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Yeah...POF sucks so bad that their rifles were chosen over LWRC, SCAR, and several others when the California Fish & Game ran all said rifles through a 5-day torture test of 5,000rds for each rifle and in multiple scenarios.
There are many, many shooters who haven't had a single issue (myself included) so to say POF as a hole "sucks period" is exaggeration at it's worst. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.
To change your username, click My Profile > Edit Profile and there you will find the ability to change it to whatever you choose. If I may make a suggestion, perhaps something like 'AmateurShooter' or 'ProDouchebag' would be in order.
After you posted this bullshit in another topic:
It would be safe to say that you haven't a clue about what the fuck you're doing. The aforementioned rifles ARE sub moa shooters if the trigger man knows how to drive a semi-auto because it's not like shooting a bolt gun.
If you're a member of SWAT and NONE of you could group less than 3 inches then I hope like hell you never show up to 'save the day' of anyone I know because they will likely meet an untimely death due to piss poor marksmanship.
There are many, many shooters who haven't had a single issue (myself included) so to say POF as a hole "sucks period" is exaggeration at it's worst. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.
To change your username, click My Profile > Edit Profile and there you will find the ability to change it to whatever you choose. If I may make a suggestion, perhaps something like 'AmateurShooter' or 'ProDouchebag' would be in order.
After you posted this bullshit in another topic:
It would be safe to say that you haven't a clue about what the fuck you're doing. The aforementioned rifles ARE sub moa shooters if the trigger man knows how to drive a semi-auto because it's not like shooting a bolt gun.
If you're a member of SWAT and NONE of you could group less than 3 inches then I hope like hell you never show up to 'save the day' of anyone I know because they will likely meet an untimely death due to piss poor marksmanship.
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There are countless posts on this forum, as well as many independent reviews (including published reviews) about the extreme quality, durability, functioning and accuracy of the POF platform as a whole as well as the phenomenal support from everyone at POF from Frank all the way down the food chain to the janitor.
While I'm sorry to hear reports of your alleged experiences and sorry that the POF rifles in question have otherwise failed to meet your needs/expectations, my experiences, like KillShot's, are 180 degrees in the opposite direction. I have owed (and still own) multiple POF products and they are hands down some of the finest semi-auto platform rifles available today (for piston operated rifles or otherwise). While you may THINK you have eliminated the "shooter error" factor...the fact that KillShot brings up a post wherein you admitted that you and your SWAT folks can't get some of the most accurate semi-autos on the market to shoot "less than an inch" suggests otherwise...especially with respect to the LB which every one I have fired was a 1/2MOA shooter if the jackass operating it did his/her part and the ammo used was appropriate.
As for your user name...you can also go to the "Forum Actions" tab, click "Edit Profile" and you'll see a box wherein you can change your user name as you please.
While I'm sorry to hear reports of your alleged experiences and sorry that the POF rifles in question have otherwise failed to meet your needs/expectations, my experiences, like KillShot's, are 180 degrees in the opposite direction. I have owed (and still own) multiple POF products and they are hands down some of the finest semi-auto platform rifles available today (for piston operated rifles or otherwise). While you may THINK you have eliminated the "shooter error" factor...the fact that KillShot brings up a post wherein you admitted that you and your SWAT folks can't get some of the most accurate semi-autos on the market to shoot "less than an inch" suggests otherwise...especially with respect to the LB which every one I have fired was a 1/2MOA shooter if the jackass operating it did his/her part and the ammo used was appropriate.
As for your user name...you can also go to the "Forum Actions" tab, click "Edit Profile" and you'll see a box wherein you can change your user name as you please.
Yeah, my .308 is trash.......can you believe my damn flyer at 12:00? That was surely the rifle.
I dont think its any secret that pof has its fair share of problems. Its more interesting that hogan.s own rifles have very few issues, and whens the last time you saw a thread with someone complaining about a gap-10?
Killshot youve been here a while and as an owner I understand your defending your rifle but you ought to be more objective because I know you.ve read the other pof issues threads.
Having said that OP when you just jump on here and start crying your going to look silly.
What shop do you work for? Do you have video or pictures of these malfunctions? What department is said SWAT with? Do you have some correspondence with the manufacture you.d like to share with us? Zero credibility and people just aren't going to care.
Killshot youve been here a while and as an owner I understand your defending your rifle but you ought to be more objective because I know you.ve read the other pof issues threads.
Having said that OP when you just jump on here and start crying your going to look silly.
What shop do you work for? Do you have video or pictures of these malfunctions? What department is said SWAT with? Do you have some correspondence with the manufacture you.d like to share with us? Zero credibility and people just aren't going to care.
I actually almost bought a POF in December but, heard similar from many other people -- Most of them being military/leo, complaining very adamantly about extraction/accuracy issues. I even called around, actually, to shops that are POF dealers and even they acknowledged there were "recent" issues.
Everyone has a "bad run" at some time or another...Maybe PoF is on one? ~ This is far from the first time we've had members post about piston-extraction issues, particularly with the POF...
I don't think this is necessarily an "all POF's suck dick because mine is bad" situation but, considering their reputation of late, it's certainly plausible.
BTW ~ I went with an Armalite AR10 instead and the stock barrel was reamed incorrectly...That was a shit-ton of fun.
Everyone has a "bad run" at some time or another...Maybe PoF is on one? ~ This is far from the first time we've had members post about piston-extraction issues, particularly with the POF...
I don't think this is necessarily an "all POF's suck dick because mine is bad" situation but, considering their reputation of late, it's certainly plausible.
BTW ~ I went with an Armalite AR10 instead and the stock barrel was reamed incorrectly...That was a shit-ton of fun.
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I think POF needs to rethink some things
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I've had issues with POF as well before, it was more on the timing and customer service department. I WOULD NOT label they suck as a whole. I've seen it with my own eyes several POF's shoot sub MOA. A friend has a 16" 308 that he and a buddy used to take third place at the last Wood's Match.
Now, POF has had it's issue, I would label them hit or miss if I was gonna label them.
On a side note, I've never seen or heard any of the 6.5 Creedmoor guns they produced shoot well. More then likely I think it probably had to do with a pressure issue with their adjustable gas system.
Now, POF has had it's issue, I would label them hit or miss if I was gonna label them.
On a side note, I've never seen or heard any of the 6.5 Creedmoor guns they produced shoot well. More then likely I think it probably had to do with a pressure issue with their adjustable gas system.
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It's tough when things change, doesn't mean they can't be fixed, but when something changes inside a company to create an issue, its hard. Especially when an asshole logs on the internet and gives a Blanket Statement like POFs Suck.
Which the history shows otherwise. Instead of trying to give them a chance to fix it, or help them fix it because of your 'vast" experience, you decide to post online. Shows real well, I hope a customer of Sharp Shooters never has an issue and comes on here to slam you, because if it happens, we'll definitely let it ride due to your poor form on display here.
Small / Local companies, especially gun companies should be supporting and helping each other, instead we have a representative from a company, Sharp Shooters, slamming a manufacturer because a single run of rifles is not working the way they would like. Forget the 1000s on the street that do work well and all the people who have had no trouble with them, it's all wiped away and they feel it is right to attack the company with a blanket, "they suck".
I also own several POFs, mostly 308s, and they are flawless, in fact mine were tried out by some local .gov to compare to KAC, Larue, etc, and the POFs were tight, accurate and really raised an eyebrow that the $2400 POF was more accurate the OBRs they tried. Sure, these are not the same lot as the current rifles, but still, do you just blanket throw that away that is no longer valid.
Remind me never to do business with Sharps Shooter, and not to allow them on here to advertise, as they can't seem to understand how important it is to support one another. I suppose some people are just like that...
Which the history shows otherwise. Instead of trying to give them a chance to fix it, or help them fix it because of your 'vast" experience, you decide to post online. Shows real well, I hope a customer of Sharp Shooters never has an issue and comes on here to slam you, because if it happens, we'll definitely let it ride due to your poor form on display here.
Small / Local companies, especially gun companies should be supporting and helping each other, instead we have a representative from a company, Sharp Shooters, slamming a manufacturer because a single run of rifles is not working the way they would like. Forget the 1000s on the street that do work well and all the people who have had no trouble with them, it's all wiped away and they feel it is right to attack the company with a blanket, "they suck".
I also own several POFs, mostly 308s, and they are flawless, in fact mine were tried out by some local .gov to compare to KAC, Larue, etc, and the POFs were tight, accurate and really raised an eyebrow that the $2400 POF was more accurate the OBRs they tried. Sure, these are not the same lot as the current rifles, but still, do you just blanket throw that away that is no longer valid.
Remind me never to do business with Sharps Shooter, and not to allow them on here to advertise, as they can't seem to understand how important it is to support one another. I suppose some people are just like that...
One of my close friends had exactly the same issues with his 308 POF. He lives in Flagstaff, AZ and sent it back 3 times to their Scottsdale facility. Heard the same story as the OP as to how well it shot before they sent it back with the same problem. Fortunately his business took him to POF i Scottsdale and he hand carried it n. Waited 4 hours while the work ed on it. The problem was finally solved. He sold it right afterwards.
By the way I have a POF 415 (223). It is a great shooter and have never had a problem.
By the way I have a POF 415 (223). It is a great shooter and have never had a problem.
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If you will look at my first post I did say that "I wouldn't put them in the running unless its a 223" I agree that it seems the 223 they have figured out. What kind of accuracy r u getting?
You guys are in cahoots and just dog-piling now, you are together, so personally I don't really believe 100% of anything you say, as there are always two sides to a story. and when more than one from the same place come on to complain about the same thing together who is to say, one isn't lying and the other is there to swear too it.
Anything is possible and issues happen all the time with any company. Doesn't mean they can't happen to anyone at anytime. For every, they suck, you'll find a 'mine's right' ... so who has has the high ground. Certainly not the two guys who came on here to slam them. For all we know you are a Larue Shill, or some other manufacturer is your new favorite and now you want to stop POF to push XYZ.
While I am certain you are sincere, it seems apparent that you are over reaching and just a tad emotional in your assessment. Many people know POF has had their fair share of issues as noted. Others still extol the virtues of the rifle too and can support their position.
I own a few of them- four to be exact. My experience is a bit mixed. Customer service wise I can tell you- they can suck. One individual in particular is the owner's brother, I believe who is a certifiable punk, so much to the degree that I am surprised no one has clocked his smart ass- if he still works there. My experience with him and their response time in certain instances has left a lot to be desired. Specifically during the last crunch in 2008 or 09 can't remember when they were having issues getting Rock barrels. In fact I have the .223 that needs service but simply became exacerbated with them- him in particular to do anything about it.
On the other hand, some of their rifles do exactly as they are stated to do. By and large, they are built well and a quality rifle.
I own a few of them- four to be exact. My experience is a bit mixed. Customer service wise I can tell you- they can suck. One individual in particular is the owner's brother, I believe who is a certifiable punk, so much to the degree that I am surprised no one has clocked his smart ass- if he still works there. My experience with him and their response time in certain instances has left a lot to be desired. Specifically during the last crunch in 2008 or 09 can't remember when they were having issues getting Rock barrels. In fact I have the .223 that needs service but simply became exacerbated with them- him in particular to do anything about it.
On the other hand, some of their rifles do exactly as they are stated to do. By and large, they are built well and a quality rifle.
A picture is worth a thousand words and you posted three.
POF has a lot of fanboys so I rarely say anything but a friend of mine had the same problem. It went back to POF several times and came back the same every time. He tried every mag you can think of and every type of ammo and never could get it to run right or shoot right. After almost a thousand dollars of ammo wasted trying to get it to shoot and POF denying to refund him after failing to fix it numerous times he got the store to refund him the cost of the rifle. The store had enough problems with them he said they stopped selling them.
I'm sure some have had good luck with them but the one example I have seen wasn't reassuring. Because of that I bought a LMT MWS when I wanted a 308 gas gun and my next will probably be a KAC of some sort just because I've ne'er owned an SR25 and the few I've shot were flawless.
Frank's brother is no longer there. He was part of the Hogan debacle... I am sure it has been tough for Frank, he is a super nice guy, the type that would give you the shirt off his back.
Anything is possible, I know my 3 308s have all been flawless, but again, anyone can and will have issues. People love their S&Bs too, I have 15 of them, however the last two brand new ones were bad out of the box and had to go back. Puts a sour taste in your mouth for sure, that is a $7k worth of scopes that didn't work. You send them in, they fix them and you move on. With all the changes lately at POF, the drama with the Hogan battle I am sure it has trickled down. Doesn't mean they won't resolve it.
Nobody appreciates posts like these, it makes you look bad and does nothing to solve the problem.
Anything is possible, I know my 3 308s have all been flawless, but again, anyone can and will have issues. People love their S&Bs too, I have 15 of them, however the last two brand new ones were bad out of the box and had to go back. Puts a sour taste in your mouth for sure, that is a $7k worth of scopes that didn't work. You send them in, they fix them and you move on. With all the changes lately at POF, the drama with the Hogan battle I am sure it has trickled down. Doesn't mean they won't resolve it.
Nobody appreciates posts like these, it makes you look bad and does nothing to solve the problem.
Consider the source:
And take the complaint for what it's worth.
I've never had a problem with mine and I'm sticking with POF.
And take the complaint for what it's worth.
I've never had a problem with mine and I'm sticking with POF.
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Exactly... I am sure YXZ Rifles is there new favorite, so now they feel they can say, "don't believe me, check the internet".
That's heartening because that kid was a punk- and that is being generous. It had to have had trickle down on the business because it did indeed leave a sour taste with me especially after spending the money I have with them. That said, any company will have problems when things are built/serviced with human hands- that much is given. It is not the problems that they have but the solutions the company develops and how they deal with them that matters.
So to say POF sucks is a broad stroke that is not deserved. In fact it is just not called for. That is coming from someone who has seen both sides of this equation with this company. Like I said I still have one rifle that needs service.
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Hey dont believe me???? Go to POF website and see that they dont offer the 6.5 creedmoor anymore due to all the problems I, and my customers have found. Go ahead look. I give them extreme credit for not offering it anymore untill {if} they fix them. This just happened 2 days ago I believe
Chris Desomma is no longer employed by POF and hasn't been for quite awhile and yes, he's a dick of the highest order and singlehandedly gave POF a bad name in the customer service department. What AmateurShooterLBK fails to comprehend is you get more flies with honey than with vinegar and he chose the latter upon creating this topic.
Has POF had issues in the past? Yes. Have they always made it right? Yes. If the barrel is bad then it's not due to POF workmanship because they use Rock Creek barrels. Furthermore, I find it difficult to believe that all 6 or so rifles that you mentioned posted poor accuracy results. I'm not saying it isn't possible but when you post in another topic that none of the rifles you've shot are less than MOA shooters, that alone tells me that IT'S THE INDIAN AND NOT THE ARROW.
GAP, POF, Les Baer, JP, and a few others are KNOWN sub-moa shooters so for that reason and the comment you made as stated above, I'm calling bullshit on your claim that none of them group less than 3".
ANYONE can take photos of shitty groups and blame it on the rifle. No one wants to admit or accept the fact that it may not be the rifle but actually has to do with improper technique such as failing to follow through, improper bipod engagement which results in bipod hop, improper form when behind the trigger which leads to poor accuracy, etc.
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Good for POF, shows they are addressing the problem and not trying to push them off on people.
Again, as others have said, the blanket statements you made are unsat, especially coming from a company. You added, "period" for effect, and clearly you are talking about 1 thing, the 6.5CM version, not them across the board, but a casual observer would not see that...
Clearly there is some bias as you failed to address the charge, so frankly I think anyone reading this should take it with a grain of salt from guys with an agenda.
I can't speak for the Nor Cal match but NOMAD won the 2011 Oregon Sniper Challenge with a POF but hey...they're crap.
Qualify your comments with" In my opinion". Otherwise you come off as sounding like a tool especially considering others with just as much experience disagree with you. Or continue being a clown I guess.
Just for the record, which rifle(s) so you suggest are superior? Oh and um, which ones do you and your partner sell?
EDIT: My comments are directed toward the OP and his buddy- not you Killshot- whose comments were tongue in cheek I'm certain
I was being facetious/sarcastic based off the original/initial post.
Oh, and I don't sell rifles...I shoot them, so you can blow me and sit down.
Yes, I acknowledged that. Your comments were in summation to what SharpShooter is apparently stating. I am interested in the rifles he authorizes as noteworthy which will most likely be ones he sells. Just a thought.
EDIT: I'm sitting down dude- and LOL- I don't swing that way....
My apologies, waveone, as I thought your comments were directed at me.
LOL- yes I could have used a bit more specific language. However, you are facetiously stating exactly what the OP is suggesting. Which I do not agree with even though I have had an issue or two with POF as well.
He needs to account for his comments with visible proof and a qualifying comment like In my opinion/experience. Not a general sweeping comment.
Here's a short article written by none other NOMAD himself on the POF 6.5 Creedmoor, published on March 31st.
Sniperlink Forum: Long Range Precision with POF?s 6.5 Creedmoor
Sniperlink Forum: Long Range Precision with POF?s 6.5 Creedmoor
Wow. Touchy thread. I was looking at POF and Larue in the fall of last year to get a .308. I heard many of the same things about POF so I ended up going with Larue. I always wished I could've shot both of them side by side though. Something about POF is really appealing to me, despite the recent negative press. I don't pay much attention to posts like the OP's original when they're not objective, but he does mention several things that I "heard". It sounds like, in summary, if you've bought a POF in the last year, you are more likely to be experiencing some type of problem than if you had purchased it a couple years ago or more (unless you have a .223). I ended up selling my Larue during the height of the AR craze for twice what I bought it for (still feel guilty about that....kinda) so I'm still considering getting another .308 on the AR platform. I'm still interested in POF, but it sounds like I should wait awhile before making any final decisions, which is actually a good thing for me, because I've already spent WAAAY too much money on guns this year!
Well, this has all been very entertaining 
I for one appreciate the posts alerting the community to the issues that POF "is" having. Supporting the community is great and I agree with it but the community includes consumers not just the companies, it doesn't seem right to beat up on a guy for talking about the issues he has been having with any particular company. It seems that others are also having similar issues with their rifles as well and have chimed in. Thanks for the information.
I for one appreciate the posts alerting the community to the issues that POF "is" having. Supporting the community is great and I agree with it but the community includes consumers not just the companies, it doesn't seem right to beat up on a guy for talking about the issues he has been having with any particular company. It seems that others are also having similar issues with their rifles as well and have chimed in. Thanks for the information.M
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How can i Delete this thread? I just want it gone and I will more than likely delete my profile if i can. thanks
You can't delete the topic once others have commented on it. You made an ass of yourself so deal with it. If you want your profile deleted, send Lowlight a message and I'm sure he would be happy to help you with that.
I wouldn't let it get to you, it's not worth it in the grand scheme of things. Just abandon the thread and let it burn out. No harm done or meant from what I see.
You certainly touched a nerve among those who have and love their POF's and I can hardly blame them. After all, most of us get a bit fond of our favorite rifle and take umbrage when we perceive an unwarranted attack. It seems to me that your experience was negative and you needed to vent a bit and did so. Maybe you overshot the mark a bit, but that's not unusual, and forgiveable.
Don't worry about it and just keep coming back. You see that most of us will get in a spot now and then. A year from now nobody will remember and it won't affect your ability to have children or engage in social graces.
Carry on!
Just got off the phone w/a buddy of mine that works at a gun shop on base in Alabama -- They've had to "fix" or "address" several POF's as of late...He said it was about 3/10 that just either aren't cycling properly or aren't shooting 100%...Was also told that of ever 3 they send back, 1 comes back "wonky". The 308's that shoot well are amazing...The ones that shoot like shit, really shoot like shit.
I realize this is hear-say and I'm fairly new here so, I don't expect this to change anyone's mind but, it's not just the OP with issues.
3/10 IMO, for a weapon, is an understandable rate to have *some* issues but, again, I'm not saying POF is "bad" and that you should/shouldn't buy one, I'm just addressing the fact that others are having issues with them at well.
I realize this is hear-say and I'm fairly new here so, I don't expect this to change anyone's mind but, it's not just the OP with issues.
3/10 IMO, for a weapon, is an understandable rate to have *some* issues but, again, I'm not saying POF is "bad" and that you should/shouldn't buy one, I'm just addressing the fact that others are having issues with them at well.
Lol... Seriously? You were confident enough to say it loud and publicly but at the first sign of opposing pressure you want to go into hiding? I see multiple people even siding with you... Way to stand by your beliefs...
He ran off, too many "know it alls" here so I deleted his account as he requested.
There is a bit of dishonestly right there, soon as there was push back he ran.
There is a bit of dishonestly right there, soon as there was push back he ran.
Listen guys POF, Larue, Gap, JP, Lwrc all suck so I will be more than happy to buy them from anyone who is not happy. But of course since they suck I want a major discount, lol. Sometimes we run accross a few people that just do not know what the F--K they are talking about. To many Bolt Gun shooters that just don't have enough trigger time with Semi-Auto rifles, they are a whole different breed.
Just got my 16" POF 308 this year and it shoots and functions great. First 3 shot printed a cloverleaf @ 100yds. Last time I went to the range a guy had a 20" 308 POF and he was not happy, his gun would not cycle correctly and he started saying that the gun was a POS and he was going to take it back. I ask him if I could see the rifle and after a quick look over I found that he had been playing with the adjustable gas switch and had left it in the wrong position. After correcting his mistake, the gun ran perfect and shot very well. This was only his 2nd AR type gun and his first 308 and piston.
Sometime it's not the machine it's the operator. I'm sure that some have actual problems from the factory, but I wonder how many of these may just be people not familiar with the system or the different impulse from an AR platform when it comes to good accuracy.
Sometime it's not the machine it's the operator. I'm sure that some have actual problems from the factory, but I wonder how many of these may just be people not familiar with the system or the different impulse from an AR platform when it comes to good accuracy.
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I purchased my POF P308 NP3 16.5" from OST in early March and it runs flawlessly. Not a single issue with the gun. I only have irons on it but will test accuracy as soon as I get some glass on it. I couldn't be happier.
Guys, I have shopped at SharpShooters in Lubbock, and while their prices are sometimes quite high and they are often too busy to get to everyone, I am pretty confident that this guy must have been just an employee WAY off his leash. I don't think the owner is the type to get on a forum and make a professional dick of himself like this.
My P-308 recon, like many others have complained, did not run out of the box. It seemed every three rounds at best would get a case stuck in the chamber. I was not shooting junk ammo BTW. It was not an extraction problem because the BCG and CH would get stuck as well due to the extractor holding onto the case. My only complaint is that I tried to contact POF via phone and email and they never returned my calls or emails. I gave the chamber a good polishing and the gun has ran like a top ever since. I can say that POFs CS sucks balls so it will likely be my last rifle from them.
First post ever! Super newb. Anyhow. I own a POF 308 and love it. Very accurate rifle. Unfortunately it does stovepipe and lately a couple of rounds have stuck in the chamber. I live on a little island in the middle of the pacific and as such it's difficult to get ammo etc. Because of this I have been shooting reloads. A buddy of mine said I should try factory ammo instead. Any other suggestions on what I can do here locally before opting to mail my rifle back. I'd rather just fix it here if possible. Mahalo in advance for any helpful info
I appreciate threads like this because it shows that there is a way to go about making your concerns known and way not to. I didn't get to read what OP said but clearly he is upset about something to do with POF. The way he want about it was pretty poor but it also seems like he isn't alone. Yes many manufactueres in many busisnesses put out a dud/lemon from time to time but from the sheer number of people posting in this thread about extraction issues with the 6.5 it sounds to me like there is issue.
Sure Tony/NOMAD got one that rocked the house, and Lowlight has a few 308(s) that were also big pimpin but others haven't had such luck. Conspiracy theory's and internet hysteria aside if a gun doesn't cycle reliably with factory hornady match ammo on 10/10 rifles there is a big problem with QC and it never should've made it to retail. What I think is missing is a statement from POF. My uneducated internet best guess is that thier legal team doesn't want to recall all of the POF 6.5 CMs so instead they've pulled them, without a statement of any kind, in hopes that it will all go away and they will figure out to fix the issue.
Sure Tony/NOMAD got one that rocked the house, and Lowlight has a few 308(s) that were also big pimpin but others haven't had such luck. Conspiracy theory's and internet hysteria aside if a gun doesn't cycle reliably with factory hornady match ammo on 10/10 rifles there is a big problem with QC and it never should've made it to retail. What I think is missing is a statement from POF. My uneducated internet best guess is that thier legal team doesn't want to recall all of the POF 6.5 CMs so instead they've pulled them, without a statement of any kind, in hopes that it will all go away and they will figure out to fix the issue.
Sometimes, some one gets a "bad" rifle. Send her back, for a Good rifle.
Thats right,ALL of these makers have mistakes that make it out. I have never heard of any of them not making good on thier products. People are just so quick to get on the internet and bash,without taking the steps to correct the real problem.
