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POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

S

Scottyman

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 24, 2008
139
30
Maine
I'm going back and forth between getting a semi custom 308 bolt action and a pof upper. Soooo confused
smile.gif

How reliable is the pof piston system? Accurate barrel ect?
I currently have a 6.8 with an Adams Arms piston system and would like some diversity and a round that is a little more economical. Also thinking I may not have another chance to buy such a scary dangerous weapon ;P considering this administrations ideology.
The upper I'm considering is the 14.5" 223 w/NP3 finish.
P-415-14-MRR-9SX-223
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

their customer service blows. when I had my upper it was gawd awful heavy with that predator rail on it. been using LWRC...very kick ass!
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

This isn't encouraging. One reply and it's negative.
LWRC looks good, but just slightly out of my price range for an upper.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

Scotty I own the P-308 and am very well satisfied. Have shot the 415 at RO and they operated flawlessly. I wouldn't have any reservations about POF if I were you.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

I have 4 complete POF's and a additional upper.

I have a 16 inch .223, a 9.25 inch .223, a 12 inch .308, a 20 inch .308 and a .20 inch 6.5 Creedmoor.

I shoot more then the average guy and I have not had any weapons issues issues at all with any of them, and the accuracy has been very good as well.


I have been to the factory twice and have seen the weapons being built and they have the best equipment and manufacturing process of all the companies that I have ever built.

The POF does weigh slightly more then your conventional gas gun but you are also comparing apples and oranges. When you get a POF you are setup to add anything you could ever want or need to it without having to buy any rails and stuff.

POF is also the originator and patent holder of the piston driven system everyone else is so to speak "on the band wagon".

I highly recommend the POF!!
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

I have a POF 16" .223 upper and a complete 20" .308 rifle.

Haven't had any reliability problems. The piston is great for shooting suppressed.

Great guns. Sub .75" for 5 shots at 100. Shot a groundhog at 357 with the .308. When the wind isn't too bad, I can ring a 12x12 plate at 730 all day long with the .223 and 60 vmaxs.

-dan
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

I have a POF 415 p12x upper. I have about 3k rounds through it, with about 1k of that being cheap wolf ammo. I have had zero malfunctions. I love it!
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

How easy is disassembling and cleaning the piston?
It looks very similar to the Barret design minus the spring.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

Simply push in and twist of the end piece dump it out and the piston and rod comes out. Clean up and drop back in and twist!!

So easy even a cave man can do it!!
smile.gif


My 16 inch i have went long periods without cleaning it just to see if i could get it to mess up and still havent!!

You wont be disappointed in POF.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

Have you ever had any of the rod and piston parts stick together after a day of shooting?
My AA system requires brute force to separate the rod from the piston sleeve if I wait a few hours to clean it after a day of shooting.
The whole rod assembly comes out in 1 piece, but for some reason these two parts stick to each other. As suggested, I don't lube these parts.
Usually I clean the gun after every outing. I wonder if I tried shooting w/o cleaning it first if I'd experience a failure of some sort 'cause of the stuck parts.??
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottyman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Have you ever had any of the rod and piston parts stick together after a day of shooting?
My AA system requires brute force to separate the rod from the piston sleeve if I wait a few hours to clean it after a day of shooting.
The whole rod assembly comes out in 1 piece, but for some reason these two parts stick to each other. As suggested, I don't lube these parts.
Usually I clean the gun after every outing. I wonder if I tried shooting w/o cleaning it first if I'd experience a failure of some sort 'cause of the stuck parts.?? </div></div>

I haven't had anything stick together on mine.

-dan
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

I can't speak directly to the 5.56 POF rifles, but my P-308 has been a tank. 100% flawless function/reliability with a variety of ammo, excellent accuracy (3/4MOA and better with good ammo...still working on finding a perfect load for this one), easy to clean up (both after suppressed and standard shooting). It is a little heavier than my comparably equipped AR-10, but not by that much and certainly not to the point of being tough to haul around.

As for customer service...I can tell you that my experiences have been much different than 300WSM. I have had my rifle long enough now that it didn't come originally equipped with a roller cam pin. I ordered one to replace the standard pin in mine after around 1k rounds. When it arrived, I couldn't for the life of me get it installed. After careful inspection of the part and consultation with POF via e-mail and phone about the issue, I was informed that there was a problem with some of the first batch not being properly chamfered around the bottom edge to allow them to fully seat in some bolt carriers. POF had a replacement to me in a matter of a few short days (from across the country) and followed up with me afterward to ensure everything was 100% with the new part. I couldn't have been more pleased with the attention to my concern and the resolution of my issues (however minor they may have been).

I have no problems recommending POF to anyone!!! They are first-rate!!!
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

I have a POF 416 with 16" barrel..... Reliability is excellent, cleaning of the piston system is a breeze. Operating temperature of the bolt, receiver, handgrip and any heat coming off the rifle is non existant.....As in not there. The only thing that gets hot is the business end of it....the barrel.... Heat and lack of crap in the bolt is WELL WORTH IT!!! Get a POF and don't look back..... I'm not saying they are the only ones to go with but they have the most experience with the AR version gas piston and they build a great weapon. Other companies are having to play catch up.......And some are building some nice ones.. But POF I believe is one fine weapon.
SmokeRolls
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

My POF was the most accurate AR I've owned. It was an older P-415 and POF even hooked me up with the newer version piston parts... And a spare set for FREE!!! I believe they use Rock barrels. I Highly Recommend POF.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

I have a POF 308 16.5" bbl and POF 415 16" bbl. The 308 had to go back twice to get fixed. However, turn around time was quick. The 5.56 has had no problems whatsoever. I would recommend POF products.

Jamie
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

I've seen too many POF's become POS's to want one. I'd look elsewhere...
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen too many POF's become POS's to want one. I'd look elsewhere... </div></div>

Don't you just love this kind of idiotic, uneducated remark?

Move along troll...
 
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Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen too many POF's become POS's to want one. I'd look elsewhere... </div></div>

Don't you just love this kind of idiotic, uneducated remark?

Move along troll... </div></div>

Your right, I'm a troll. I train nearly every weekend, from Magpul to EAG. Sorry, the truth is POF's don't hold up. Now, who's comment was uneducated? Sorry, the OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I'm getting into the long range gear now but I've been an AR shooter for years.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen too many POF's become POS's to want one. I'd look elsewhere... </div></div>

Don't you just love this kind of idiotic, uneducated remark?

Move along troll... </div></div>

Your right, I'm a troll. I train nearly every weekend, from Magpul to EAG. Sorry, the truth is POF's don't hold up. Now, who's comment was uneducated? Sorry, the OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I'm getting into the long range gear now but I've been an AR shooter for years. </div></div>

Don't you think I saw the "trijicon.com" under your name? Well, I did. I have a somewhat bizarre sense of humor. And I'm generally considered kind of an Asshole. I almost called you "Trijicon Troll" which would probably have been more of a clue. Anyway, the point of the post was that it didn't appear that you actually owned a POF... Just had seen them... And seen them fail. That's a very troll-like comment. I've seen many reputable firearms fail too. Doesn't mean they're generally unreliable. I've been shooting AR style rifles since 1981. I can honestly tell you that all things considered, POF makes one of the best built, reliable AR's I have ever seen. (and owned).

Take my "troll" comment with a grain of salt. As it appears you have. I apologize for that.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen too many POF's become POS's to want one. I'd look elsewhere... </div></div>

Don't you just love this kind of idiotic, uneducated remark?

Move along troll... </div></div>

Your right, I'm a troll. I train nearly every weekend, from Magpul to EAG. Sorry, the truth is POF's don't hold up. Now, who's comment was uneducated? Sorry, the OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I'm getting into the long range gear now but I've been an AR shooter for years. </div></div>
Just a polite question.
Since you Poo Poo POF.
What is the AR you own and operate? (Not one you dream to own) ,....The one you own and shoot and revere above all others.
We would like to have your opinion..............SmokeRolls
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

Ok. I'm convinced. I'll order the POF when I get the funds.
I just have to stop looking at bolt action rifles to save some money.
smile.gif

Thanks for all the advice.

Forgot to add. What is the twist rate for the 223 barrels? Strange POF doesn't list that info.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

get a POF

you wont be dissapointed!

They are the only semi autos in my gun safe! And for good reason. I have tested and owned just about every other name brand and no name garage guns in the AR business and I can say that they are as good as any other top end gun maker out there!
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

How'd I miss that! 1:8 it is.

I read the 5R polygonal barrels are noted for less bullet deformation. True?

Thanks again.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

Listen,
I stayed out of who has the best......... and should i buy a pof.........
its because I work there, one thing that I have always said, the people here(members) should always buy from the advertising companies, the ones who donate thousands of dollars for our shooting sports. The vendors here are some of the best in the world. Look at GA precision, Seekins, Terry Cross, Manners Stocks, Rock Creek, US Optics, etc.....

Besides that, I'm a pretty regular member here and have helped numerous folks with their POF rifles/uppers if there was a problem, its about customer service.

Good luck with whatever you decide, but if you need some specifics answered, call POF and dial ext 12 and chat me up.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Listen,
I stayed out of who has the best......... and should i buy a pof.........
its because I work there, one thing that I have always said, the people here(members) should always buy from the advertising companies, the ones who donate thousands of dollars for our shooting sports. The vendors here are some of the best in the world. Look at GA precision, Seekins, Terry Cross, Manners Stocks, Rock Creek, US Optics, etc.....

Besides that, I'm a pretty regular member here and have helped numerous folks with their POF rifles/uppers if there was a problem, its about customer service.

Good luck with whatever you decide, but if you need some specifics answered, call POF and dial ext 12 and chat me up.</div></div>
Thats what I like about this site...... Thanks Scott (I'm assuming thats your name.) But whats the "milk9" meen?
SmokeRolls
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen too many POF's become POS's to want one. I'd look elsewhere... </div></div>

Don't you just love this kind of idiotic, uneducated remark?

Move along troll... </div></div>

Your right, I'm a troll. I train nearly every weekend, from Magpul to EAG. Sorry, the truth is POF's don't hold up. Now, who's comment was uneducated? Sorry, the OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I'm getting into the long range gear now but I've been an AR shooter for years. </div></div>
Just a polite question.
Since you Poo Poo POF.
What is the AR you own and operate? (Not one you dream to own) ,....The one you own and shoot and revere above all others.
We would like to have your opinion..............SmokeRolls </div></div>

Look, POF might be fine for shooting off the bench. If that is what you are looking to do you should be fine. I gave my honest assessment of those I have used and seen run in class. Not all of them break, some run fine. On average, they are the least reliable piston AR I have had the experience of witnessing. Believe me or don't, doesn't matter to me.

I run Colt, BCM and Sabre Defence carbines. My experience is based off carbine classes and shoots, for a bench gun POF may be fine. I find it funny that since I don't agree with the POF fan boys in this thread I am attacked for it. That tells me a lot...sorry I disagree with you.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

Sorry you feel attacked but to put blanket statments about "seeing too many" and "bench guns" does actually seem to more of a generalization. Maybe if you put a number to it it would seem more genuine and factual. Unfortunately people tend to put their personal interests in front of actual data.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

bglimpse,

Just so you know, I personally don't doubt your experience with this type of rifle. I'd be curious to know what exactly "broke" on the POF's you've seen break?... and what other piston AR's perform better? (Please don't say HK. They're just ridiculously priced and next to impossible to get) The reason I ask is because I did a pretty extensive personal study on piston AR's and found that POF, to me, had the "beefiest" and most reliable piston system of the ones I looked at.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

Hello,
I can only suggest 2 things, 1 make sure it is a 5.56 and not a 223 and 2 make sure it has a 1:7 twist. From my understanding the 5.56 can shoot both the 223 & 5.56 not the other way around and the twist rate will be more accurate and you will have the ability to shoot a heavier bullet weight accurately...
I have heard good things about the piston system but I doubt if I will ever get 1 because of the added weight, yes it keeps the rifle cleaner but I am not in a combat situation so I can take my time cleaning my rifle...

When I am able to I will be getting a <span style="text-decoration: line-through">LWRC</span> LMT upper......

So what bolt action are you thinking about getting?? I do a good amount of distance shooting and love it, one reason is I shoot less LOL, If I may suggest make sure the rifle is a 26" bull barrel, has a decent trigger and stock, if it is not bedded then do so, you can find some really good deals on gunbroker for a good rifle....

Well good luck on your decision.....
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

so why a 1:7 twist? so you can only shoot heavier bullets. Most people who buy carbines/guns/rifles run the cheapest ammo through them they can. In my opinion thats why 1:8 twist is the better choice. I shoot matches with 77gr bullets and get very good groupings and if i just want to shoot a local 3 gun match i have no problem burning up 55gr junk ammo on CQB type stages.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308saiga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello,
I can only suggest 2 things, 1 make sure it is a 5.56 and not a 223 and 2 make sure it has a 1:7 twist. From my understanding the 5.56 can shoot both the 223 & 5.56 not the other way around and the twist rate will be more accurate and you will have the ability to shoot a heavier bullet weight accurately...
I have heard good things about the piston system but I doubt if I will ever get 1 because of the added weight, yes it keeps the rifle cleaner but I am not in a combat situation so I can take my time cleaning my rifle...

When I am able to I will be getting a LWRC upper......

So what bolt action are you thinking about getting?? I do a good amount of distance shooting and love it, one reason is I shoot less LOL, If I may suggest make sure the rifle is a 26" bull barrel, has a decent trigger and stock, if it is not bedded then do so, you can find some really good deals on gunbroker for a good rifle....

Well good luck on your decision.....
</div></div>
Also check out the .223 wylde chamber, better than 5.56 and .223
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

bglimpse

You are allowed to have a opinion and also pass on the info you have. You will learn real quick blanket statements without some good follow up facts will lead to people questioning your comments.

Also you are assuming that the people that are happy with their POF's are bench shooters?

I run my none stop at almost every major 3 - gun match out there and shoot none stop through out the week and use it on the range multiple times a week.

I will also say that I probably shoot more ammo in a week then everyone in this thread combined does and i have had 000000000 "Zero malfunctions and or issues" Maybe I have got the magic rifle.

As for piston systems POF does make the strongest and most relieable piston gun on the market hands down. They own the rights, patents, and lead the charge in the piston driven weapons platforms. Every company out there has now follwed POF's lead into the piston system now. All these same companies in the begining were the ones laughing saying it doesnt work or it wouldnt work and laughed. But ist funny how they all have now turned a 180 and are all on board making piston systems!!
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so why a 1:7 twist? so you can only shoot heavier bullets. <span style="font-weight: bold">Most people who buy carbines/guns/rifles run the cheapest ammo through them they can</span>. In my opinion thats why 1:8 twist is the better choice. I shoot matches with 77gr bullets and get very good groupings and if i just want to shoot a local 3 gun match i have no problem burning up 55gr junk ammo on CQB type stages.

</div></div>

I maybe misunderstanding your question, if so sorry, I did not think we where talking about just any weapon, but specifically the POF with a piston system, I stated a 1:7 because you can shoot any grain bullet with more accuracy (as long as it fits in the mag)...

I have a RRA Wylde Chamber 20" in a 1:8 and get a +- 1" group using 75gr at 200 yards (scoped with my old eyes). I am still testing out different bullet weights and powders to see if I can get an increase in accuracy...
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bglimpse,

Just so you know, I personally don't doubt your experience with this type of rifle. I'd be curious to know what exactly "broke" on the POF's you've seen break?... and what other piston AR's perform better? (Please don't say HK. They're just ridiculously priced and next to impossible to get) The reason I ask is because I did a pretty extensive personal study on piston AR's and found that POF, to me, had the "beefiest" and most reliable piston system of the ones I looked at. </div></div>

I agree with you 100% on the HK, they are overrated. In my experience, LMT, PWS and LWRC make the most reliable piston guns. Most of the POF issues I have seen have been extraction related, the piston system seems ok. Just watched one go down the last week of March at a Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute class I was attending. Maybe these were all flukes and I just happened to be there.

Again, this is my personal experience. I've owned or ran nearly every piston and DI AR available. Currently I'm running a PWS to see how it performs. I have yet to see an issue with a LMT or LWRC piston gun on the range. I'm an industry professional, I don't knock other fireams companies for fun. I give my honest opinion based on many rounds downrange.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bglimpse,

Just so you know, I personally don't doubt your experience with this type of rifle. I'd be curious to know what exactly "broke" on the POF's you've seen break?... and what other piston AR's perform better? (Please don't say HK. They're just ridiculously priced and next to impossible to get) The reason I ask is because I did a pretty extensive personal study on piston AR's and found that POF, to me, had the "beefiest" and most reliable piston system of the ones I looked at. </div></div>

I agree with you 100% on the HK, they are overrated. In my experience, LMT, PWS and LWRC make the most reliable piston guns. <span style="color: #FF0000">Most of the POF issues I have seen have been extraction related, the piston system seems ok</span>. Just watched one go down the last week of March at a Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute class I was attending. Maybe these were all flukes and I just happened to be there.

Again, this is my personal experience. I've owned or ran nearly every piston and DI AR available. Currently I'm running a PWS to see how it performs. I have yet to see an issue with a LMT or LWRC piston gun on the range. I'm an industry professional, I don't knock other fireams companies for fun. I give my honest opinion based on many rounds downrange. </div></div>

No offense, but that's about as clear as mud. Extraction issues can happen to ANY AR... at ANY time. The fact that you witnessed it on POF's is purely coincidence... And I'd think you would know that.
However, I can respect letting us know what you've seen.

Cheers,
John
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bglimpse,

Just so you know, I personally don't doubt your experience with this type of rifle. I'd be curious to know what exactly "broke" on the POF's you've seen break?... and what other piston AR's perform better? (Please don't say HK. They're just ridiculously priced and next to impossible to get) The reason I ask is because I did a pretty extensive personal study on piston AR's and found that POF, to me, had the "beefiest" and most reliable piston system of the ones I looked at. </div></div>

I agree with you 100% on the HK, they are overrated. In my experience, LMT, PWS and LWRC make the most reliable piston guns. <span style="color: #FF0000">Most of the POF issues I have seen have been extraction related, the piston system seems ok</span>. Just watched one go down the last week of March at a Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute class I was attending. Maybe these were all flukes and I just happened to be there.

Again, this is my personal experience. I've owned or ran nearly every piston and DI AR available. Currently I'm running a PWS to see how it performs. I have yet to see an issue with a LMT or LWRC piston gun on the range. I'm an industry professional, I don't knock other fireams companies for fun. I give my honest opinion based on many rounds downrange. </div></div>

No offense, but that's about as clear as mud. Extraction issues can happen to ANY AR... at ANY time. The fact that you witnessed it on POF's is purely coincidence... And I'd think you would know that.
However, I can respect letting us know what you've seen.

Cheers,
John </div></div>

I guess I am missing something. I've seen an unusual amount of POF guns that don't run yet that is clear as mud? Yes, it can happen to any gun. I guess as long as the problems are not related to the piston the gun is good to go huh? If it was one POF on one given day, that might be coincidence. It wasn't and it isn't. I'm out as there is obviously is nothing wrong with the POF design and they are the best AR's ever made. I guess I forget where I am at. There is a difference between using the AR for training and protection and using an AR to shoot holes in paper where if they fail to run it isn't a big deal.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bglimpse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bglimpse,

Just so you know, I personally don't doubt your experience with this type of rifle. I'd be curious to know what exactly "broke" on the POF's you've seen break?... and what other piston AR's perform better? (Please don't say HK. They're just ridiculously priced and next to impossible to get) The reason I ask is because I did a pretty extensive personal study on piston AR's and found that POF, to me, had the "beefiest" and most reliable piston system of the ones I looked at. </div></div>

I agree with you 100% on the HK, they are overrated. In my experience, LMT, PWS and LWRC make the most reliable piston guns. <span style="color: #FF0000">Most of the POF issues I have seen have been extraction related, the piston system seems ok</span>. Just watched one go down the last week of March at a Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute class I was attending. Maybe these were all flukes and I just happened to be there.

Again, this is my personal experience. I've owned or ran nearly every piston and DI AR available. Currently I'm running a PWS to see how it performs. I have yet to see an issue with a LMT or LWRC piston gun on the range. I'm an industry professional, I don't knock other fireams companies for fun. I give my honest opinion based on many rounds downrange. </div></div>

No offense, but that's about as clear as mud. Extraction issues can happen to ANY AR... at ANY time. The fact that you witnessed it on POF's is purely coincidence... And I'd think you would know that.
However, I can respect letting us know what you've seen.

Cheers,
John </div></div>

I guess I am missing something. I've seen an unusual amount of POF guns that don't run yet that is clear as mud? Yes, it can happen to any gun. I guess as long as the problems are not related to the piston the gun is good to go huh? If it was one POF on one given day, that might be coincidence. It wasn't and it isn't. I'm out as there is obviously is nothing wrong with the POF design and they are the best AR's ever made. I guess I forget where I am at. There is a difference between using the AR for training and protection and using an AR to shoot holes in paper where if they fail to run it isn't a big deal. </div></div>

What was as clear as mud was the "extraction related" statement. That statement is about as vague as you can get. When you say something like that it could be the ammo, it could be how dirty the rifle is, it could be the magazine. Is it rippin' the rims off the brass?... Is it leavin' the brass in the receiver?... Ya see, any AR can do that stuff at any time.
Nobody said it was the "Best AR ever made", Just that it's as good as any... and better than most. The "problems" you noted are inherant to ANY AR!

And don't even throw that "training and protection" BULLSHIT around! I've seen a guy smash his M-16 against a rock until it broke in half and then fling it toward the enemy by the barrel because the fucking thing wouldn't work!... Screaming the whole time! That was some funny shit... Tragic, but funny.
 
Re: POF 223 upper. Opinions please.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will also say that I probably shoot more ammo in a week then everyone in this thread combined does and i have had 000000000 "Zero malfunctions and or issues" Maybe I have got the magic rifle.</div></div>Tony, you don't have the magic rifle because I have it: I've had no issues with mine.
 
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