My sons gf is asking,and I know nothing.Young,pretty,apartment dweller,atheletic enough to resist or evade.Cost not an issue,if it is,I'll help.Me,I'm not really into catch and release(non lethal).Thanks,Pete
- Thread starter lightman
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Re: Please school me on Tasers
Before you (or anyone else) goes buying ANY less-lethal device such as a taser, or carrying one, etc., PLEASE check your local/state laws on them (and if she's attending any institution of higher education...better check the institution's rules/regs/policies/procedures/etc. too).
Before you (or anyone else) goes buying ANY less-lethal device such as a taser, or carrying one, etc., PLEASE check your local/state laws on them (and if she's attending any institution of higher education...better check the institution's rules/regs/policies/procedures/etc. too).
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Taser is a brand name LE style electronic control device. Everything else for the most part is a "stun gun" If you are going to do it, do it right and either get her a C2 or try to find an X26, not sure if they float around on the civilian market that often.
Then get enough cartridges for her to train on how to use it - a poor shot can mean a single probe contact, which means - no lock up.
Taser is a brand name LE style electronic control device. Everything else for the most part is a "stun gun" If you are going to do it, do it right and either get her a C2 or try to find an X26, not sure if they float around on the civilian market that often.
Then get enough cartridges for her to train on how to use it - a poor shot can mean a single probe contact, which means - no lock up.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
alternative: pepper spray?
i tried it in the kitchen, on the wall. would not have thought what a bad idea that was ...
alternative: pepper spray?
i tried it in the kitchen, on the wall. would not have thought what a bad idea that was ...
Re: Please school me on Tasers
i thought baseball bats were in vogue at the moment in the UK....
i thought baseball bats were in vogue at the moment in the UK....
Re: Please school me on Tasers
I'd recommend pepper spray over a Taser or stun device. Pepper spray will remain effective after she's hauled ass 300 yards and the asshole won't have a clue which direction she went. A Taser or stun gun will only be effective while it's turned on and that's assuming she kept it all together and deployed it properly to begin with.
I trust the aerosol in a pepper spray can more than I would an electronic device which relies on soldered connections and batteries also.
I'd recommend pepper spray over a Taser or stun device. Pepper spray will remain effective after she's hauled ass 300 yards and the asshole won't have a clue which direction she went. A Taser or stun gun will only be effective while it's turned on and that's assuming she kept it all together and deployed it properly to begin with.
I trust the aerosol in a pepper spray can more than I would an electronic device which relies on soldered connections and batteries also.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Thanks,Guys.She is a teacher,so campus rules may apply.I like the pepper spray idea.I'm old school,I guess,with old school trust in electronic devices.Thanks for the replys,any others are welcome,too! Pete
Thanks,Guys.She is a teacher,so campus rules may apply.I like the pepper spray idea.I'm old school,I guess,with old school trust in electronic devices.Thanks for the replys,any others are welcome,too! Pete
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Um Bolt,I'm just a southern boy,its England Arkansas.But,a good bat should end most situations. Pete
Um Bolt,I'm just a southern boy,its England Arkansas.But,a good bat should end most situations. Pete
Re: Please school me on Tasers
I know this is my first post and I'll try to make a proper intro later. I guess I'm going to be the odd duck that goes against what others have said. I have been hit with both and I have used both for their intended purpose. My short answer is that OC/pepper spray sucks, and the Taser is win.
OC:
Pro's- Many companies make an OC/pepper spray that comes in a small and compact canister, which is easier to conceal. The bad guy will still be feeling the warmth of OC love a few hours after the spray, and will revist the warmth when showering if they dont use baby shampoo or milk before they hit it with water. This can be hilarious if they arent careful and get the contaminated water on the "boys". A good bust in the eyes/brow/nose area will make it hard to keep the eyes open and difficult to breath.
Con's- Notice I said hard to keep eyes open and difficult to breath. I didn't say impossible. An assailiant can fight through the effects of OC spray without much of a problem, and this is done in just about every OC training worth its salt. You WILL pray your self, get cross contaminated, blow back etc. I have never been around an OC use where this did not happen. I hate it. I want to use the tool against the BG, not myself. Those are the two biggest negatives I've noticed, and they are huge for me. OC serves a purpose, but that purpose is limited IMHO.
Taser:
Pro's- It is an Electronic Control Device that relies on Neuro-Muscular Incapacitation. In normal people speak that means it locks your s**t up. You can think, you can breath, you can kinda holler but that's about it. Your skeletal muscles lock up. You basically play "light as a feather stiff as a board" whether you want to or not. It doesn't matter if you are Hulk Hogan or tweaker McCrackhead. That is assuming you get a good contact. Taser's work by shooting (with compressed nitrogen) two straightened fish hooks out with copper wires attached. Then the electric magic happens. The Taser has a secondary, less desireable, function called the "drive stun". This uses pain compliance just like OC spray, but you have to put the end of the taser against the target to make contact. The good thing about this feature is that if you get a bad cartridge, you still have a contact weapon that hurts like a MF'er and will burn flesh. The even better thing is that if you have bad aim etc, and you only have one probe hit you can still get neuro-muscular incapacitation as if you got a good strike. You can also use the drive stun+ the probe hit to get three points of contact which really pisses you off because hurts like a mofo and you cant do anything about it. A pro of the civilian C2 Taser is that it has a cycle of 30 seconds. 5 seconds is a long ride, I couldn't imagine a 30 second ride. The reasoning behind 30 seconds is that it gives you 30 seconds to run away, which is quite a head start. If you have to use the Taser in self defense, and you file a police report, the company will replace the unit for free. They do this so you will just deploy it, drop it, and run away.
Con's- Taser's run on batteries. Taser's don't like to be submerged in water. The cartridges can fire if enought static electricity is generated on the cartridge (I've only seen this once, and it was opperator error). The cartridge can fail, hypothetically (I haven't seen it yet).
All in all I love the Taser. It is NOT a replacement for a firearm though.
Also, I am in no way affiliated with Taser. I carry an X-26 very often and have used it multiple times. I have 5 deployments on people and 2 on dogs (it works beautifully on dogs, but you have to hold it gangster style when deploying. The bottom probe comes down at an angle.)
I can't tell you how many times I've used or seen OC used. In my experience it works about 50-50 to 60/40, including dogs. YMMV
I know this is my first post and I'll try to make a proper intro later. I guess I'm going to be the odd duck that goes against what others have said. I have been hit with both and I have used both for their intended purpose. My short answer is that OC/pepper spray sucks, and the Taser is win.
OC:
Pro's- Many companies make an OC/pepper spray that comes in a small and compact canister, which is easier to conceal. The bad guy will still be feeling the warmth of OC love a few hours after the spray, and will revist the warmth when showering if they dont use baby shampoo or milk before they hit it with water. This can be hilarious if they arent careful and get the contaminated water on the "boys". A good bust in the eyes/brow/nose area will make it hard to keep the eyes open and difficult to breath.
Con's- Notice I said hard to keep eyes open and difficult to breath. I didn't say impossible. An assailiant can fight through the effects of OC spray without much of a problem, and this is done in just about every OC training worth its salt. You WILL pray your self, get cross contaminated, blow back etc. I have never been around an OC use where this did not happen. I hate it. I want to use the tool against the BG, not myself. Those are the two biggest negatives I've noticed, and they are huge for me. OC serves a purpose, but that purpose is limited IMHO.
Taser:
Pro's- It is an Electronic Control Device that relies on Neuro-Muscular Incapacitation. In normal people speak that means it locks your s**t up. You can think, you can breath, you can kinda holler but that's about it. Your skeletal muscles lock up. You basically play "light as a feather stiff as a board" whether you want to or not. It doesn't matter if you are Hulk Hogan or tweaker McCrackhead. That is assuming you get a good contact. Taser's work by shooting (with compressed nitrogen) two straightened fish hooks out with copper wires attached. Then the electric magic happens. The Taser has a secondary, less desireable, function called the "drive stun". This uses pain compliance just like OC spray, but you have to put the end of the taser against the target to make contact. The good thing about this feature is that if you get a bad cartridge, you still have a contact weapon that hurts like a MF'er and will burn flesh. The even better thing is that if you have bad aim etc, and you only have one probe hit you can still get neuro-muscular incapacitation as if you got a good strike. You can also use the drive stun+ the probe hit to get three points of contact which really pisses you off because hurts like a mofo and you cant do anything about it. A pro of the civilian C2 Taser is that it has a cycle of 30 seconds. 5 seconds is a long ride, I couldn't imagine a 30 second ride. The reasoning behind 30 seconds is that it gives you 30 seconds to run away, which is quite a head start. If you have to use the Taser in self defense, and you file a police report, the company will replace the unit for free. They do this so you will just deploy it, drop it, and run away.
Con's- Taser's run on batteries. Taser's don't like to be submerged in water. The cartridges can fire if enought static electricity is generated on the cartridge (I've only seen this once, and it was opperator error). The cartridge can fail, hypothetically (I haven't seen it yet).
All in all I love the Taser. It is NOT a replacement for a firearm though.
Also, I am in no way affiliated with Taser. I carry an X-26 very often and have used it multiple times. I have 5 deployments on people and 2 on dogs (it works beautifully on dogs, but you have to hold it gangster style when deploying. The bottom probe comes down at an angle.)
I can't tell you how many times I've used or seen OC used. In my experience it works about 50-50 to 60/40, including dogs. YMMV
Re: Please school me on Tasers
actually Taser makes a civilian version, they're smaller, not pistol shaped, and are designed to give a longer zap, (30 sec, IIRC ). under federal law, they are unregulated, and Taser will send you a new one if you have to use it for defense, it's designed to fire and drop, the 30sec ride should give someone time to get away...
http://store.taser.com/taser-c2-p116.aspx
actually Taser makes a civilian version, they're smaller, not pistol shaped, and are designed to give a longer zap, (30 sec, IIRC ). under federal law, they are unregulated, and Taser will send you a new one if you have to use it for defense, it's designed to fire and drop, the 30sec ride should give someone time to get away...
http://store.taser.com/taser-c2-p116.aspx
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Having been hit with both OC spray and a Taser if I had to chose one to do again I would probably pick the OC spray, ya it sucks but the Taser brings you to a effing halt real fast.
I'm really glad I don't have to make your choice I would much rather carry Mr. Blasty.
Having been hit with both OC spray and a Taser if I had to chose one to do again I would probably pick the OC spray, ya it sucks but the Taser brings you to a effing halt real fast.
I'm really glad I don't have to make your choice I would much rather carry Mr. Blasty.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Yea, see my post above.
Pete, I forgot to tell you:
if you get a Taser, get one with a led light and a laser. The laser becomes extremely important with the civilian C2, because it is banana-ish shaped and almost impossible to aim accurately otherwise.
Yea, see my post above.
Pete, I forgot to tell you:
if you get a Taser, get one with a led light and a laser. The laser becomes extremely important with the civilian C2, because it is banana-ish shaped and almost impossible to aim accurately otherwise.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Keep in mind that as a police officer deploying a Taser you are using it in an offensive role rather than a defensive. It's going to be tricky to deploy a Taser when you've lost the element of surprise and are already in your fight or flight mode. A female could walk from a building to her car with a small can of pepper spray in her hand without drawing much attention, a Taser not so much.
I have a box full of Tasers that don't work sitting on my desk. They are more sensitive to moisture than any cell phone I've ever owned. If they aren't spark checked regularly they go tits up. If I sound biased, I am. I've been Tased no fewer than six times in training and yes it hurts like hell. I've been pepper sprayed a few times and I'd take a Taser ride over OC/CS any day because there are no lasting effects. I've seen men rip Taser probes out of their skin while taking the ride. It isn't effective on everyone but nothing is. There are people who suffer little effect from pepper spray.
Carrying a Taser as a police officer is very different than using one for self defense. I wouldn't give a Taser to my wife for defense. Pepper spray is a better choice in my opinion and I like the foam better than regular spray.
Keep in mind that as a police officer deploying a Taser you are using it in an offensive role rather than a defensive. It's going to be tricky to deploy a Taser when you've lost the element of surprise and are already in your fight or flight mode. A female could walk from a building to her car with a small can of pepper spray in her hand without drawing much attention, a Taser not so much.
I have a box full of Tasers that don't work sitting on my desk. They are more sensitive to moisture than any cell phone I've ever owned. If they aren't spark checked regularly they go tits up. If I sound biased, I am. I've been Tased no fewer than six times in training and yes it hurts like hell. I've been pepper sprayed a few times and I'd take a Taser ride over OC/CS any day because there are no lasting effects. I've seen men rip Taser probes out of their skin while taking the ride. It isn't effective on everyone but nothing is. There are people who suffer little effect from pepper spray.
Carrying a Taser as a police officer is very different than using one for self defense. I wouldn't give a Taser to my wife for defense. Pepper spray is a better choice in my opinion and I like the foam better than regular spray.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Phylodog makes good points, very good points, but my daughter carriers both, I taught her to use the OC first, it's a small can on her keychain, the C2 stays in her bag, just another tool in the box IMHO
Phylodog makes good points, very good points, but my daughter carriers both, I taught her to use the OC first, it's a small can on her keychain, the C2 stays in her bag, just another tool in the box IMHO
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Everyone has their preferences I guess. Idk how much moisture it takes to ruin a Taser, but I've seen them deployed in the rain and in a creek. Also true on the spark test, I spark mine daily. The foam OC sucks (in a good way) to get hit with. It's like you're getting spashed with evil goop that sticks to your skin. I would rather get hit with OC in the field, because I know I can fight through it. In training I would take the Taser ride every day of the week, and twice in Sunday.
Three of my deployments were in defensive, fight or flight mode. One was a mangey German Shepard looking dog that attacked me in an apartment complex. My fist thought was go to guns, but I didn't have a good bakstop and kids were playing in the parking lot ahead of me. By the time I got the Taser out and deployed kujo wa about 3 feet from me. The other dog deployment was a pitbull that was charging then retreating on 7 of my friends and I. The last time was a drunk woman that broke a mirror and was trying to stab me with a piece of it the shining style. She'd cut a hole through the door with a knife which soon broke. She couldn't get to me through the barrier, so riding the
lighting fixed the problem.
Like I said before, to each their own. I like the taser much more than spray. It has just been much more effective for me. It's not a firearm, but some schools don't forbid them. It gives you diatance, and is also more effective (IMHO).
Everyone has their preferences I guess. Idk how much moisture it takes to ruin a Taser, but I've seen them deployed in the rain and in a creek. Also true on the spark test, I spark mine daily. The foam OC sucks (in a good way) to get hit with. It's like you're getting spashed with evil goop that sticks to your skin. I would rather get hit with OC in the field, because I know I can fight through it. In training I would take the Taser ride every day of the week, and twice in Sunday.
Three of my deployments were in defensive, fight or flight mode. One was a mangey German Shepard looking dog that attacked me in an apartment complex. My fist thought was go to guns, but I didn't have a good bakstop and kids were playing in the parking lot ahead of me. By the time I got the Taser out and deployed kujo wa about 3 feet from me. The other dog deployment was a pitbull that was charging then retreating on 7 of my friends and I. The last time was a drunk woman that broke a mirror and was trying to stab me with a piece of it the shining style. She'd cut a hole through the door with a knife which soon broke. She couldn't get to me through the barrier, so riding the
lighting fixed the problem.
Like I said before, to each their own. I like the taser much more than spray. It has just been much more effective for me. It's not a firearm, but some schools don't forbid them. It gives you diatance, and is also more effective (IMHO).
Re: Please school me on Tasers
I have been exposed to both OC and Taser and I have deployed both numerous times in the field.
In my experience, OC/CS or a combination of both is worthless against a determined attacker. In every exposure I have every had to either OC spray/powder or CS gas it has not removed my ability or will to fight. Now I may have a little higher tolerance than most due to very frequent exposure to them while in military service. However every time I was exposed I was not under the influence of alcohol or drugs. In my experience with OC spray on the street I have seen it work effectively on suspects that weren't sure if they wanted to continue the fight or not.
My experience with the X26 Taser is quite a bit different. The pain compliance works on the vast majority of subjects. The NMI (Nero-Muscular Incapacitation) has worked on any subject in which I achieved a proper probe delivery. Therein lies the problem. I have attempted a deployment, failed and ended up in a ground fight on at least two occasions.
The civilian Taser (C2) is quite a bit different than the LE Taser (x26). The civilian model is designed with a longer runtime and is supposed to be a "fire and forget" device. The intent (from the sales literature I have seen) is for a victim to fire the C2 into an attacker, then have the duration of the cycle to escape. This makes sense, but you had better be a fast runner. If not, you are going to have a pissed puppy coming after you WITH your Taser.
When it comes right down to it, she needs to be equipped with the mentality to resist. I can't tell you how many women are trained from birth to be victims. Once you train them to not just be survivors, but to be winners then you have equipped them to defend themselves. A warrior can do battle with whatever weapon he/she has at hand. That is the key. A ball-point pen in the right hands can do a whole lot more damage to a violent attacker than a Taser or Pepper Spray.
Finally, make sure you check local laws. In the State of Indiana you must carry a Personal Protection Permit in order to carry a Taser. It ends up being about the same trouble and cost to just purchase and carry a handgun here.
When gearing up to go CATCH the badguys, I would much rather carry a Taser. I have not had to replace a set of uniform pants since I was issued mine. (always end up tearing the knees out)
I can't foresee a situation where I would want to only carry OC. Most of the times I have had to respond to a civilian on civilian OC use it didn't do anything to resolve/prevent/end the fight anyway.
I have been exposed to both OC and Taser and I have deployed both numerous times in the field.
In my experience, OC/CS or a combination of both is worthless against a determined attacker. In every exposure I have every had to either OC spray/powder or CS gas it has not removed my ability or will to fight. Now I may have a little higher tolerance than most due to very frequent exposure to them while in military service. However every time I was exposed I was not under the influence of alcohol or drugs. In my experience with OC spray on the street I have seen it work effectively on suspects that weren't sure if they wanted to continue the fight or not.
My experience with the X26 Taser is quite a bit different. The pain compliance works on the vast majority of subjects. The NMI (Nero-Muscular Incapacitation) has worked on any subject in which I achieved a proper probe delivery. Therein lies the problem. I have attempted a deployment, failed and ended up in a ground fight on at least two occasions.
The civilian Taser (C2) is quite a bit different than the LE Taser (x26). The civilian model is designed with a longer runtime and is supposed to be a "fire and forget" device. The intent (from the sales literature I have seen) is for a victim to fire the C2 into an attacker, then have the duration of the cycle to escape. This makes sense, but you had better be a fast runner. If not, you are going to have a pissed puppy coming after you WITH your Taser.
When it comes right down to it, she needs to be equipped with the mentality to resist. I can't tell you how many women are trained from birth to be victims. Once you train them to not just be survivors, but to be winners then you have equipped them to defend themselves. A warrior can do battle with whatever weapon he/she has at hand. That is the key. A ball-point pen in the right hands can do a whole lot more damage to a violent attacker than a Taser or Pepper Spray.
Finally, make sure you check local laws. In the State of Indiana you must carry a Personal Protection Permit in order to carry a Taser. It ends up being about the same trouble and cost to just purchase and carry a handgun here.
When gearing up to go CATCH the badguys, I would much rather carry a Taser. I have not had to replace a set of uniform pants since I was issued mine. (always end up tearing the knees out)
I can't foresee a situation where I would want to only carry OC. Most of the times I have had to respond to a civilian on civilian OC use it didn't do anything to resolve/prevent/end the fight anyway.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
From Tues in the UK:
The police watchdog has launched an investigation following the death of a man after he was Tasered by police.
Dale Burns, 27, was Tasered several times at his flat in Barrow-in-Furness on Tuesday night as officers tried to arrest him on suspicion of causing criminal damage.
Mr Burns, who was also sprayed with pepper spray during the attempted arrest, was taken to hospital but was pronounced dead.
A post mortem examination is due to be carried out as soon as possible.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said an investigation had begun, with investigators in Barrow gathering evidence, examining police logs and getting initial accounts from officers.
The watchdog said officers were called to the upstairs flat in Hartington Street at around 6.30pm to a report of a "concern for welfare" for a man inside.
Police attended 10 minutes later and after speaking to the man decided to call an ambulance which then arrived. The IPCC said: "Police attempted to arrest the man on suspicion of causing criminal damage at the flat.
"During the arrest one officer discharged a taser at the man a number of times.
"Another officer deployed Pava spray (commonly known as pepper spray). The taser deployed is understood to be a conventional police weapon."
The IPCC said Mr Burns was restrained and taken to Furness General Hospital by police at around 7.30pm, where his condition deteriorated and he was pronounced dead at 8.41pm.
From Tues in the UK:
The police watchdog has launched an investigation following the death of a man after he was Tasered by police.
Dale Burns, 27, was Tasered several times at his flat in Barrow-in-Furness on Tuesday night as officers tried to arrest him on suspicion of causing criminal damage.
Mr Burns, who was also sprayed with pepper spray during the attempted arrest, was taken to hospital but was pronounced dead.
A post mortem examination is due to be carried out as soon as possible.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said an investigation had begun, with investigators in Barrow gathering evidence, examining police logs and getting initial accounts from officers.
The watchdog said officers were called to the upstairs flat in Hartington Street at around 6.30pm to a report of a "concern for welfare" for a man inside.
Police attended 10 minutes later and after speaking to the man decided to call an ambulance which then arrived. The IPCC said: "Police attempted to arrest the man on suspicion of causing criminal damage at the flat.
"During the arrest one officer discharged a taser at the man a number of times.
"Another officer deployed Pava spray (commonly known as pepper spray). The taser deployed is understood to be a conventional police weapon."
The IPCC said Mr Burns was restrained and taken to Furness General Hospital by police at around 7.30pm, where his condition deteriorated and he was pronounced dead at 8.41pm.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Did you have a specific point you wanted to bring to the table with that blurb?
Did you have a specific point you wanted to bring to the table with that blurb?
Re: Please school me on Tasers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you have a specific point you wanted to bring to the table with that blurb? </div></div>
Yes I did and apologies if you didn't get the intention.
The OP asked to be schooled as he says that he doesn't know anything on the subject. I thought he might appreciate knowing Tasers can be lethal if he wasn't aware already (he mentioned non-lethal and not knowing about Tasers). If his son's gf wants a Taser because she has different views on catch and releasse, or lives in a state not particularly tolerant to killing attackers then ending up with a dead person might not appeal to her. Not a problem for many and most States but just trying to highlight that while he asks about Tasers and non-lethal in the same post those two aren't mutually inclusive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you have a specific point you wanted to bring to the table with that blurb? </div></div>
Yes I did and apologies if you didn't get the intention.
The OP asked to be schooled as he says that he doesn't know anything on the subject. I thought he might appreciate knowing Tasers can be lethal if he wasn't aware already (he mentioned non-lethal and not knowing about Tasers). If his son's gf wants a Taser because she has different views on catch and releasse, or lives in a state not particularly tolerant to killing attackers then ending up with a dead person might not appeal to her. Not a problem for many and most States but just trying to highlight that while he asks about Tasers and non-lethal in the same post those two aren't mutually inclusive.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought he might appreciate knowing Tasers can be lethal if he wasn't aware already (he mentioned non-lethal and not knowing about Tasers).</div></div>
well. if it's about defence (like some force amplifiers mentioned above in addition to taser/pepper spay) and being concerned about lethal actions:
- a kick/punch to the throat can be lethal
- accidentally pushing up the nose bone towards the brain can be 'dangerous'
- cutting arteries (by accident and/or in defence) is likely lethal
for the above accidents, you only need will, a sharpened piece of metal, an elbow reflex, ...
defence usual tries to involves pain for the attacker (or disabling) - all of these techniques can be (on a bad day) lethal. regardless of how 'harmless' they sound.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought he might appreciate knowing Tasers can be lethal if he wasn't aware already (he mentioned non-lethal and not knowing about Tasers).</div></div>
well. if it's about defence (like some force amplifiers mentioned above in addition to taser/pepper spay) and being concerned about lethal actions:
- a kick/punch to the throat can be lethal
- accidentally pushing up the nose bone towards the brain can be 'dangerous'
- cutting arteries (by accident and/or in defence) is likely lethal
for the above accidents, you only need will, a sharpened piece of metal, an elbow reflex, ...
defence usual tries to involves pain for the attacker (or disabling) - all of these techniques can be (on a bad day) lethal. regardless of how 'harmless' they sound.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Once again,Thanks for all of the replys.You LE guys have expierence that I do not have,and I appreciate your sharing.
This girl and her family has never been around firearms,hence the non-lethal approach.This may change in the future,as my son just bought her a shotgun,for dove and duck season.She seems to be comfortalble learning to shoot it,so hopefully I can have her shooting rifles and pistols in the future.I had already planned to coach her on situational awareness and maybe a few defense moves.She is very atheletic,so this should not be too difficult.Paying attention and having something in her hand was going to be some of the things that I told her.I really hope this girl ends up in the family,so maybe a CCW and a handgun will be in the future.
Thanks again,and any other ideas or suggestions are welcome. Pete Edit to add that we are not worried about the attackers well being.If the focker dies,well,thats what lawyers are for.But thanks for any legal heads up. Pete
Once again,Thanks for all of the replys.You LE guys have expierence that I do not have,and I appreciate your sharing.
This girl and her family has never been around firearms,hence the non-lethal approach.This may change in the future,as my son just bought her a shotgun,for dove and duck season.She seems to be comfortalble learning to shoot it,so hopefully I can have her shooting rifles and pistols in the future.I had already planned to coach her on situational awareness and maybe a few defense moves.She is very atheletic,so this should not be too difficult.Paying attention and having something in her hand was going to be some of the things that I told her.I really hope this girl ends up in the family,so maybe a CCW and a handgun will be in the future.
Thanks again,and any other ideas or suggestions are welcome. Pete Edit to add that we are not worried about the attackers well being.If the focker dies,well,thats what lawyers are for.But thanks for any legal heads up. Pete
Re: Please school me on Tasers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you have a specific point you wanted to bring to the table with that blurb? </div></div>
Yes I did and apologies if you didn't get the intention.
The OP asked to be schooled as he says that he doesn't know anything on the subject. I thought he might appreciate knowing Tasers can be lethal if he wasn't aware already (he mentioned non-lethal and not knowing about Tasers). If his son's gf wants a Taser because she has different views on catch and releasse, or lives in a state not particularly tolerant to killing attackers then ending up with a dead person might not appeal to her. Not a problem for many and most States but just trying to highlight that while he asks about Tasers and non-lethal in the same post those two aren't mutually inclusive. </div></div>
There is no such thing as "non-lethal" force. If you use force or violence on another human being in a physical altercation, there is a chance they will die. The correct term for baton, OC, Taser, Kubaton/yawara, open hand etc is "less leathal".
Furthermore there was nothing in your first post to indicate that the Taser was a primary or seconday cause of death. Just because someone dies after they were Tased doesn't mean that the Taser was the cause. I've seen a woman that shot herself with a .40, and she had cut her hand on an arrangement of roses moments before. This does not mean that the roses killed her. It is the same with the Taser. If you study a little bit of history on the subject you will noitce a trend. Before the Taser was "killing" people, OC/CS was "killing" people. Before that it was the rear naked choke/LVNR. Generally what happens is people die from "excited delium", drug reactions, health conditions, the stress of the altercation or any combination of the above.
In reference to the Taser in the purse, They make holsters for Tasers just like pistols. I would still recommend a yawara or a monkey fist on the keys just in case though. Both can be effective, but as a secondary option. As Lonewolf said, when you're in a fight your imagination is the limit. Car antenna's, rocks,rebar, keys, pen or pencil, a roll of nickles... anything can be a weapon.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you have a specific point you wanted to bring to the table with that blurb? </div></div>
Yes I did and apologies if you didn't get the intention.
The OP asked to be schooled as he says that he doesn't know anything on the subject. I thought he might appreciate knowing Tasers can be lethal if he wasn't aware already (he mentioned non-lethal and not knowing about Tasers). If his son's gf wants a Taser because she has different views on catch and releasse, or lives in a state not particularly tolerant to killing attackers then ending up with a dead person might not appeal to her. Not a problem for many and most States but just trying to highlight that while he asks about Tasers and non-lethal in the same post those two aren't mutually inclusive. </div></div>
There is no such thing as "non-lethal" force. If you use force or violence on another human being in a physical altercation, there is a chance they will die. The correct term for baton, OC, Taser, Kubaton/yawara, open hand etc is "less leathal".
Furthermore there was nothing in your first post to indicate that the Taser was a primary or seconday cause of death. Just because someone dies after they were Tased doesn't mean that the Taser was the cause. I've seen a woman that shot herself with a .40, and she had cut her hand on an arrangement of roses moments before. This does not mean that the roses killed her. It is the same with the Taser. If you study a little bit of history on the subject you will noitce a trend. Before the Taser was "killing" people, OC/CS was "killing" people. Before that it was the rear naked choke/LVNR. Generally what happens is people die from "excited delium", drug reactions, health conditions, the stress of the altercation or any combination of the above.
In reference to the Taser in the purse, They make holsters for Tasers just like pistols. I would still recommend a yawara or a monkey fist on the keys just in case though. Both can be effective, but as a secondary option. As Lonewolf said, when you're in a fight your imagination is the limit. Car antenna's, rocks,rebar, keys, pen or pencil, a roll of nickles... anything can be a weapon.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
If she is athletic, what are the odd you can get her some hand to hand or weapons training? Something like Krav Maga, or something Filipino like Kali would do her well. They should both work on situational awareness, and they are about eff'ing people up asap. If you can't find someone to work those or she isnt interested, my other suggestion would be Judo and Muay Thai. I love both, and both will serve her well. Judo stresses staying on your feet (good for running away), and hitting the other person with the earth. MT is pretty self explanatory. A good Judo gym will teach her a decent amount of ground work,and show her how to use the standing techniques for defense. They might work a little no-gi, which ends up being similar to Greco-Roman wrestling. Both arts will work on cardio, aggression and confidence. Wolves look for easy prey. If she is situationally aware, and carries herself like she has no problem with wrecking someones business, it will do much to avoid an attack.
If she is athletic, what are the odd you can get her some hand to hand or weapons training? Something like Krav Maga, or something Filipino like Kali would do her well. They should both work on situational awareness, and they are about eff'ing people up asap. If you can't find someone to work those or she isnt interested, my other suggestion would be Judo and Muay Thai. I love both, and both will serve her well. Judo stresses staying on your feet (good for running away), and hitting the other person with the earth. MT is pretty self explanatory. A good Judo gym will teach her a decent amount of ground work,and show her how to use the standing techniques for defense. They might work a little no-gi, which ends up being similar to Greco-Roman wrestling. Both arts will work on cardio, aggression and confidence. Wolves look for easy prey. If she is situationally aware, and carries herself like she has no problem with wrecking someones business, it will do much to avoid an attack.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McLovin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you have a specific point you wanted to bring to the table with that blurb? </div></div>
Yes I did and apologies if you didn't get the intention.
The OP asked to be schooled as he says that he doesn't know anything on the subject. I thought he might appreciate knowing Tasers can be lethal if he wasn't aware already (he mentioned non-lethal and not knowing about Tasers). If his son's gf wants a Taser because she has different views on catch and releasse, or lives in a state not particularly tolerant to killing attackers then ending up with a dead person might not appeal to her. Not a problem for many and most States but just trying to highlight that while he asks about Tasers and non-lethal in the same post those two aren't mutually inclusive. </div></div>
Furthermore there was nothing in your first post to indicate that the Taser was a primary or seconday cause of death. Just because someone dies after they were Tased doesn't mean that the Taser was the cause. </div></div>
Texas Police Chief Williams wrote an interesting book in 2007 "Taser Electronic Control Devies and Sudden In-Custody Death: Separating Evidence from Conjecture"....since 2000 there have been 680+ deaths in the US and Canada who died after they were tasered according to his work and that produced by Arizona reporter Robert Anglen. I can't speak to the quality of their findings but that number is quite remarkable if true.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McLovin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you have a specific point you wanted to bring to the table with that blurb? </div></div>
Yes I did and apologies if you didn't get the intention.
The OP asked to be schooled as he says that he doesn't know anything on the subject. I thought he might appreciate knowing Tasers can be lethal if he wasn't aware already (he mentioned non-lethal and not knowing about Tasers). If his son's gf wants a Taser because she has different views on catch and releasse, or lives in a state not particularly tolerant to killing attackers then ending up with a dead person might not appeal to her. Not a problem for many and most States but just trying to highlight that while he asks about Tasers and non-lethal in the same post those two aren't mutually inclusive. </div></div>
Furthermore there was nothing in your first post to indicate that the Taser was a primary or seconday cause of death. Just because someone dies after they were Tased doesn't mean that the Taser was the cause. </div></div>
Texas Police Chief Williams wrote an interesting book in 2007 "Taser Electronic Control Devies and Sudden In-Custody Death: Separating Evidence from Conjecture"....since 2000 there have been 680+ deaths in the US and Canada who died after they were tasered according to his work and that produced by Arizona reporter Robert Anglen. I can't speak to the quality of their findings but that number is quite remarkable if true.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Texas Police Chief Williams wrote an interesting book in 2007 "Taser Electronic Control Devies and Sudden In-Custody Death: Separating Evidence from Conjecture"....since 2000 there have been 680+ deaths in the US and Canada who died after they were tasered according to his work and that produced by Arizona reporter Robert Anglen. I can't speak to the quality of their findings but that number is quite remarkable if true. </div></div>
I'm no fan of the Taser but I would think the company would be out of business if there were evidence to back up those claims.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Texas Police Chief Williams wrote an interesting book in 2007 "Taser Electronic Control Devies and Sudden In-Custody Death: Separating Evidence from Conjecture"....since 2000 there have been 680+ deaths in the US and Canada who died after they were tasered according to his work and that produced by Arizona reporter Robert Anglen. I can't speak to the quality of their findings but that number is quite remarkable if true. </div></div>
I'm no fan of the Taser but I would think the company would be out of business if there were evidence to back up those claims.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Mc,some form of ma training is a possibility.This all got started because she just moved into a new apartment,from an open parking lot to a gated lot.On Monday morning,leaving out for school,she observed several guys on the parking lot,trying to break into cars.So much for the gated lot!This is a pretty up-scale area,not the hood.
All of you guys expierence and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks again, Pete
Mc,some form of ma training is a possibility.This all got started because she just moved into a new apartment,from an open parking lot to a gated lot.On Monday morning,leaving out for school,she observed several guys on the parking lot,trying to break into cars.So much for the gated lot!This is a pretty up-scale area,not the hood.
All of you guys expierence and suggestions are appreciated. Thanks again, Pete
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Bill,I would really like for this to happen,but its one of those things that a parent can't dictate.I really like this girl!
I may have to do like we do when prairie dog hunting,get a bunch of friends and start cleaning our rifles on the tailgate of our trucks.Not much difference between motel parking lots and apartment parking lots!This seems to be acceptable in Texas,why not in Arkansas? Pete
Bill,I would really like for this to happen,but its one of those things that a parent can't dictate.I really like this girl!
I may have to do like we do when prairie dog hunting,get a bunch of friends and start cleaning our rifles on the tailgate of our trucks.Not much difference between motel parking lots and apartment parking lots!This seems to be acceptable in Texas,why not in Arkansas? Pete
Re: Please school me on Tasers
The taser thing, when they work they are great, but there are way to many variables that could cause one not to work properly, and the civillian model, you only get one shot and it used to be a 15 sec burst. O/C works great as long as the wind dont blow against you and all she has to to do is get it in the area. The Taser was originally desgined as an offensive tool to use against combative or agressive non compliant subjects to reduce both officer and subject / suspect injuries. From what I have read from both LEO articles and news papers articles, those who have died after being Tased had thier Tox Screens read like a back street pharmacy manual and high levels of illicit narcotics in thier systems or multiple narcotics and they died more from a excited delirum. Meaning they were so cranked up on meth or what have you that the added stress of the confrontation and the sudden muscle lockup put more stress on thier heart than they could handle and it ended in death.
The taser thing, when they work they are great, but there are way to many variables that could cause one not to work properly, and the civillian model, you only get one shot and it used to be a 15 sec burst. O/C works great as long as the wind dont blow against you and all she has to to do is get it in the area. The Taser was originally desgined as an offensive tool to use against combative or agressive non compliant subjects to reduce both officer and subject / suspect injuries. From what I have read from both LEO articles and news papers articles, those who have died after being Tased had thier Tox Screens read like a back street pharmacy manual and high levels of illicit narcotics in thier systems or multiple narcotics and they died more from a excited delirum. Meaning they were so cranked up on meth or what have you that the added stress of the confrontation and the sudden muscle lockup put more stress on thier heart than they could handle and it ended in death.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Well guys,I was off today,and hit the nearest police supply store.Ended up buying the sons gf some pepper spray.I had planned to buy the Fox,but finally decided on another brand that was equipped to use on a key chain.Hopefully,this will make it easier for her to have it accessable.Maybe in the future,there can be a little MA training,maybe even a ccw and a handgun.As hunting season gets near,she will be here more,and I plan to get her to the range.But for now,this will do.Thanks to everyone who offered advice, Pete
Well guys,I was off today,and hit the nearest police supply store.Ended up buying the sons gf some pepper spray.I had planned to buy the Fox,but finally decided on another brand that was equipped to use on a key chain.Hopefully,this will make it easier for her to have it accessable.Maybe in the future,there can be a little MA training,maybe even a ccw and a handgun.As hunting season gets near,she will be here more,and I plan to get her to the range.But for now,this will do.Thanks to everyone who offered advice, Pete
Re: Please school me on Tasers
I think the civi taser's give a false sense of security. I carry 2 cartridges on me while I'm at work but I know the chances that I'll get that second one in place and ready to fire again are slim before something else happens. And with civi models, you only have one chance for a good hit.
The fact is, if you're going to tase someone, you're probably going to be a little amped up and there's a good chance you're gonna miss. And you need not just one probe to hit the target, but both, and they have to be either in contact with skin, or pretty darn close to be effective.
For me, that's too many variables to worry about to give a recommendation of a taser to a civilian. At least I know in my job if I miss with the taser, I have other options. Not usually the case with someone not wearing a duty belt.
I say you made the right choice with the pepper spray.
I think the civi taser's give a false sense of security. I carry 2 cartridges on me while I'm at work but I know the chances that I'll get that second one in place and ready to fire again are slim before something else happens. And with civi models, you only have one chance for a good hit.
The fact is, if you're going to tase someone, you're probably going to be a little amped up and there's a good chance you're gonna miss. And you need not just one probe to hit the target, but both, and they have to be either in contact with skin, or pretty darn close to be effective.
For me, that's too many variables to worry about to give a recommendation of a taser to a civilian. At least I know in my job if I miss with the taser, I have other options. Not usually the case with someone not wearing a duty belt.
I say you made the right choice with the pepper spray.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
double post
double post
Re: Please school me on Tasers
Taser does make civilian versions, but I agree with the others that suggest the spray. I have been hit multiple times with both, and while both are effective, the Taser is only temporary. You hit someone square in the face with most any OC spray, and the pain lasts quite a while.
Taser does make civilian versions, but I agree with the others that suggest the spray. I have been hit multiple times with both, and while both are effective, the Taser is only temporary. You hit someone square in the face with most any OC spray, and the pain lasts quite a while.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Texas Police Chief Williams wrote an interesting book in 2007 "Taser Electronic Control Devies and Sudden In-Custody Death: Separating Evidence from Conjecture"....since 2000 there have been 680+ deaths in the US and Canada who died after they were tasered according to his work and that produced by Arizona reporter Robert Anglen. I can't speak to the quality of their findings but that number is quite remarkable if true. </div></div>
I'm no fan of the Taser but I would think the company would be out of business if there were evidence to back up those claims.</div></div>
Statistically speaking, a certain percentage of people are simply going to die after or while resisting arrest. Tasers are the current hot topic, mainly because the average member of the public's entire knowledge of electricity can be summarized as "Don't stick a fork in the power outlet or you'll <span style="font-weight: bold">DIE</span>!" Tasers involve electricity. Ergo, Tasers will kill you. You have now successfully completed Advanced Public Thinking 101, and are fully certified to write as a journalist, or play a news anchor on television.
Consider the following quote from an ACLU scare piece published in the 90s about pepper spray (http://www.aclu-sc.org/attach/p/Pepper_Spray_New_Questions.pdf):
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Few new law enforcement technologies have attracted as much attention, or created as much controversy, as Oleoresin Capsicum, (“pepper spray” or OC”), which was legalized for use by California law enforcement agencies in October, 1992. It was legalized for civilian use in March, 1994.
By May 31, 1995, California police officers and sheriff ’s deputies had used pepper spray nearly 16,000 times—in the last year at an average rate of 24 times a day statewide.
Since 1992, the beginning of a three-year “provisional certification” of pepper spray concerns have mounted about health risks associated with OC, especially fatalities among suspects in custody who had been sprayed. The
provisional certification is scheduled to expire in on Aug. 1, 1995.
In this report, the ACLU of Southern California identifies 26 deaths among people who were pepper-sprayed by police officers in the period Jan. 1, 1993, through June 1, 1995. The fatality total suggests that one person dies after being pepper sprayed for about every 600 times the spray is used by police.</div></div>
Oooooh! Pepper spray: it's like cyanide in a can! Ban it for the safety of the criminals!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Texas Police Chief Williams wrote an interesting book in 2007 "Taser Electronic Control Devies and Sudden In-Custody Death: Separating Evidence from Conjecture"....since 2000 there have been 680+ deaths in the US and Canada who died after they were tasered according to his work and that produced by Arizona reporter Robert Anglen. I can't speak to the quality of their findings but that number is quite remarkable if true. </div></div>
I'm no fan of the Taser but I would think the company would be out of business if there were evidence to back up those claims.</div></div>
Statistically speaking, a certain percentage of people are simply going to die after or while resisting arrest. Tasers are the current hot topic, mainly because the average member of the public's entire knowledge of electricity can be summarized as "Don't stick a fork in the power outlet or you'll <span style="font-weight: bold">DIE</span>!" Tasers involve electricity. Ergo, Tasers will kill you. You have now successfully completed Advanced Public Thinking 101, and are fully certified to write as a journalist, or play a news anchor on television.
Consider the following quote from an ACLU scare piece published in the 90s about pepper spray (http://www.aclu-sc.org/attach/p/Pepper_Spray_New_Questions.pdf):
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Few new law enforcement technologies have attracted as much attention, or created as much controversy, as Oleoresin Capsicum, (“pepper spray” or OC”), which was legalized for use by California law enforcement agencies in October, 1992. It was legalized for civilian use in March, 1994.
By May 31, 1995, California police officers and sheriff ’s deputies had used pepper spray nearly 16,000 times—in the last year at an average rate of 24 times a day statewide.
Since 1992, the beginning of a three-year “provisional certification” of pepper spray concerns have mounted about health risks associated with OC, especially fatalities among suspects in custody who had been sprayed. The
provisional certification is scheduled to expire in on Aug. 1, 1995.
In this report, the ACLU of Southern California identifies 26 deaths among people who were pepper-sprayed by police officers in the period Jan. 1, 1993, through June 1, 1995. The fatality total suggests that one person dies after being pepper sprayed for about every 600 times the spray is used by police.</div></div>
Oooooh! Pepper spray: it's like cyanide in a can! Ban it for the safety of the criminals!
Re: Please school me on Tasers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillPrudden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sir -
Since you are soliciting opinions, I'll share mine. I cannot imagine a situation in which a woman, alone, is attacked by someone who took a moment to select the time, place, and manner of the attack, and she is able to deploy anything from her purse. He is a professional attacker of women, he knows the only real threat to him from 99% of women is her getting several moments to fetch something from her purse. He will deny her this opportunity.
However, most women either already walk with their keys in their hands or can be retrained to do so rather easily. On her key chain can be a 4" piece of 1/4" steel rod or a small folding knife, which she can be trained to use as force-multipliers within defensive techniques. Limit the damage done in the intiial attack, counter-strike, flee...
I'd propose a simple exercise: Get an Airsoft gun to replicate the Taser and a small can of spray whatever the replicate the pepper spray. Arm her up. Attack your son's girlfriend at significant, not full, but purposeful, speed and intensity. Drag her into the bushes. Throw her into the back seat of her own car. Blitz her through her own front door as she tries to unlock it. The entire United States Marine Corps could be in that purse, it is of no value...
Bill
PS - I forgot, we also have to assume he has friends, further mooting the efficacy of the Taser or spray.</div></div>
Hell, while we're at it, why not just go ahead and assume that it's a full-blown Mossad hit squad out to get her, too?
There is no level of preparation conceivable that can grant you immunity and protection from every potential threat out there. You make a compromise based upon the circumstances and the resources reasonably available to you at the time. Carrying a SAW around on your back won't be enough if someone's really out to get you. Being prepared with a .380 carried in a pocket is still better than nothing, though. The odds of being professionally ambushed by a competent and overwhelming adversary are far less than that of being accosted by someone who might have otherwise been detected and momentarily anticipated by an alert individual.
Put bluntly, don't bother worrying about scenarios that you can't change. The only guarantee any of us have is that we're all going to die sooner or later. Do the best you can to deal with the risks that you <span style="font-style: italic">can</span> reasonably handle, and accept the remote and unsolvable risks that come part and parcel with daily existence.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BillPrudden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sir -
Since you are soliciting opinions, I'll share mine. I cannot imagine a situation in which a woman, alone, is attacked by someone who took a moment to select the time, place, and manner of the attack, and she is able to deploy anything from her purse. He is a professional attacker of women, he knows the only real threat to him from 99% of women is her getting several moments to fetch something from her purse. He will deny her this opportunity.
However, most women either already walk with their keys in their hands or can be retrained to do so rather easily. On her key chain can be a 4" piece of 1/4" steel rod or a small folding knife, which she can be trained to use as force-multipliers within defensive techniques. Limit the damage done in the intiial attack, counter-strike, flee...
I'd propose a simple exercise: Get an Airsoft gun to replicate the Taser and a small can of spray whatever the replicate the pepper spray. Arm her up. Attack your son's girlfriend at significant, not full, but purposeful, speed and intensity. Drag her into the bushes. Throw her into the back seat of her own car. Blitz her through her own front door as she tries to unlock it. The entire United States Marine Corps could be in that purse, it is of no value...
Bill
PS - I forgot, we also have to assume he has friends, further mooting the efficacy of the Taser or spray.</div></div>
Hell, while we're at it, why not just go ahead and assume that it's a full-blown Mossad hit squad out to get her, too?
There is no level of preparation conceivable that can grant you immunity and protection from every potential threat out there. You make a compromise based upon the circumstances and the resources reasonably available to you at the time. Carrying a SAW around on your back won't be enough if someone's really out to get you. Being prepared with a .380 carried in a pocket is still better than nothing, though. The odds of being professionally ambushed by a competent and overwhelming adversary are far less than that of being accosted by someone who might have otherwise been detected and momentarily anticipated by an alert individual.
Put bluntly, don't bother worrying about scenarios that you can't change. The only guarantee any of us have is that we're all going to die sooner or later. Do the best you can to deal with the risks that you <span style="font-style: italic">can</span> reasonably handle, and accept the remote and unsolvable risks that come part and parcel with daily existence.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
It is absolutely true that sometimes, sh*t happens, and can happen to anyone, anytime. With all the tools and techniques that may or may not aid someone in defending themselves, I believe that, by far, the MOST important factor, is their will to win/survive. If someone is a fighter, they may go down, but the likely hood of them surviving is much better than someone who is willing to simply accept that they are a victim from the start.
It is absolutely true that sometimes, sh*t happens, and can happen to anyone, anytime. With all the tools and techniques that may or may not aid someone in defending themselves, I believe that, by far, the MOST important factor, is their will to win/survive. If someone is a fighter, they may go down, but the likely hood of them surviving is much better than someone who is willing to simply accept that they are a victim from the start.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
I sell Tasers.
There are a lot of good points and a lot of bull in this thread, easy enough to discern. I have two points to add:
1. I feel that Tasers are a much better choice than chemical agents, (stand-off distance, wind, reliability, light/laser pointer, intimidation factor, time to effects, runny eyes vs muscular failure, etc). If you're deciding between the two, price/local laws should be the only thing holding you back from the Taser.
2. I would recommend the offensive models over the defensive one, and the difference between the two sets is almost as huge as the difference between a Taser and a joke of a defense like chemical sprays.
The C2 (defensive unit that looks like a TV remote), is the cheapest one, ($337), and has the 30 second minimum charge. The X26/X26C which everyone mentions is over $900, which has a offensive 5 second charge. There is a third model, and it baffles me that people don't mention it as much, probably because its the old one, the M26 line, and doesn't look as cool as the newer models. The M26 series is priced SLIGHTLY above the civilian one ($424), but has the 5 second offensive timing.
Tasers idea with the civilian C series is that you shoot the guy, it shocks for 30 seconds, and you run like hell, and Taser will send you a brand new unit later for free. That's great if you have just one attacker and the first shot lands. It's practically WORTHLESS if your significant other runs into multiple targets or misses and hits something else which connects the circuit. Because then her weapon is now unavailable for 30 seconds + reload/cartridge release time.
Everyone touts the Tasers ability to be used as a standard "dry stun" stun gun, in addition to the 15 ft range cartridges. The problem is, you can't safely disengage the live cartridge to target the 2nd/3rd/4th bad guy while you're waiting for the first 30 seconds to run out. It's actually kinda funny to watch people accidently tase their fingers during demos.
So, you either need to wait until Taser's new 3-round magazine model comes out, OR, get the police "offensive" style models with a 5-second charge, so your girl can shoot the first guy and not be vulnerable for the next 30 seconds, in case the street trash brought friends.
Now, some people may say that the 30-second tase is better, and I completely disagree. If you want, you can pull the trigger multiple times on the offensive models and ADD time to a target, but the C2 can't pick a shorter time. And 5 seconds is WELL more than enough to cripple an attacker, those who call BS on that claim have never been tased. During the tase, it is extremely painful, and you have the sensation of not being able to breath. Although recovery is rapid and almost always complete, the attacker will have collapsed on the floor and will not full regain control of their motor skills for more than 30 seconds afterwards.
I sell Tasers.
There are a lot of good points and a lot of bull in this thread, easy enough to discern. I have two points to add:
1. I feel that Tasers are a much better choice than chemical agents, (stand-off distance, wind, reliability, light/laser pointer, intimidation factor, time to effects, runny eyes vs muscular failure, etc). If you're deciding between the two, price/local laws should be the only thing holding you back from the Taser.
2. I would recommend the offensive models over the defensive one, and the difference between the two sets is almost as huge as the difference between a Taser and a joke of a defense like chemical sprays.
The C2 (defensive unit that looks like a TV remote), is the cheapest one, ($337), and has the 30 second minimum charge. The X26/X26C which everyone mentions is over $900, which has a offensive 5 second charge. There is a third model, and it baffles me that people don't mention it as much, probably because its the old one, the M26 line, and doesn't look as cool as the newer models. The M26 series is priced SLIGHTLY above the civilian one ($424), but has the 5 second offensive timing.
Tasers idea with the civilian C series is that you shoot the guy, it shocks for 30 seconds, and you run like hell, and Taser will send you a brand new unit later for free. That's great if you have just one attacker and the first shot lands. It's practically WORTHLESS if your significant other runs into multiple targets or misses and hits something else which connects the circuit. Because then her weapon is now unavailable for 30 seconds + reload/cartridge release time.
Everyone touts the Tasers ability to be used as a standard "dry stun" stun gun, in addition to the 15 ft range cartridges. The problem is, you can't safely disengage the live cartridge to target the 2nd/3rd/4th bad guy while you're waiting for the first 30 seconds to run out. It's actually kinda funny to watch people accidently tase their fingers during demos.
So, you either need to wait until Taser's new 3-round magazine model comes out, OR, get the police "offensive" style models with a 5-second charge, so your girl can shoot the first guy and not be vulnerable for the next 30 seconds, in case the street trash brought friends.
Now, some people may say that the 30-second tase is better, and I completely disagree. If you want, you can pull the trigger multiple times on the offensive models and ADD time to a target, but the C2 can't pick a shorter time. And 5 seconds is WELL more than enough to cripple an attacker, those who call BS on that claim have never been tased. During the tase, it is extremely painful, and you have the sensation of not being able to breath. Although recovery is rapid and almost always complete, the attacker will have collapsed on the floor and will not full regain control of their motor skills for more than 30 seconds afterwards.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I sell Tasers.
There are a lot of good points and a lot of bull in this thread, easy enough to discern. I have two points to add:
1. I feel that Tasers are a much better choice than chemical agents, (stand-off distance, wind, reliability, light/laser pointer, intimidation factor, time to effects, runny eyes vs muscular failure, etc). If you're deciding between the two, price/local laws should be the only thing holding you back from the Taser.
2. I would recommend the offensive models over the defensive one, and the difference between the two sets is almost as huge as the difference between a Taser and a joke of a defense like chemical sprays.
The C2 (defensive unit that looks like a TV remote), is the cheapest one, ($337), and has the 30 second minimum charge. The X26/X26C which everyone mentions is over $900, which has a offensive 5 second charge. There is a third model, and it baffles me that people don't mention it as much, probably because its the old one, the M26 line, and doesn't look as cool as the newer models. The M26 series is priced SLIGHTLY above the civilian one ($424), but has the 5 second offensive timing.
Tasers idea with the civilian C series is that you shoot the guy, it shocks for 30 seconds, and you run like hell, and Taser will send you a brand new unit later for free. That's great if you have just one attacker and the first shot lands. It's practically WORTHLESS if your significant other runs into multiple targets or misses and hits something else which connects the circuit. Because then her weapon is now unavailable for 30 seconds + reload/cartridge release time.
Everyone touts the Tasers ability to be used as a standard "dry stun" stun gun, in addition to the 15 ft range cartridges. The problem is, you can't safely disengage the live cartridge to target the 2nd/3rd/4th bad guy while you're waiting for the first 30 seconds to run out. It's actually kinda funny to watch people accidently tase their fingers during demos.
So, you either need to wait until Taser's new 3-round magazine model comes out, OR, get the police "offensive" style models with a 5-second charge, so your girl can shoot the first guy and not be vulnerable for the next 30 seconds, in case the street trash brought friends.
Now, some people may say that the 30-second tase is better, and I completely disagree. If you want, you can pull the trigger multiple times on the offensive models and ADD time to a target, but the C2 can't pick a shorter time. And 5 seconds is WELL more than enough to cripple an attacker, those who call BS on that claim have never been tased. During the tase, it is extremely painful, and you have the sensation of not being able to breath. Although recovery is rapid and almost always complete, the attacker will have collapsed on the floor and will not full regain control of their motor skills for more than 30 seconds afterwards.
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All of these points are valid. The feeling of being hit with a Taser is TERRIBLE! Much worse than that of OC. However, the effects of being hit with OC last much longer than the Taser. It takes only seconds to recover from a Taser hit, but without decontamination, the attacker can't even open their eyes for at least 30 min or longer after a direct hit with OC.
My ONLY reason for recommending OC, is in the case that the person being attacked wants to flee, not fight. I think the OC just gives them more time to gain distance from their attacker.
Both tools can be very effective, but the individual has to prepare themselves mentally before being put into this situation to really reap any benefit, regardless of which one they decide to use.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I sell Tasers.
There are a lot of good points and a lot of bull in this thread, easy enough to discern. I have two points to add:
1. I feel that Tasers are a much better choice than chemical agents, (stand-off distance, wind, reliability, light/laser pointer, intimidation factor, time to effects, runny eyes vs muscular failure, etc). If you're deciding between the two, price/local laws should be the only thing holding you back from the Taser.
2. I would recommend the offensive models over the defensive one, and the difference between the two sets is almost as huge as the difference between a Taser and a joke of a defense like chemical sprays.
The C2 (defensive unit that looks like a TV remote), is the cheapest one, ($337), and has the 30 second minimum charge. The X26/X26C which everyone mentions is over $900, which has a offensive 5 second charge. There is a third model, and it baffles me that people don't mention it as much, probably because its the old one, the M26 line, and doesn't look as cool as the newer models. The M26 series is priced SLIGHTLY above the civilian one ($424), but has the 5 second offensive timing.
Tasers idea with the civilian C series is that you shoot the guy, it shocks for 30 seconds, and you run like hell, and Taser will send you a brand new unit later for free. That's great if you have just one attacker and the first shot lands. It's practically WORTHLESS if your significant other runs into multiple targets or misses and hits something else which connects the circuit. Because then her weapon is now unavailable for 30 seconds + reload/cartridge release time.
Everyone touts the Tasers ability to be used as a standard "dry stun" stun gun, in addition to the 15 ft range cartridges. The problem is, you can't safely disengage the live cartridge to target the 2nd/3rd/4th bad guy while you're waiting for the first 30 seconds to run out. It's actually kinda funny to watch people accidently tase their fingers during demos.
So, you either need to wait until Taser's new 3-round magazine model comes out, OR, get the police "offensive" style models with a 5-second charge, so your girl can shoot the first guy and not be vulnerable for the next 30 seconds, in case the street trash brought friends.
Now, some people may say that the 30-second tase is better, and I completely disagree. If you want, you can pull the trigger multiple times on the offensive models and ADD time to a target, but the C2 can't pick a shorter time. And 5 seconds is WELL more than enough to cripple an attacker, those who call BS on that claim have never been tased. During the tase, it is extremely painful, and you have the sensation of not being able to breath. Although recovery is rapid and almost always complete, the attacker will have collapsed on the floor and will not full regain control of their motor skills for more than 30 seconds afterwards.
</div></div>
All of these points are valid. The feeling of being hit with a Taser is TERRIBLE! Much worse than that of OC. However, the effects of being hit with OC last much longer than the Taser. It takes only seconds to recover from a Taser hit, but without decontamination, the attacker can't even open their eyes for at least 30 min or longer after a direct hit with OC.
My ONLY reason for recommending OC, is in the case that the person being attacked wants to flee, not fight. I think the OC just gives them more time to gain distance from their attacker.
Both tools can be very effective, but the individual has to prepare themselves mentally before being put into this situation to really reap any benefit, regardless of which one they decide to use.
Re: Please school me on Tasers
A lot of good points all around. My experience (15 years of LE, Mil and Security), I have witnessed OC fail more times than it has worked. I have only been working with a Taser for about 6 years and I have been involved in dozens of incidents where it has been used with only one true failure. I also know of scores of other successful deployments and only a handful of failures. Most of those failures have been operator error.
A lot of good points all around. My experience (15 years of LE, Mil and Security), I have witnessed OC fail more times than it has worked. I have only been working with a Taser for about 6 years and I have been involved in dozens of incidents where it has been used with only one true failure. I also know of scores of other successful deployments and only a handful of failures. Most of those failures have been operator error.
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