Looking for the best powder for a 20" barrel that not too temp..sensitive and accurate out to 1K. Playing with BL-C-(2) for now with 168gr(A-Max) looks promising, want to move up to 178gr A-Max. I also have a pound of CFE-223 haven't tried that yet, just loaded some 155gr Palma's. If i was going to stick to one weight bullet like the 178GR A-Max, what powder should i be looking at? RL-17...Varget...IMR4064... What?? Will be adding up your votes and buy the powder to try. Thanks guys
- Thread starter Doeboy
- Start date
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
You can't go wrong with RL-15 or Varget. Vargets being a little more temp stable and RL-15 having a little more velocity. Cfe-223 is good but only for the lighter rounds, Varget or RL for the 175or 178. Take a look at the nosler custom comp. bullets they are the only thing I shoot in my 308 anymore and I've tried a bunch of projectiles and I keep comming back to nosler.
You can't go wrong with RL-15 or Varget. Vargets being a little more temp stable and RL-15 having a little more velocity. Cfe-223 is good but only for the lighter rounds, Varget or RL for the 175or 178. Take a look at the nosler custom comp. bullets they are the only thing I shoot in my 308 anymore and I've tried a bunch of projectiles and I keep comming back to nosler.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
Scout,
You have your facts all mixed up.
CFE223 gives higher velocities for any given bullet compared to the powders you mentioned...look up hodgon's data center. and also do a search on here.
Scout,
You have your facts all mixed up.
CFE223 gives higher velocities for any given bullet compared to the powders you mentioned...look up hodgon's data center. and also do a search on here.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doeboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that not too temp..sensitive </div></div>
You are going to want varget for that, but dont expect great things with it and 208's unless you have a very long barrel... it will get 168's and 178's going nicely though. CFE-223 will throw/meter with ease but its not an extreme hodgdon powder.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doeboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that not too temp..sensitive </div></div>
You are going to want varget for that, but dont expect great things with it and 208's unless you have a very long barrel... it will get 168's and 178's going nicely though. CFE-223 will throw/meter with ease but its not an extreme hodgdon powder.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
Be sure to check out Hornady 178 HPBT, better BC than any of the projectiles you listed...inexpensive too. Varget does well if you want temp stability but only 2,560fps in my gun with 43.8gr & the 178s, with 49.5gr RL-17 i'm @ 2,700fps accurately through a 22'' 12 twist...I don't really have to worry about temp swings way down south.
Be sure to check out Hornady 178 HPBT, better BC than any of the projectiles you listed...inexpensive too. Varget does well if you want temp stability but only 2,560fps in my gun with 43.8gr & the 178s, with 49.5gr RL-17 i'm @ 2,700fps accurately through a 22'' 12 twist...I don't really have to worry about temp swings way down south.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
I have had good luck with H-4895 using both 155 and 175 grain bullets.
Nervous
I have had good luck with H-4895 using both 155 and 175 grain bullets.
Nervous
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
+1 for Varget
+1 for Varget
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
I have had great results with PowerPro 2000 MR and the 178 and 208 Amax.
I have had great results with PowerPro 2000 MR and the 178 and 208 Amax.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
I really liked IMR 4064 in my LTR.
I still like it in my current 308.
I really liked IMR 4064 in my LTR.
I still like it in my current 308.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
I got the 175 gr SMK's to 2650 fps with Varget out of my 20" .308. Shoots out to 1350 for me.
I got the 175 gr SMK's to 2650 fps with Varget out of my 20" .308. Shoots out to 1350 for me.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
relax scout, you dint say that CFE223 worked with lighter bullets in YOUR rifle initially.
Back to the OP:
1. Best accuracy with a given bullet & powder will depend on your rifle.
2. Best velocities will be achieved with (RL-17, CFE223/Alliant 2000MR, RE-15, Varget) in that order.
3. The best projectiles for wind drift wil be as follows (208AMAX, 185 Bergers, 178/175, 168s, 155s).
Notwithstanding my post, you'll still have to go and shoot to find out what your rilfe likes.
relax scout, you dint say that CFE223 worked with lighter bullets in YOUR rifle initially.
Back to the OP:
1. Best accuracy with a given bullet & powder will depend on your rifle.
2. Best velocities will be achieved with (RL-17, CFE223/Alliant 2000MR, RE-15, Varget) in that order.
3. The best projectiles for wind drift wil be as follows (208AMAX, 185 Bergers, 178/175, 168s, 155s).
Notwithstanding my post, you'll still have to go and shoot to find out what your rilfe likes.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scout,
You have your facts all mixed up.
CFE223 gives higher velocities for any given bullet compared to the powders you mentioned...look up hodgon's data center. and also do a search on here. </div></div> There are some guys testing CFE223 in this forum and they are saying it's temp..sensitive with the 168gr pills and up, but what they are reporting is that at 80+degrees it gives high velocity,Hmm? Does that mean it temp/sensitive?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scout,
You have your facts all mixed up.
CFE223 gives higher velocities for any given bullet compared to the powders you mentioned...look up hodgon's data center. and also do a search on here. </div></div> There are some guys testing CFE223 in this forum and they are saying it's temp..sensitive with the 168gr pills and up, but what they are reporting is that at 80+degrees it gives high velocity,Hmm? Does that mean it temp/sensitive?
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GardDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got the 175 gr SMK's to 2650 fps with Varget out of my 20" .308. Shoots out to 1350 for me.</div></div>
That's pretty quick...How much Varget are you running with the 175's? What type of brass?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GardDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got the 175 gr SMK's to 2650 fps with Varget out of my 20" .308. Shoots out to 1350 for me.</div></div>
That's pretty quick...How much Varget are you running with the 175's? What type of brass?
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
Doeboy,
I think the powder is temperature sensitive based on a few anecdotal posts on here...nevertheless, the degree of temperature sensitivity, and practical accuracy effects are not clear...the powder is simply too new.
Scout,
the search button is your friend. Do it here on the hide or on google.
Doeboy,
I think the powder is temperature sensitive based on a few anecdotal posts on here...nevertheless, the degree of temperature sensitivity, and practical accuracy effects are not clear...the powder is simply too new.
Scout,
the search button is your friend. Do it here on the hide or on google.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
I am getting 2710 with varget 45gr and 175smk. I have a 26" tune.
I am getting 2710 with varget 45gr and 175smk. I have a 26" tune.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
Tx Flyboy,
With your extensive experience regarding these powders, show me a group with a 175 and cfe 223 that's worth a shit. Not saying its not a good powder but I have yet to see any benefits of using it on 168's and up. Some people learn things from real life experience not google!
Tx Flyboy,
With your extensive experience regarding these powders, show me a group with a 175 and cfe 223 that's worth a shit. Not saying its not a good powder but I have yet to see any benefits of using it on 168's and up. Some people learn things from real life experience not google!
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
Relax Scout.
I did not mean to come off like an ass...seriously.
there are a number of folks on here that have shot and posted groups with CFE223.
Relax Scout.
I did not mean to come off like an ass...seriously.
there are a number of folks on here that have shot and posted groups with CFE223.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
I was getting good results with 2000MR and the 178HPBT until I got a bad lot of them, I sent Hornady 10 bullets for testing, I was getting diagonal stringing. I would not give Varget a vote, RL15, DEFINITELY!!
I was getting good results with 2000MR and the 178HPBT until I got a bad lot of them, I sent Hornady 10 bullets for testing, I was getting diagonal stringing. I would not give Varget a vote, RL15, DEFINITELY!!
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
Was reading the reload (Depot) section (308's) and looks like RL15 is the Big Winner, i'm going to have to buy a # of that for 175-208gr projectiles
. For the 155gr i'm going to give CFE223 and varget a try sense i already got a # of it. Thanks guys
Was reading the reload (Depot) section (308's) and looks like RL15 is the Big Winner, i'm going to have to buy a # of that for 175-208gr projectiles
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
Varget is the tried and true stand by. Others have mentioned RL-15, but I would go with AR-COMP which is a more temp stable reformulated RL-15 instead. You could also look at 8208XBR.
Varget is the tried and true stand by. Others have mentioned RL-15, but I would go with AR-COMP which is a more temp stable reformulated RL-15 instead. You could also look at 8208XBR.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
I have used both Varget and RL 15 with the .308. For stability with good velocity Varget really is the way to go. I shot alot out in NM and shot from 30 degrees to over 110 and never even got a difference in Velocity or POI! RL 15 was very accurate and faster, but had issues with both POI and velocity when the temps changed.
Using 42.5 gr of Varget with the 178 AMAX and HPBT I would get around 2620 and with the 175 SMK same pouder charge I would get about 2650. Not much difference and about 3/8" difference in group impact!
Varget is good stuff and as long as you work with your gun and test it you can make most any powder and bullet work... Just take the time to do it right.
BTW, I was able to run my rifle (Savage 10FP, 24" BBL) upto 46 gr of Varget with no pressure issues and 2750 fps, but Ladder testing did better with 42.5gr. So that is where I stayed.
Good Luck and Good Shooting!!
I have used both Varget and RL 15 with the .308. For stability with good velocity Varget really is the way to go. I shot alot out in NM and shot from 30 degrees to over 110 and never even got a difference in Velocity or POI! RL 15 was very accurate and faster, but had issues with both POI and velocity when the temps changed.
Using 42.5 gr of Varget with the 178 AMAX and HPBT I would get around 2620 and with the 175 SMK same pouder charge I would get about 2650. Not much difference and about 3/8" difference in group impact!
Varget is good stuff and as long as you work with your gun and test it you can make most any powder and bullet work... Just take the time to do it right.
BTW, I was able to run my rifle (Savage 10FP, 24" BBL) upto 46 gr of Varget with no pressure issues and 2750 fps, but Ladder testing did better with 42.5gr. So that is where I stayed.
Good Luck and Good Shooting!!
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
I had better luck with cfe223 than the 2000mr. cfe does give better velocities especially when running 208amax at mag length. rl-15 has given the best accuracy. i couldnt get varget to work for my gun. 8208 didnt work for the heavier pills
I had better luck with cfe223 than the 2000mr. cfe does give better velocities especially when running 208amax at mag length. rl-15 has given the best accuracy. i couldnt get varget to work for my gun. 8208 didnt work for the heavier pills
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
gpz750,
A few questions for you:
1. What rifle, barrel length did you run your tests in?
2. What velocities did you get out of 208AMAX at maglength? In which rifle/configuration?
3. What is the velocity diff btw 2000MR & CFE-223?
4. What sort of accuracy difference did you see between RL-15 vs CFE223 & 2000MR?
Rick234,
1. Could you describe your POI shift with the temp sensitive powder?
2. What happens to your accuracy as the temperature climbed?
3. I'm in a similar boat, (i shoot highpower, and my ammo will be exposed to the sun/heat while i'm the pit. I'm thinking of bringing a cooler (with ice of course)to store my ammo in and only take out the rounds right when they are needed.)
Thanks in advance.
gpz750,
A few questions for you:
1. What rifle, barrel length did you run your tests in?
2. What velocities did you get out of 208AMAX at maglength? In which rifle/configuration?
3. What is the velocity diff btw 2000MR & CFE-223?
4. What sort of accuracy difference did you see between RL-15 vs CFE223 & 2000MR?
Rick234,
1. Could you describe your POI shift with the temp sensitive powder?
2. What happens to your accuracy as the temperature climbed?
3. I'm in a similar boat, (i shoot highpower, and my ammo will be exposed to the sun/heat while i'm the pit. I'm thinking of bringing a cooler (with ice of course)to store my ammo in and only take out the rounds right when they are needed.)
Thanks in advance.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
Since there seems to be no love for 4064 in this thread I'll continue pushing it.
I've used IMR 4064 for years in 308 with 168-175's.
A few weeks ago I got the chance to shoot it at long range with the 185 Bergers, 3 shots at 1200 yards:
42.2 grains, Lapua 1x brass, CCI BR2.
I use a RCBS Chargemaster so the longer/difficult granules are not an issue.
44.2 in Winchester brass seated out over 3"(to the lands i na factory Remington chambe)r with the 178 AMAX or 175 Sierra was a hammer in my LTR and my friends CZ 550.
His throat was shorter so the AMAX's were a jam fit into the rifling.
That being said with 155's the 4895/8208 XBR class is a better mousetrap with a 20" barrel.
Since there seems to be no love for 4064 in this thread I'll continue pushing it.
I've used IMR 4064 for years in 308 with 168-175's.
A few weeks ago I got the chance to shoot it at long range with the 185 Bergers, 3 shots at 1200 yards:
42.2 grains, Lapua 1x brass, CCI BR2.
I use a RCBS Chargemaster so the longer/difficult granules are not an issue.
44.2 in Winchester brass seated out over 3"(to the lands i na factory Remington chambe)r with the 178 AMAX or 175 Sierra was a hammer in my LTR and my friends CZ 550.
His throat was shorter so the AMAX's were a jam fit into the rifling.
That being said with 155's the 4895/8208 XBR class is a better mousetrap with a 20" barrel.
Re: Powder for 175-208 gr projectiles for 308!
TX_FlyBoy,
My biggest change with the RL 15 was the POI shift. I was able to get good accuracy, but I had to have multiple Zero's depending on the Temp. I tested RL 15 and Varget side by side and never had a POI shift with the Varget. RL 15 shot hotter in the warm weather and made it to where my Max loads (in Winter) were almost too hot for Summertime shooting.
I got great accuracy with both powders, just didn't like having to change my Zero to shoot at a different time. My POI with the RL 15 could be between 1/2 and 1" depending on the temps. My Range temps were between 25-30 in the winter and 100+ during summer testing. Shooting in between was what was frustrating part because with about every 20-25 degree temp change my POI changed.
If you don't mind having to change your zero and keep track of what is going on then RL 15 is a great powder. I just chose Varget for the reliability of always burning the same no matter what the weather was.
Older snipers will tell you that they used to warm up their rounds to shoot them by leaving them in the sun or putting them inside their clothes to get the rounds to shoot the way that they were sighted in for. I do not know that I would really bring a cooler to put them in or just leave them out in the sun as long as possible or heat them up in a pocket or something. The sun and a pocket are free! Ice costs Money!!! LOL!! More money for more Powder!!!
Good Shooting!
TX_FlyBoy,
My biggest change with the RL 15 was the POI shift. I was able to get good accuracy, but I had to have multiple Zero's depending on the Temp. I tested RL 15 and Varget side by side and never had a POI shift with the Varget. RL 15 shot hotter in the warm weather and made it to where my Max loads (in Winter) were almost too hot for Summertime shooting.
I got great accuracy with both powders, just didn't like having to change my Zero to shoot at a different time. My POI with the RL 15 could be between 1/2 and 1" depending on the temps. My Range temps were between 25-30 in the winter and 100+ during summer testing. Shooting in between was what was frustrating part because with about every 20-25 degree temp change my POI changed.
If you don't mind having to change your zero and keep track of what is going on then RL 15 is a great powder. I just chose Varget for the reliability of always burning the same no matter what the weather was.
Older snipers will tell you that they used to warm up their rounds to shoot them by leaving them in the sun or putting them inside their clothes to get the rounds to shoot the way that they were sighted in for. I do not know that I would really bring a cooler to put them in or just leave them out in the sun as long as possible or heat them up in a pocket or something. The sun and a pocket are free! Ice costs Money!!! LOL!! More money for more Powder!!!
Good Shooting!
Similar threads
