is currently possessed by an individual after January 13, 2023 can only be registered to that individual pursuant to Final Rule 2021R-08F. Any individual possessing a "stabilizing brace" equipped firearm in his or her individual capacity who wants to register the firearm to a trust or other legal entity must first register the firearm as an individual within the 120-day tax forbearance period, then submit a tax-paid ATF Form 4 transferring the firearm from the individual to the trust or other legal entity.

[1] For purposes of the NFA, the term "person" is defined as "an individual, a trust, estate, partnership, association, company or corporation." 26 U.S.C. § 7701(a)(1).
 
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The points worksheet was not adopted meaning the ATF entirely gets to subjectively decide whether what you have is already an SBR under their rule making. This rulemaking is effective the day it gets published in the Federal Register.

They did adopt six criteria from the original worksheet. But there is no way that hell will freeze over and they would decide in the 'goodness of their heart' to not fuck you. The TLDR: is that their interpretation is everything is now an SBR and you have 120 days to decide what to do before they start enforcement.

Beyond this fuckery about oh hey it is legal for the past 10 years now it suddenly isn't. I don't want to have to submit fingerprints, a mugshot and pictures of my gun. You know damn well your information is getting stored by the FBI permanently. Suddenly after rulemaking 41P was published now federal law enforcement needs to treat gun owners like criminals while ignoring actual violent criminals. That's fucked as well.
 
They entered it in the registry today, clocks ticking’

now you brace owners are felony farmers too.

If you didn’t own the brace(s) before 1/13 you don’t get a free stamp and if you didn’t add it to your trust by 1/13 you can only file as an individual.

What’s going to happen to all these dealers that don’t hold an appropriate license to sell nfa items? There’s got to be thousands and thousands of these things in the wild waiting to be sold. They fail to mention after the amnesty period you need to pay over $200 for a tax stamp and then wait for fucking ever to have it approved and be tied down to different legal stipulations than before.
 
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What’s going to happen to all these dealers that don’t hold an appropriate license to sell nfa items? There’s got to be thousands and thousands of these things in the wild waiting to be sold. They fail to mention after the amnesty period you need to pay over $200 for a tax stamp and then wait for fucking ever to have it approved and be tied down to different legal stipulations than before.
This is a good question that I hadn’t considered.
Even for dealers licensed to deal in NFA, are these transferable today?
Got a promo email yesterday offering heavily discounted braced pistols.
How can these even be transferred now?
My understanding is that, while owners have 120 days or whatever to register their guns, they are considered SBR’s as of right now.
Might be simplest to part them out and destroy the receiver and brace.
I have wanted one of the Daniel Defense .300 BK PDW uppers to drop onto one of my SBR lowers.
They didn’t offer the upper separately and a pistol version never appealed to me.
Might finally be able to get an upper.

ETA: This is going to completely screw anyone hoping to get anything else NFA transferred on anything approaching a reasonable timeline.
 
So if I didn’t lose all mine ina. Boating accident last year I still couldn’t file anything as all my suppressors and SBR’s are in a trust. Wtf.
 
From their FAQ:

12. CAN I REGISTER MY FIREARM WITH A “STABILIZING BRACE” TO MY TRUST? • Yes, however, the firearm would have needed to be owned by the trust prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Evidence that the firearms was in trust should be provided with the registration document.

So I am confused.
Let's say a person decided to go ahead and go along with this bullshit and register their braced pistol as a SBR. Are they not allowed to do a Form 1 as a trust now?
 
From their FAQ:

12. CAN I REGISTER MY FIREARM WITH A “STABILIZING BRACE” TO MY TRUST? • Yes, however, the firearm would have needed to be owned by the trust prior to the date the final rule is published in the Federal Register. Evidence that the firearms was in trust should be provided with the registration document.

So I am confused.
Let's say a person decided to go ahead and go along with this bullshit and register their braced pistol as a SBR. Are they not allowed to do a Form 1 as a trust now?
Only if the firearm was in your trust prior to the date the final rule is published (which is rare as most people don't add non NFA items to their trust)
 
1) it will be a normal SBR, in other words you can go back to a stock if you want just like a normal SBR, worst case if you change length you have to notify them of the change.
There is no requirement to notify them for a barrel length change.
Once it’s a SBR all barrel lengths are legal as it’s either a SBR or it’s not.
They request that you notify them if you make a permanent change to barrel length, in the interest of keeping their records accurate, but there is no legal requirement.

Additionally, only moves out of State require notification.

Simplest thing for those who do not want to involve themselves with NFA is to simply change the barrel to one of greater than 16” in length.

 
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Anyone that signs up for the “free” tax stamp is a fucking idiot! Y’all gonna be the first fuckers to get your dog shot. Y’all think the aft is doin this out of the kindness of their hearts? The “rule” is unconstitutional, and they know it, this is back door gun registration.
They know they ain’t gonna get em all, but they gonna get some of you retards to bite.
 
ATF:

"We'll trade you a free SBR registration for your Constitutional rights."

Half of the Hide:

"Okay!"
It's my constitutional right to have a suppressor too, but I like my job and freedom so I followed the bullshit rules and waited 28 months collectively for my first 2 suppressors. Are they registered? Yes they are.

If you want to make your own suppressors from solvent traps and not follow the rules, I don't give a shit. You do you. But I have several pistols that fall into the new rule change, the risk vs. reward for non compliance isnt there for me. If you want to throw the bones to the ATF, again, I don't give a shit, you do you.
 
Anyone that signs up for the “free” tax stamp is a fucking idiot! Y’all gonna be the first fuckers to get your dog shot. Y’all think the aft is doin this out of the kindness of their hearts? The “rule” is unconstitutional, and they know it, this is back door gun registration.
They know they ain’t gonna get em all, but they gonna get some of you retards to bite.
Right!! Because the ATF is going to use their limited resources to go after people who follow the rule and everyone who doesn't comply will be perfectly safe. That's how law enforcement works in this country. And I'm the fucking idiot?

There is thread after thread on shooting forums about the ATF executing the families of Form 1 and form 4 tax stamp holders. It happens 5x a day. I don't know why anyone would expose themselves to that... oh wait, no, there is literally thread after thread about people bitching about how long the wait for tax stamps are.
 
Right!! Because the ATF is going to use their limited resources to go after people who follow the rule and everyone who doesn't comply will be perfectly safe. That's how law enforcement works in this country. And I'm the fucking idiot?

There is thread after thread on shooting forums about the ATF executing the families of Form 1 and form 4 tax stamp holders. It happens 5x a day. I don't know why anyone would expose themselves to that... oh wait, no, there is literally thread after thread about people bitching about how long the wait for tax stamps are.
You really don’t get it do you, after bruen and all the other shit getting hammered in court right now, the aft knows this stupid ass “rule” won’t pass the sniff test, but you go on ahead and get your “free” tax stamp, and when this gets ruled unconstitutional, they’ll know everyone that was gonna fall in line. I’m gonna go ahead and quote you; “you do you”!