Powder charging

[Khavic]

What do you use to measure the powder charges you load in your cases?

I am currently using a Chargemaster 1500. Looking to see if there is a better method to reduce SD.

 

[MtnCreek]

For bolt rifle I set a chargemaster to throw under and trickle up on a ohaus beam. It's not really any better than my old process using a measure and beam except with powder that would bridge (h1000).

Someone will probably be along shortly saying how much better their $$$$ scale is and they're probably right.

 

[Khavic]

Only beam scale I have is a 5-0-5 It does good, but I think I can only get within a 10th or so. Would love to be under a 10th. I thought there used to be a thread about a guy that could accurize a 5-0-5, but I looked earlier and could not find it.

 

[NH4X]

Consistent powder per round is just one part of the puzzle for low sd.Primer pockets and seating of primers is another part of puzzle. Bullet "constrition" is another part. Bass sizing,neck wall thickness ect. Every round needs to be as close "equal" that one can get to get low sd if thats the goal.Sorry for getting off topic.

 

[MarinePMI]

The next step up from a 1500 is an FX-120 Autotrickler. But it's a big step. It's well worth it IMHO, but not everyone wants to pay the entry fee.

 

[MtnCreek]

Only beam scale I have is a 5-0-5 It does good, but I think I can only get within a 10th or so. Would love to be under a 10th. I thought there used to be a thread about a guy that could accurize a 5-0-5, but I looked earlier and could not find it.

Probably Scott Parker. Haven't heard anything about him in a pretty good while. I think some folks were having issues.

 

[A&8's]

FX 120ii

 

[30cal user]

auto trickler with bluetooth is really nice

 

[skidhc]

Consistent powder per round is just one part of the puzzle for low sd.Primer pockets and seating of primers is another part of puzzle. Bullet "constrition" is another part. Bass sizing,neck wall thickness ect. Every round needs to be as close "equal" that one can get to get low sd if thats the goal.Sorry for getting off topic.

I agree - annealing is also key IMHO.

 

[Khavic]

Consistent powder per round is just one part of the puzzle for low sd.Primer pockets and seating of primers is another part of puzzle. Bullet "constrition" is another part. Bass sizing,neck wall thickness ect. Every round needs to be as close "equal" that one can get to get low sd if thats the goal.Sorry for getting off topic.

I already turn necks, uniform pockets, anneal every firing, seat with a Redding seat die that I honed the stem to match the bullets I'm using, chamfered all case mouths so the case doesn't mar the bullet and still I'm seeing 50+ fps ES over 10 rounds. Only thing left is powder charge.

Sometimes when I pull the pan to dump the powder it says - 626.5, -626.6 or - 626.7. I think I'm getting up to 3 tenths difference in powder charge.

 

[Gilly]

If you’re in a good node .3 powder shouldn’t make 50 FPS es IMO even with out of the box brass. I load lapua out of the box with no prep on a dillon full progressive and powder drop and don’t have es over 15-20. Something else might be going on.

 

[Steel head]

If you’re in a good node .3 powder shouldn’t make 50 FPS es IMO even with out of the box brass. I load lapua out of the box with no prep on a dillon full progressive and powder drop and don’t have es over 15-20. Something else might be going on.

 

[Khavic]

If you’re in a good node .3 powder shouldn’t make 50 FPS es IMO even with out of the box brass. I load lapua out of the box with no prep on a dillon full progressive and powder drop and don’t have es over 15-20. Something else might be going on.

It's a 243AI pushing 105gr over 47gr H1000. Second firing on the brass. I didn't bother to chrono the first firing. Maybe the cases are just finishing their forming?

 

[Gilly]

Have you tried a different powder like 4350 or 4831? Depending on barrel length maybe your not getting 100% powder burn on h1000 causing inconsistencies? I can run it on quick load tonight and see if you provide a few rifle details

 

[1moaoff]

Fx 120
Dual charge masters
Progressive

 

[Doom]

Are you a using a pan that weighs 626 grains?

I doubt you are getting .3 gr difference. Yes, the weight without the pan does very at times but at least part of that is the scale dampening time when the weight changes by large amounts.
I ran a test last week when my weight less pan drifted by 1/10, dumped the load, replaced the pan, zeroed and weighed again. The load weighed the same to the 1/10 grain.

 

[A.Huggy]

I think there's something else going on here.

I use a chargemaster lite and usually get SD's around 6 and ES <15 for 10 rounds. If you are not able to get to single digit SD's with a chargemaster, there may be something going on elsewhere in your process.

Sometimes when I pull the pan to dump the powder it says - 626.5, -626.6 or - 626.7. I think I'm getting up to 3 tenths difference in powder charge.

This part concerns me. You shouldn't see your zero walking.
A few things to check:

• Let your scale warm up
• Calibrate after warming up
• Make sure the scale is on a solid & level bench that no one is leaning up against or breathing on

 

[Dthomas3523]

How are you measuring your neck tension?

 

[Khavic]

Have you tried a different powder like 4350 or 4831? Depending on barrel length maybe your not getting 100% powder burn on h1000 causing inconsistencies? I can run it on quick load tonight and see if you provide a few rifle details

I have quickload and the February 2020 update with 243AI in it. I definitely am not burning all the powder. It's around 90% burn rate. Looks like Hybrid 100V might be a viable option to get to, or near depending on where the node is at, 100% burn rate.

 

[Khavic]

How are you measuring your neck tension?

I don't have a tool to measure neck tension. I only take enough off the neck to uniform them. I use a Sinclair neck turning tool and just barely skim anything off. Since switching to Peterson SRP brass I rarely take any material off at all. I started out using RP and the necks were pretty inconsistent for brass thickness.

 

[Khavic]

I think there's something else going on here.

I use a chargemaster lite and usually get SD's around 6 and ES <15 for 10 rounds. If you are not able to get to single digit SD's with a chargemaster, there may be something going on elsewhere in your process.



This part concerns me. You shouldn't see your zero walking.
A few things to check:

• Let your scale warm up
• Calibrate after warming up
• Make sure the scale is on a solid & level bench that no one is leaning up against or breathing on

My scale stays on. I never turn it off. I keep my shop around 68 degrees year round. Do you think 68 might be too cold?

My bench is stable and I'm very careful with airflow on the pan.

 

[Khavic]

Are you a using a pan that weighs 626 grains?

I doubt you are getting .3 gr difference. Yes, the weight without the pan does very at times but at least part of that is the scale dampening time when the weight changes by large amounts.
I ran a test last week when my weight less pan drifted by 1/10, dumped the load, replaced the pan, zeroed and weighed again. The load weighed the same to the 1/10 grain.

Yes, my pan is an Area 419 pan with the handle on it. I'm seriously considering taking the handle off. Maybe that extra weight hanging over the side of the scale plate is causing issues?

 

[Gilly]

I have quickload and the February 2020 update with 243AI in it. I definitely am not burning all the powder. It's around 90% burn rate. Looks like Hybrid 100V might be a viable option to get to, or near depending on where the node is at, 100% burn rate.

I think this is part of your issue. 90% burn is very low. I’ve seen quick load show 98% and I can find kernels in my suppressor. In your case if one round burns 92% and another 88% with a 90% average that’s 4% range, for arguments sake let’s say that’s fairly high correlation to % variance on muzzle velocity. 4% of 3200 is 128 fps. I’d switch powders personally with all the work you’re already doing on lid process and see if that fixes ES so you’re not trying to work bugs out where they aren’t hiding.

 

[Khavic]

I think I found the culprit. Dthomas3523 asked about neck tension and it got me thinking. 47gr is a lightly compressed load. I put 10 rounds together last night and measured each one, with a comperator, off the ogive. I wrote the measurement down and left them. Went out and measured them again today and a couple had pushed out a few thousandths. Took them as they set and went to the range. Sure as shit, the longer ones were faster. Only had 35fps ES today, but since I am running these loads so close to the lands and have light neck tension they are moving inside the case neck. Still going to switch to a faster powder and get away from the compressed loads, but wanted to come back and say thanks to you guys for helping me wicker out what was going on.

 

[1moaoff]

And knowledge has been imparted once again!

Now go shoot!

 

[Precision Underground]

I already turn necks, uniform pockets, anneal every firing, seat with a Redding seat die that I honed the stem to match the bullets I'm using, chamfered all case mouths so the case doesn't mar the bullet and still I'm seeing 50+ fps ES over 10 rounds. Only thing left is powder charge.

Sometimes when I pull the pan to dump the powder it says - 626.5, -626.6 or - 626.7. I think I'm getting up to 3 tenths difference in powder charge.

I explained this in another thread. The scale drifting when you remove the pan is irrelevant. The measurement is not drifting. If I line up 500 balls and want to count 42 of them it doesn’t matter where I start. As long as I can count 42 balls it doesn’t matter if I start at ball 125 or ball 230. The amount that I count is still the same. I use a CM for everything and have checked it hundreds of times with a beam scale. It’s very accurate if you don’t do anything to throw it off. What kind of brass are you using? Where is your charge in relation to your tested max charge?

 

[skidhc]

I think I found the culprit. Dthomas3523 asked about neck tension and it got me thinking. 47gr is a lightly compressed load. I put 10 rounds together last night and measured each one, with a comperator, off the ogive. I wrote the measurement down and left them. Went out and measured them again today and a couple had pushed out a few thousandths. Took them as they set and went to the range. Sure as shit, the longer ones were faster. Only had 35fps ES today, but since I am running these loads so close to the lands and have light neck tension they are moving inside the case neck. Still going to switch to a faster powder and get away from the compressed loads, but wanted to come back and say thanks to you guys for helping me wicker out what was going on.

Nice! Glad you found the issue! Always a good day when you figure out and resolve a problem!

 

[Khavic]

484yds. I'll take it. Wish I'd had a tape measure with me. You can get a rough idea though since those impacts are from 6mm bullet. I'm guessing 2" center to center. Amazing what a different result you get when you start every projectile with the ogive the same distance off the lands.

ES 20 with SD of 7. Good enough for the girls I go with.

First round hits on 12"x14" steel out to 894 today.

 

[Khavic]

I explained this in another thread. The scale drifting when you remove the pan is irrelevant. The measurement is not drifting. If I line up 500 balls and want to count 42 of them it doesn’t matter where I start. As long as I can count 42 balls it doesn’t matter if I start at ball 125 or ball 230. The amount that I count is still the same. I use a CM for everything and have checked it hundreds of times with a beam scale. It’s very accurate if you don’t do anything to throw it off. What kind of brass are you using? Where is your charge in relation to your tested max charge?

The scale drifting may be effectually irrelevant, but it sure does not inspire confidence when an unexpected problem pops up.

 

[Khavic]

Pretty happy with performance now.