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Popped my reloading cherry

jippy1

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Minuteman
Nov 8, 2019
84
8
South Carolina
All advice welcome
So I did a two shot x 10 charge weight ladder test
6.5 creedmoor, once used (in my gun) Hornady brass, cci br 2 large rifle primers, and varget

powder charges went from 34.5 to 36.1, in 0.2 grain increments

here’s the data:
 

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Here’s the shot grouping, at 100 yards:
I expected em to string up vertically a bit more

should I have used coarser increments , like 0.3 grains? Larger?

should I have done this at 200 or 300 yards?
 

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That’s not a group, it’s a pattern! 6.5 Creed shotgun, well I never!

First, may I suggest setting up a new dot for each charge. That way the results will be easier for you to see.

Second, two shots is not enough to tell much from. I would load 5-10 with each charge.

Third, what is your baseline? What does the gun shoot with factory ammo or known handloads on a consistent basis? Hard to tell what your getting for results when we don’t know what the gun shoots ‘before’ laddered handloads.

4th, what is the gun? And scope. If that is a bolt gun from bags with a good scope at 100... something is wrong with the gun, hour hold/technique, or the ammo. If it’s a semi with a red dot... makes more sense. That looks like a 1-2” ‘dot’ of duct tape. I would expect any 6.5 at that range to group better or, as you state, vertical string.

Last... twist rate?

good start! Your gun didn’t blow up. Your first loads went bang and are on paper. Thats what’s important for those first few rounds. But to diagnose, we need some more info. And it would help you to use bigger samples and start logging a data book with your loads, conditions, etc.

Welcome to the club! It is fun and rewarding as hell. Good start. Hope we can help you dial that in.

Sirhr
 
Was looking for a pattern, more than a group,
As that target represented 10 different charge weights

I thought each hotter load would be slightly higher that the prior one

As to my baseline,
a) I am usually .3 to .6 moa at 100 yards with this gun and factory match ammo

B) ringing steel to 800 yards, (no idea of group size, as it was my first time there and targets needed paint (couldn’t hear if I hit 900 or not)

C) I almost posted this (below) here
But opted for the general marksmanship forum

will repost it here, since it is relevant
•••••••••••••••••••••

Is this cold bore? or cold shooter:

1st target is at 100 yards
Hornady’s Match 120gr ammo
New Sako s-20, 1:8” twist, 24” barrel
Bench with front bag, and squeeze rear bag
Vortex razor amg

four shots grouped to .36 moa
However, the flyer to low right was my FIRST shot / coldEST bore shot

Would one ordinarily expect THAT MUCH deviation from a cold bore?
(considering the gun and I can group)

or did I just pull the first shot, and that much error was ME, rather than a cold bore

Second pic are shots 6&7 after a windage adjustment

First group is 1.21 moa, counting the flyer
 

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Looking at the flat spot on the curve
I’ve loaded up 6 each at the lower six powder charges, 34.5, 34.7, 34.9, 35.1, 35.3, & 35.5

(speed is keen , consistency is KING??)

was planning on shooting three shot groups at 12 different targets
So each charge weight will have two, 3 shot groups
 
Congratulations on the first loads. Reloading is a whole other hobby in itself. I will say that your velocities are very low. Most 6.5cm runs around 2750fps. What powder are you running? Check out the 6.5 load data in the reloading section. I run H4350 around 42.6 grains and get 2763 with 140 grain bullets. Where did you get your load starting point from?
All advice welcome
So I did a two shot x 10 charge weight ladder test
6.5 creedmoor, once used (in my gun) Hornady brass, cci br 2 large rifle primers, and varget

powder charges went from 34.5 to 36.1, in 0.2 grain increments

here’s the data:
 
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Congratulations on the first loads. Reloading is a whole other hobby in itself. I will say that your velocities are very low. Most 6.5cm runs around 2750fps. What powder are you running? Check out the 6.5 load data in the reloading section. I run H4350 around 42.6 grains and get 2763 with 140 grain bullets. Where did you get your load starting point from?
Hornaday and hodgdon for data

varget powder
 
1615652061948.png


From Sierra Web site.

Some baseline data for 142 Gr.

Sako S20 with a good scope should be shooting much better than that, even with ladder charges. You could be a grain or more off of powder at 100 and not be 'patterning' like that. Also those cold bore flyers are 'way' off where a Sako should print cold.

By way of comparison, my TRG will send a cold bore first shot 1/4" - 1/3" up and to the left consistently. No Sako worth its salt should be putting out a group like that at 100 even if you are mixing up all kinds of stuff.

Before going to a ladder charge, may I suggest loading a box of 50 at, say, 34 grains. Fire the whole box of 50 in groups of 5 at small dots. See what you get. If they are patterning or all over the place... check equipment and technique (both loading and shooting).

Your long range groups with (what I assume are factory rounds) are good. And should be indicative of what you and your rifle can do. I would suggest getting a baseline on your reloading technique with a decent sized batch of rounds. Then start working up and down from that baseline to get the group tighter.

But I think that jumping into reloading 'first' with ladder charging and changing up your recipe right out of the gate is just going to confuse you or frustrate you.

I know powder and primers and components are hard to get right now. But here is how I go about a load for a new rifle.

I pick out a 'decent' load with the bullet weight I want based on range and twist. I'll load about 20 rounds. And fire them just to inspect case, primer for flattening, figure out OAL/ogive seating, etc. I'll shoot those at 100 and expect a good, but not perfect group. If it's not a good group, I'll do another 20. I never go near maximum powder charges. I find that a bit on the slower side is better (then again, I rarely shoot at ELR)).

Then If those 20 check out, I'll load 500. I rarely load less than 500 at a time, except for exotic things like hunting loads for weird rifles. But those 500 cases cases will become 'matched' to that rifle. Those get fired out at all ranges. But are still not my 'final' rounds. I expect they will shoot well. But not as good as they 'can' be. But using those brass which are now fireformed to the rifle, I will work out my 'final' load. Using anywhere from 20 - 50 loads to refine the charge and also do all the 'scut work' like primer pocket stuff and neck stuff, etc. Then I'll load up 'all' my cases in my final load. In that case it's micrometer dies, primer pocket depth seater, all the bells and whistles. Then we're looking at real groups and consistency.

I find I get three shootings out of the brass before I want to FL-resize and trim. Might be time for annealing, too. But I generally just replace brass if it's something not exotic. I'm not into annealing. Not because I don't believe in it, just because replacing brass is easier.. So after a few reloadings my .308 (for examle) gets designated for beltfed loads or plinking.

But I would say you are jumping too fast into trying ladder charges and tinkering with the loads. Establish a baseline with your first handloads. Get a few hundred (at least) behind you before you start tinkering. Maybe try some different bullet weights for the 1:8 twist. But ladder charging is after you have a basic load worked out.

Your rifle, gear, etc. seem right on. Practice on your reloading to get technique and muscle memory (of loading) down and carry on!

Sirhr
 
Seems slow for a creedmo. 2 shots is statistically insufficient to determine anything other than velocity/charge. I would see what taking it to 37gr does. Then pick a velocity your happy with and test +/- charges around that. Usually 5 shots for each .2gr

Shoot each charge weight at a different target unless you are keeping track of each hole.
 
All advice welcome
So I did a two shot x 10 charge weight ladder test
6.5 creedmoor, once used (in my gun) Hornady brass, cci br 2 large rifle primers, and varget

powder charges went from 34.5 to 36.1, in 0.2 grain increments

here’s the data:
2 things
First, only 2 shots is not enough (unless you find pressure signs, then just don't shoot the rest of your "bunch"), you need to be shooting at least 5 rounds for each load and more is better.
Second, move that target out to 300. That is not so far that it will be hard to shoot a good group but it is far enough that it will make a difference that is more noticeable and measurable. Try to shoot on days with little to no wind.
Welcome to a whole nuther hole to throw your hard earned money into!