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Portable/Emergency Solar Panel

Crewdog135

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Minuteman
Jun 26, 2009
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Omaha
Hide brain trust, I'm once again asking for your support...
There's some good off-grid type solar setup threads here, but what I'm looking for right now is something to keep batteries, radios, phones, etc charged in the event of longish power outage. I'm guessing a 100W, maybe a couple of them. But there is so much trash solar out there, I'm looking for recommendations. Priorities would probably be
1. Good quality
2. Ease of use (USB/outlet connections)
3. Portability/setup (these will be stored until needed, or maybe for grab and go.)

I'm just starting the "trying to get smart" process. Any info/recommendations about what to look for/avoid appreciated.
 
Oftentimes now, with the smaller panels ">2 sq/ft" the connection block has 1 or even 2 USB ports on them.

One particular panel we have here, has the two ports as well as a short lead with a connector. There were 2 separate leads that attach to said connector. 1 was to plug into a 'cigarette lighter' socket, and the other was 2 clamps that would attach directly to posts on a 12v battery.

The other benefit of this one particular panel is that it is 'semi-flexible' and rather tough. I'd offer pics, but it's stowed in the boat for the winter.
 
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Seems like a battery bank with solar panels are all the rage right now. Although I hate the term "solar generator", that's what they're calling em
 
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I have had a 'solar generator' for a while now. Used it maybe 2 times as designed, the rest was just playing and testing.

Mine is a bit older now, but I have a Jackery Explorer 1000
with 2 ALLPOWERS SP027 IP66 Solar Panel kit with MC-4 Output, 100W foldable panels

You might not need a 1000wh battery for your use, but I would suggest you at least get a small battery (something that is Lifepo4) where the battery has the ability to be used while it is solar charging (hence the name solar generator) they can't all do this.

You hook up the solar panels to the battery, then hook up whatever you want to charge or power to the battery, the battery will smooth out any disruptions from clouds or whatever may interfere with the solar generation and or another way to look at it is the solar will allow the battery to last longer if you are powering something that takes more juice than your solar adds.

FYI you only get about 80% of the rated solar output from a solar panel. My 100w panels can provide 80w in real life. I have never seen them output 100w.

over all simple to hook up and get running, works well
 
I've used a Renogy setup pretty extensively.
It was a 4x100 watt panel unit, 2500 watt invertor, quad 100ah batteries.
Not a kit, I bought the pieces and wired it up.
Worked very well for what I needed it to do (power a RV fully).
You need some sort of mount so you can turn the panels to follow the sun for max output....
Other than that it's easy peasy.

I could run a AC unit easily with other things like a fridge and some lights and a laptop with cellphone and cordless tool batteries recharging all at the same time with zero issues.

Don't cheap on the panels.
The cheap ones will not putout like a $25 hooker on main st.
The good ones will.
 
I guess I forgot to add.
I would not even consider a inverter that is not a full sine wave unit.
You might not think you'll need that functionality.....but if you plug in a laptop, a cellphone, a rechargeable power tool battery that has a *smart chip* in it.....you do.
 
Well I got two (208w each) "house" panels that were 10 years old for $80. Checked them with my multimeter...good to go. I got new connectors, hooked them up to my solar generator mppt (battery pack/inverter setup)....panels are doing work!! Called the manufacturer (Sharp)...panels are still covered and now registered under their warranty for power output.

My point : Learn what you can about solar, solar equipment, and testing. Don't pass up a chance to buy older gear cause it still works. I might not be able to hook up a 20KW set up, but I sure can get some power into a pack.
 
I have built two solar battery boxes (I also disagree with the term solar generator), mostly for portable Ham radio use, but for emergency power backup as well. Both have Bioenno batteries, both have Bioenno solar panels, one has a Bioenno charge controller and one has a PowerMini II charge controller. Each of the setups is modular, meaning each battery/solar panel can be used alone or in tandem with each other. The batteries can be charged from the panels as well as from AC chargers. One of the panels has USB outlets for device charging direct from the panel, one charges devices through the charge controller only. I chose Bioenno because their products are very Ham radio compatible and Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) free. They are not cheap, but they are quality and dependable. I would suggest researching the youtube channel Off-grid Ham Radio OH8STN. He is a former US Marine living in Finland and reviews real world use in austere environments (albeit mostly for Ham radio use) of a variety of solar products over a range of prices. All of this information is equally valuable for consumer (non-Ham) use as well. Please feel free to ask additional/specific questions. If I don't have first hand info on them, I should be able to direct you to somewhere that does.
 
Hide brain trust, I'm once again asking for your support...
There's some good off-grid type solar setup threads here, but what I'm looking for right now is something to keep batteries, radios, phones, etc charged in the event of longish power outage. I'm guessing a 100W, maybe a couple of them. But there is so much trash solar out there, I'm looking for recommendations. Priorities would probably be
1. Good quality
2. Ease of use (USB/outlet connections)
3. Portability/setup (these will be stored until needed, or maybe for grab and go.)

I'm just starting the "trying to get smart" process. Any info/recommendations about what to look for/avoid appreciated.

We really can't suggest anything till we know what you want to do. Keep your phone charged is one thing. Keeping a fridge running is another.

We live in the boonies, and we have been without power for 14 days straight a few years ago due to an ice storm. We will have power blips of 10-20 minutes monthly....enough for the generator to come on.

Also knowing where you are will help. If you live somewhere where it is freezing, you need to think of things like pipes in your house. If hot keeping your food good is a pretty top list item. Food is expensive. Open the door and start doing the math if you tossed everything in the trash.

At this stage I will say think it all the way through, but to get you started:

Volts X Amps will give you watts. Lets say your TV uses 100 watts. You watch it 3 hours a day, that is 300 watts. Your inverter holds (on its best day) 1000 watts. So you could watch TV roughly 9 hours before the beeping started saying you are out of battery.

Most things in the US are 120, most things will have an amp draw listed on them. That is all you need to know.

If you "really" want to know get one of these gizmos, they are kind of fun to watch. Not the one 3rd from the right, or 5th but the others. All are just fine.
1704285197801.png


Now that you know just what you want to power and for how long, you need to think about filling the batter back up. This is where it can get confusing, and I will continue in another post if you wish. Series Parallel, 12v 24v 48v.....all have goods and bads to them.

Also look outside, if in north america, this time of year is not known for days of sunshine around here. We have not seen the sun in about a week. My solar array of about 12 panels still made power however. About an amp, perhaps 1.6 at 16V. On a sunny day it will run over 30 amps at 36V. Just the way I have it wired.

I should do a video walk around on it. Still very much a work in progress that has stalled. It is cold outside and I don't do well in the cold.
 
+1 on Goal Zero if you want portable, kinda lightweight and good to go. I also recommend a small power pack for storing extra juice/recharges for those not so sunny days. I personally use the Goal Zero Nomad 50 solar panel and Goal Zero Sherpa 100 AC power bank camping/boating to keep charges on cell phone, satellite phone, iPad, gps, etc.
 
. Your inverter holds (on its best day) 1000 watts.
Only a battery, or bank of batteries......or a very large capacitor will hold a charge.
That is not defined in watts but (usually) amp hours (AH).....or milli amp hours (mAH).

The inverter converts the 10-18 VDC of the charge storing device to the 110-120 VAC (or 5VDC for USB).

If you have one of those little weenie Jackery type units it's going to hold very little and not going to power anything of real use.
It does, however, have both the battery bank and inverter all in one reasonably small and light package.
Do not expect it to run a small bar fridge for more than 30 minutes though.
 
Oh, yeah, we definitely need to know what state you live in. For.. the sun hours, yeah, that's it.
Never said fucking state, if you live in the DSW that is one thing. If you live off lake Michigan that is another....but I don't expect someone with your level of intelligence to grasp that one.
 
Only a battery, or bank of batteries......or a very large capacitor will hold a charge.
That is not defined in watts but (usually) amp hours (AH).....or milli amp hours (mAH).

The inverter converts the 10-18 VDC of the charge storing device to the 110-120 VAC (or 5VDC for USB).

If you have one of those little weenie Jackery type units it's going to hold very little and not going to power anything of real use.
It does, however, have both the battery bank and inverter all in one reasonably small and light package.
Do not expect it to run a small bar fridge for more than 30 minutes though.
These "solar generators" are rated in watts.
1704367422316.png


All a "solar generator" and I also hate the term, they generate nothing.....all they are is a battery and an inverter. The size of that battery and they.....type I guess I will say.....of the inverter will give the "capacity" of that specific box. You can see them above and how they are rated, 600w,200w, 4.8kWh.

They are all sized in watts. The battery is done in a voltage and amp hours, in these little pre made boxes you need to dig into the specs to see how they are powered. Are there two little 12v batteries in that box, are they wired in series or parallel, or is there one larger 24v battery.

Then just what you plug into them and what that draw is, is also going to tell you run time. Turning DC into AC is not a real efficient process, there will be loss, generally in heat. Most of the inverters have a "happy spot" where they are most efficient, generally around 70% of their stated max output.

Head over to DIY solar for some rundown on that.

If the OP is still here I can see one thing in the photo I linked that would likely make him look twice, and I will talk about that for a sec.
1704367902826.png


Cool solar panels to recharge the thing, and the thing itself. That is everything I need. And you are right it is everything you need. Question is how long will that take. How do you figure that one out.

As likely one of the few on here that has hand built his own system and did not cut a check and have it done I can tell you the questions you need to ask.

What are the rated outputs of those solar panels.
On the back of your panels they should have a sticker with this info on it.

1704367997370.png


This tells you everything you need to know. Open circuit is what you should see on your meter if you hook the panel + and - to your meter and it is a good sunny day. It should be in that ballpark. Everything here is going to be ballpark numbers. If it is half that on a sunny day you have issues. At this point I will say something about used. These things don't last forever, and as they age they will loose voltage. This is why people get rid of them. They still "work" but you might be getting 15v out of the thing and not 21. keep that in mind when looking at this stuff.

The only other that really "matter" are the rated readings. This panel will crank out 18v and 2.23 amps. Good ole Ohms law will tell us how many watts that is, and with that number vs your "generator" that will tell us how long it will take to "fill-er up". Again in perfect conditions.

So this one is dong 40w. Now your generator is 300, you can do the math on how many hours that is going to take.

Really in a nutshell that is about it.

Battery is another thing to look at Lifepo4 are popular, but they DO NOT like to get cold. Mine have a "heating pad" made for keeping the water tanks on motorhomes from freezing. You will destroy the batteries if you let them get to freezing. Another thing to think about if you live where it gets real cold.

Some panels do better in the heat. As they warm up they loose the ability to make their rated numbers, another thing to think about. If the ground is reflective they make two sided. The list goes on and on.

But don't charge this thing up and toss it in your shed to sit out the winter, it will not be happy come the spring and you need it for thunderstorms knocking out your power.
 
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I have a PAXCESS 120w folding panel from Amazon...even pointing south in optimal sun, I'm lucky to get 80w from it BUT it does serve to charge my cheapy Rockpals solar generator and can standalone charge a couple iPhones, a power bank, etc.

You definitely want as much PV (panel) as you can afford and transport when it comes to a portable system.

My barn is 100% offgrid, 1200w of panels and a 24v, 206AH LiFEPO4 battery setup. Works *great* and powers lights, air compressors, etc. but as stated above a heating pad under batteries keeps them from getting to BMS low-temp shutoff in winter (ask me how I know).
 
Never said fucking state, if you live in the DSW that is one thing. If you live off lake Michigan that is another....but I don't expect someone with your level of intelligence to grasp that one.
It was a joke. Grab a coffee.
 
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Do you guys lean towards seperate systems or one to do it all? As in, a larger capacity setup to run a couple of freezers/essentials and something smaller for phone charging etc.
 
Depends entirely on how portable you want/need it to be, as well as other capabilities such as pass-through charging (ie. can use AC power while charging via PV).

"Solar generators" are convenient and portable, but for the capacity/capability tend to cost more than a DIY. Something like an Ecoflow River 2 Pro or Delta 2 can power a modern refrigerator for a few hours while not being crazy expensive, portable enough to take camping, tailgating, etc., and able to be charged from various panel layouts.

If you desire more capability that one might call "semi-portable", you can DIY a system with an inexpensive LiFEPO4 battery, all-in-one charge controller/inverter, a wheeled tote or cart, and 200-400w of panels.
 
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Are there any permanent style panels for vehicle roofs that are somewhat sleek, like for an SUV? I don't want more wind noise than necessary.
 
Dakota Lithium power boxes are great. They have a few sizes that are ready to go to plug your shit into to charge and have solar panel connection..









 
Are there any permanent style panels for vehicle roofs that are somewhat sleek, like for an SUV? I don't want more wind noise than necessary.
I know they make some for motorhomes and trailers, I would imagine you could use them on an SUV if you wanted.
 
Do you guys lean towards seperate systems or one to do it all? As in, a larger capacity setup to run a couple of freezers/essentials and something smaller for phone charging etc.

I to think it "depends". But my take is it depends on you. Where you are when/if a long outage happens. Be it another ice storm or something far worse.

For me living in the boonies, I plan on staying put. I am not moving, so my stuff is not really portable.

Now I do have the bulk of my stuff on a cart. Currently the cart is in the shop and is running the stuff in there. The solar panels are mounted to the side of the shop....at least the ones I have mounted so far, some are just "bolted" to the ground. They will get on the side of the building I just have not got there yet.

My system started out as one battery, one small inverter, and a super cheap charge controller. It has grown to 11 batteries, a much larger charge controller and inverter, manual transfer switch hard wired into the shop. So my system is a bit of a rats nest. Along with the "one day" things is to clean up the wires, it is a total mess, but when you do it like I did it is a bit hard to keep it from getting messy. Now when my inverter is at the max 3000w, it will draw over 130 amps. As it grew I had to upsize battery cables. I spent a great deal of money, then had to buy "the same thing again" to make it work with the larger system. That is one thing I try to relay to people going down this road. You may thing 4awg wire will do you, but when you have to go and replace it with 2awg it gets expensive, and pure copper wire is not cheap.

Mine I will roll "most" of the batteries into the garage (attached to the house) and I can "power" the house.
 
Whilst dipping the feet into the pool, be cognizant up front of the real urge to upgrade over time.

Going in wanting 100 watts @ 120v to charge phones and a laptop can easily turn into 12K watts @240V for things like.. the electric range, HVAC, and electric hot water heaters. 😚

Meanwhile $1000s later. :confused:
 
Do you guys lean towards seperate systems or one to do it all? As in, a larger capacity setup to run a couple of freezers/essentials and something smaller for phone charging etc.

Portable power stations are good if you need a little power for camping. They are good to get your foot in the door for home back up also due to the lower cost.

But the moment you want the ability to run freezers and a fridge for multiple days on end with no sunshine the cost to performance ratio drops significantly compared to one that can be pieced together with individual components. This is largely due to the cost of battery storage, but also due to some features that even the larger expandable power stations can't deliver.

That said the larger "portables" with expandable battery banks are a good fit for those that don't want to DIY and need a plug and play solution.
 
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Portable power stations are good if you need a little power for camping. They are good to get your foot in the door for home back up also due to the lower cost.

But the moment you want the ability to run freezers and a fridge for multiple days on end with no sunshine the cost to performance ratio drops significantly compared to one that can be pieced together with individual components. This is largely due to the cost of battery storage, but also due to some features that even the larger expandable power stations can't deliver.

That said the larger "portables" with expandable battery banks are a good fit for those that don't want to DIY and need a plug and play solution.

You bring up a good point. There could be a bright sunny day, but you could very easy pull out more then you put in.

One of the really interesting things I learned is just where the "break even" point is. What I can run and only use what the solar panels are making. Again ohms law comes into play here. It is not much.

If you take out more then you put in, you will run dry.

My plan is to run off solar, during the night. Run on the gen when it is cloudy or whatever, and charge during the day recharge.

Your house really does not run "all the time". Things like a fridge pull very little unless they "kick on", and if you keep the door shut they don't come on all that often. You could stay on top of it.

This is where those "killawat" things come in handy. You can plug it into your fridge, leave it a week, and it will tell you just how much it really used. You can even put in your cost per Kwh and it will do that math for you. Telling you how much it cost to run that specific device for the week/month/whatever.

Those things are really handy for getting in the ball park of what you are really going to be using.
 
These "solar generators" are rated in watts.
View attachment 8313843

All a "solar generator" and I also hate the term, they generate nothing.....all they are is a battery and an inverter. The size of that battery and they.....type I guess I will say.....of the inverter will give the "capacity" of that specific box. You can see them above and how they are rated, 600w,200w, 4.8kWh.

They are all sized in watts. The battery is done in a voltage and amp hours, in these little pre made boxes you need to dig into the specs to see how they are powered. Are there two little 12v batteries in that box, are they wired in series or parallel, or is there one larger 24v battery.

Then just what you plug into them and what that draw is, is also going to tell you run time. Turning DC into AC is not a real efficient process, there will be loss, generally in heat. Most of the inverters have a "happy spot" where they are most efficient, generally around 70% of their stated max output.

Head over to DIY solar for some rundown on that.

If the OP is still here I can see one thing in the photo I linked that would likely make him look twice, and I will talk about that for a sec.
View attachment 8313844

Cool solar panels to recharge the thing, and the thing itself. That is everything I need. And you are right it is everything you need. Question is how long will that take. How do you figure that one out.

As likely one of the few on here that has hand built his own system and did not cut a check and have it done I can tell you the questions you need to ask.

What are the rated outputs of those solar panels.
On the back of your panels they should have a sticker with this info on it.

View attachment 8313846

This tells you everything you need to know. Open circuit is what you should see on your meter if you hook the panel + and - to your meter and it is a good sunny day. It should be in that ballpark. Everything here is going to be ballpark numbers. If it is half that on a sunny day you have issues. At this point I will say something about used. These things don't last forever, and as they age they will loose voltage. This is why people get rid of them. They still "work" but you might be getting 15v out of the thing and not 21. keep that in mind when looking at this stuff.

The only other that really "matter" are the rated readings. This panel will crank out 18v and 2.23 amps. Good ole Ohms law will tell us how many watts that is, and with that number vs your "generator" that will tell us how long it will take to "fill-er up". Again in perfect conditions.

So this one is dong 40w. Now your generator is 300, you can do the math on how many hours that is going to take.

Really in a nutshell that is about it.

Battery is another thing to look at Lifepo4 are popular, but they DO NOT like to get cold. Mine have a "heating pad" made for keeping the water tanks on motorhomes from freezing. You will destroy the batteries if you let them get to freezing. Another thing to think about if you live where it gets real cold.

Some panels do better in the heat. As they warm up they loose the ability to make their rated numbers, another thing to think about. If the ground is reflective they make two sided. The list goes on and on.

But don't charge this thing up and toss it in your shed to sit out the winter, it will not be happy come the spring and you need it for thunderstorms knocking out your power.
c9a1bc576dce51479934b5fb6eaac3f5.jpg
 
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Guys, sorry it took so long to get back. Thought I'd have more time over the last couple days but I got caught up in some family stuff. I'm in NE, so I get both hot and cold. The plan is to store in the house and the solar side is in the event of longish blackout/disaster to keep phones, radios, and batteries charged up. I feel like a newbie in the scope forum, cause I am on this stuff. I didn't want to accidently get a "Counter-Sniper" scope, not knowing what a piece of trash it is, and I don't know what I don't know. I really do appreciate all the great info here.
 
Done a little research over the past year on similar systems. Have a few Goal Zero products, they’ve been ok if not a little over priced.
Ended up with a small EcoFlow system that was being sold by EcoFlow on the Costco roadshow circuit. Road show locations can be found on Costcos website. Believe it was just over $600.
For what’s available now, Costco price was is a great deal.
 
Last edited:
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Guys, sorry it took so long to get back. Thought I'd have more time over the last couple days but I got caught up in some family stuff. I'm in NE, so I get both hot and cold. The plan is to store in the house and the solar side is in the event of longish blackout/disaster to keep phones, radios, and batteries charged up. I feel like a newbie in the scope forum, cause I am on this stuff. I didn't want to accidently get a "Counter-Sniper" scope, not knowing what a piece of trash it is, and I don't know what I don't know. I really do appreciate all the great info here.
I would suggest hop over to the DIY solar forum, they eat and breathe these things. They also own darn near everything made....sometimes buying just to tear it apart to see how the batteries are.

Poke your nose over there and have a look around, I am sure they can offer you a good suggestion and perhaps a promo code as well.
 
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Whatever you do, make sure you never use it. This way you have no idea how it works, how to set it up, or how to use it when needed.

Plus the battery will be dead so you'll only have as much power as the sun says you could have right then.


I still rely on fossil fuels for backup. Being an electrician and hobby gearhead, I have much more faith in keeping a generator running than I do in Chinese panels and circuit boards.

I do have fun stuff like an old idi diesel generator that requires zero electronics to run.
 
Whatever you do, make sure you never use it. This way you have no idea how it works, how to set it up, or how to use it when needed.

Plus the battery will be dead so you'll only have as much power as the sun says you could have right then.


I still rely on fossil fuels for backup. Being an electrician and hobby gearhead, I have much more faith in keeping a generator running than I do in Chinese panels and circuit boards.

I do have fun stuff like an old idi diesel generator that requires zero electronics to run.
I pulled a car out of storage about a year ago. It had sat for 4 years....full tank of gas.

Pumped it all out and refilled with fresh. Turn the key to on, the fuel pump hum, then stop. Crank and varroom.

The gas that came out of it would not even burn. As in you could not use it to start a fire. And the smell.

What is that saying on a long enough timeline..........

It all depends on how you are going to define SHTFF. Out for a month, not a real big deal. Out for a year or longer. I doubt "gas" of any kind will be all that easy to find.

All I am saying is it is good to have options. There is a place in the plan for this stuff.
 
I want to add a "solar generator" option to my solutions. I live in middle Ga - not too cold in winter, plenty of sunshine. Goal is to keep three freezers in garage and one refrigerator in the house functioning (food not spoil) during an extended power outage. I do not want to do a DIY solar/battery project. I want a turnkey solution from one company like Jackery or another vendor.

Jackery is running a deal with rebates. A Jackery Solar Generator 2000 Plus kit (6KWH + two 200w panels) is $6499 with an $1800 rebate or $4699 approximately. With the "no DIY" statement - is that a realistic option or should go to another brand or approach this differently?

Is "one solar (large) solar generator" for multiple freezers be a better approach or would multiple smaller solar generators (one per freezer/refrigerator) be better?

Appreciate any feedback (other than DIY). Thanks

PS - I live in rural GA with coop power - house is all electric except stove and fireplace are propane. I have 300 gallon propane tank and a "tri-fuel"(propane is one) portable generator for emergencies now.
 
This is an amazing deal right now if you want a solar generator. 7200Wh, 240V and Transfer switch and 120V/240v breakout cord for $6999 - $1700 instant coupon $5299 free shipping

Hell of a deal for this EcoFlow Delta Pro 2 setup


EF ECOFLOW 240V/7200Wh, 7200W Home Battery Backup Kit: 2 DELTA Pro with Double Voltage Hub with Transfer Switch, Lifepo4 Power Station, Electricity Generator for Home Use, Blackout, Emergency https://a.co/d/7mljWwV
 
Any feedback from the group on Jackery vs Ecoflow on reliability, ease of use?

Thanks for the tip padom!
 
I pulled a car out of storage about a year ago. It had sat for 4 years....full tank of gas.

Pumped it all out and refilled with fresh. Turn the key to on, the fuel pump hum, then stop. Crank and varroom.

The gas that came out of it would not even burn. As in you could not use it to start a fire. And the smell.

What is that saying on a long enough timeline..........

It all depends on how you are going to define SHTFF. Out for a month, not a real big deal. Out for a year or longer. I doubt "gas" of any kind will be all that easy to find.

All I am saying is it is good to have options. There is a place in the plan for this stuff.
Depends on how it's stored. I have a climate controlled garage mahal. Let a truck sit for 4 years once. Put fresh battery in and started right up.
 
Probably single larger is better.. it would handle the random high-load compressor startups better and even out the capacity against all the consumption devices. If you want something that stationary, I'd still go for a 'somewhat' build it yourself.. $4700 seems high for such low capacity storage and 400w of panels.
 
Depends on how it's stored. I have a climate controlled garage mahal. Let a truck sit for 4 years once. Put fresh battery in and started right up.

I think it also depends on the gas you put in it. Now when they go in for a nap they get booze free gas. A few of them get that as their normal diet, others like the car I am talking about here run just fine on the low grade booze/gas mix.

What I think is with that alcohol being hydroscopic it is sucking the water out of the air, and that is doing a number on the entire fuel system. I also think that it will eventually "fall out", the gas and alcohol will not be suspended any longer together and that can also lead to issues.

The car I was talking about is nothing real fancy, 1986 V6 Fiero, and it was "stored" in a barn, normal farm type barn. I did not have much of a mouse issue as I had mothballs all over the thing and around it, and made sure they are always there, so not a real issue, but when I opened up the gas cap the smell that came out of that thing was just enough to make you vomit.

I thought great now I have to drop the tank. The tank is in the middle of the car, actually a VERY safe place. And not something I was looking forward to doing.

So I just hotwired the pump (easy just jump two wires on the OBDC port, (this is version 1 of that system remember) and it pumped it out into two gas cans. I tried to use that for starting a fire on the burn pile and it would not go. I usually use diesel as it is a little more controllable, so I was ready to toss the rag and run, and nothing. A paper towel soaked in the stuff would not burn. Shocked the hell out of me.

I really enjoy the little car, it is fun. No power steering and it is heavy enough to be an issue. My left side is so weak anymore I was having a hell of a time parking it. I put some smaller tires on it and that helped out a great deal, but I do not care for the way it looks....oh well at least I can drive it.

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