Please please please help. brass stretching too much.

[prodigalson]

Straight to the point. I have begun collecting brass to start reloading for .223 to shoot in my AR15. I am new to reloading, but I have read enough and watched people enough to feel comfortable doing it myself.

I went out and bought an RCBS small base .223/5.56 die set. I set it up just like I was taught and what I've read (raise the ram, thread die until it touches, add 1/4 turn, lock it down). I grab a handful of once fired, mixed brass and start resizing. I get about 20-30 sized, then I begin pulling random samples to measure for case length.

My book states that the maximum case length for .223 is 1.760". Long story short, between the Lake City (5.56) and Remington (.223) brass approximately 80% of those cases are coming out over size. Usually measuring close to 1.768".

I really really don't want to trim all these cases by hand because I've already found out, that sucks. Is there something I could be doing wrong? Maybe the die is not set up correctly?

Just please help. I'm so frustrated about this. Thank you all!

 

[Nortex]

You are not measuring the sizing to do that you would measure off the shoulder and body.

 

[50APIT]

Straight to the point. I have begun collecting brass to start reloading for .223 to shoot in my AR15. I am new to reloading, but I have read enough and watched people enough to feel comfortable doing it myself.

I went out and bought an RCBS small base .223/5.56 die set. I set it up just like I was taught and what I've read (raise the ram, thread die until it touches, add 1/4 turn, lock it down). I grab a handful of once fired, mixed brass and start resizing. I get about 20-30 sized, then I begin pulling random samples to measure for case length.

My book states that the maximum case length for .223 is 1.760". Long story short, between the Lake City (5.56) and Remington (.223) brass approximately 80% of those cases are coming out over size. Usually measuring close to 1.768".

I really really don't want to trim all these cases by hand because I've already found out, that sucks. Is there something I could be doing wrong? Maybe the die is not set up correctly?

Just please help. I'm so frustrated about this. Thank you all!

Your die is probably not setup correctly and is likely bumping the shoulders back too much on the brass. The technique of using a 1/4 turn after the die touches works better with handgun brass than it does for rifle brass. Do you have a case gauge or comparator to measure the brass to ensure you have the die setup correctly?
There is also the possibility that the brass was shot in a loose chamber and that after sizing it, it is now over the max length.
However, if you are going to be loading much for your ar or any semi-auto, you will have to get used to trimming the brass.

 

[hlee]

Brass stretches and needs to be trimmed. It is a fact of life. It is why reloading books list a "trim to" length.

If you absolutely do not want to trim your brass you could shoot factory loads...

There are several trimmers out there including manual offerings from Lee, Lyman, RCBS and Hornady. Some of those can be adapted to run off of a drill. Also, you could look into the "World's Finest Trimmer" and the Giraud Trimmer. I am sure there are others but, these are the ones that come to my mind the fastest. If you want to reload you will eventually need to trim your brass, unless you are lucky enough that your AR15 trashes the brass on the first firing...

 

[bigedp51]

You pull the trigger and 55,000 psi causes the cartridge case to expand to your chambers dimensions. Then the brass springs back slightly smaller than your chamber dimensions and your AR15 then throws a perfectly good piece of brass away.

Then you squeeze the brass back to a smaller size in your full length resizing die and the brass has only one direction to move while being squeezed and that is upward in the die and this makes the case longer in length.

Below, LOOK at the blue, red and green dotted lines and what is written in the upper right hand corner of the exaggerated drawing. You and the resizing die are not doing anything wrong and your brass is just following Newton's third law.......
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Now go out and buy a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge kit to fit on a vernier caliper, you really need one for accurate resizing and shoulder bump.

Below a Colt 5.56 Field gauge,

Below the Colt field gauge in my "calibrated" Hornady gauge reading true headspace. The gauge was reading minus .011 with the Colt field gauge in the Hornady unit. I simply loosened the set screw between the red and silver halves of the gauge and placed a .011 feeler gauge between the two halves and locked down the set screw. The gauge is now calibrated to read true cartridge head space length.

Below a fired Federal M193 case before resizing.

The same case after sizing and .003 shoulder bump.

Below a new unfired Federal M193 cartridge.

Below is a plus .004 Redding competition shell holder next to a standard RCBS shell holder. "IF" I had used the standard RCBS shell holder the shoulder of the case would have been bumped or pushed back .007 and OVER RESIZED with the press reaching cam over.

I use the Redding competition shell holders because I want the die to make hard contact with the shell holder for more uniform shoulder bump. Meaning this eliminates any flex in the press and more uniform shoulder location after sizing.

I really really don't want to trim all these cases by hand because I've already found out, that sucks. Is there something I could be doing wrong? Maybe the die is not set up correctly?

Just please help. I'm so frustrated about this. Thank you all!

If you don't like trimming your brass then find another hobby.......

Living off the grid after a Zombie apocalypse you will need a silent Lee trimmer or else you will be dead meat and the Zombies will eat your brains. So stop complaining, I had three five gallon buckets of .223/5.56 brass to trim so I bought the WFT trimmer and other powder equipment. (but the noise will attract Zombies)

And if you don't like Zombie humor then don't buy the green tipped bullets at cheaper bulk prices.

 

[FLIGHT762]

I really really don't want to trim all these cases by hand because I've already found out, that sucks. Is there something I could be doing wrong? Maybe the die is not set up correctly?

Trimming cases is a fact of life. You have to do it. I collect several manufacturers of once fired brass fired through AR-15's. Federal brass is usually a little short and doesn't need trimming. Other cases, PMC, Remington, Winchester, PPU, WCC, etc. have varying lengths after their first F/L resizing and require trimming. Some cases are as long as you stated, in excess of 1.768".

I trim cases between 1.745"-50" and load from there. Yes, case trimming is one of the biggest pains in the ass in reloading. Can't help it. You have to do it. Over the years, I've used manual lathe trimmers, moved to power lathe trimmers then to a Dillon RT 1200, to a Gracey trimmer and then to a Giraud trimmer. You will have to decide what trimmer will best fits your needs. There are the Possum hollow trimmers and the WFT trimmer that will trim cases faster than the manual lathe trimmers.

I use a single stage press for my rifle reloading the Giraud trimmer suits my needs, it is the Cadillac of trimmers and is expensive. The WFT trimmer runs about $75.00 in one caliber and may suit your needs. Something you have to decide.

 

[Jortz]

Thats why i gave you my trimmer it works but i needed to upgrade to a power trimmer. Lee trimmers work good and hookup to a drill for 10 bucks it hard to beat.

 

[prodigalson]

LoL. Points well taken. I'm off to Google land to find a good power trimmer. Thanks again all. :: hangs head and sulks::

 

[Trigger Time 23]

Worlds Finest Trimmer by Possum Hollow is a good, relatively low cost, fast trimmer if you have a lot to do.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

LoL. Points well taken. I'm off to Google land to find a good power trimmer. Thanks again all. :: hangs head and sulks::

You need to take a step back. A powered case trimmer is a great piece of equipment, but you are putting the cart before the horse.

Read, then re-read the post above by [MENTION=37563]bigedp51[/MENTION]

You've not studied reloading enough, or had skilled mentors if your method of die setup is "screw it in til it touches, and add a 1/4 turn".

The other folks saying the brass stretch/growth is a fact of life are also correct, and you will have to trim cases at some point. However, it is likely you won't need to trim the cases at all running them through an AR15 because you'll probably lose the brass before you need to, AND because most ARs have very ample clearance in the chamber to accommodate LONG brass.

BUT YOU HAVE TO MEASURE.

Get tooling to measure the "headspace length" of your brass so you can size it appropriately. Get tooling that allows you to measure the length of brass your chamber will handle. Then, just be sure the brass your loading is ~.005" LESS than that length.

For example, the SAAMI trim-to length for .308Win is 2.005". Meanwhile, most 308 chambers are long enough to handle brass 2.045 or 2.050" long. As long as your brass is ~.005" shorter than that length, all is well and trimming is NOT required.

 

[FLIGHT762]

You need to take a step back. A powered case trimmer is a great piece of equipment, but you are putting the cart before the horse.

Read, then re-read the post above by [MENTION=37563]bigedp51[/MENTION]

You've not studied reloading enough, or had skilled mentors if your method of die setup is "screw it in til it touches, and add a 1/4 turn".

The other folks saying the brass stretch/growth is a fact of life are also correct, and you will have to trim cases at some point. However, it is likely you won't need to trim the cases at all running them through an AR15 because you'll probably lose the brass before you need to, AND because most ARs have very ample clearance in the chamber to accommodate LONG brass.

BUT YOU HAVE TO MEASURE.

Get tooling to measure the "headspace length" of your brass so you can size it appropriately. Get tooling that allows you to measure the length of brass your chamber will handle. Then, just be sure the brass your loading is ~.005" LESS than that length.

For example, the SAAMI trim-to length for .308Win is 2.005". Meanwhile, most 308 chambers are long enough to handle brass 2.045 or 2.050" long. As long as your brass is ~.005" shorter than that length, all is well and trimming is NOT required.

What are your measured maximum case lengths for your 223 Rem. / 5.56 chambered AR-15's?

 

[Unknown]

I have to trim lots of cases, and found that the fastest hand held cheap trimmer is the possum hollow setup using a drill to power it. The setup cost me about $35-40. Although it doesn't de-burr cases like the really neat Giraud trimmer does, my setup didn't cost several hundred dollars either. I just run a couple of power tools, trim, de-burr outside, then inside. IF I was rich, I would prefer having the Giraud, but my cheapo setup trims really fast for a low cost alternative.

Shooting brass in a gas gun pretty much requires trimming to keep pressures safe. You can get away from trimming every time if you trim really short, but for safety, I like to check EVERY time just to make sure I won't have a round with an overlong case neck that will end up jammed into the lands.