Allrighty guys..was wanting an opinion from yall. Who hear would debate that if you are running a charge on one of the short action 6.5's or 308..roughly 40ish grains of powder that 3 to 5 kernels of powder(.1 grain to .15) actually matters down range(1000 yards.) If so, how much? Anyone ever tested taking a charge masters charge VS throwing a charge on the chargemaster and putting that charge on a much better scale and trickling up to the nearest kernel?
- Thread starter TexasMade
- Start date
It doesn't matter down range.
I use an old Belding & Mull thrower with tubes. Once I set the tube I throw my charge and check it on my Lyman beam. If I am between 0 and 1 I throw it, if I am over 1 I dump it back in the hopper and re-throw. The B&M works very well with ball and flake powders and it is so rarely off 0 I don't even weigh them. It is a little more finicky with stick.
I use an old Belding & Mull thrower with tubes. Once I set the tube I throw my charge and check it on my Lyman beam. If I am between 0 and 1 I throw it, if I am over 1 I dump it back in the hopper and re-throw. The B&M works very well with ball and flake powders and it is so rarely off 0 I don't even weigh them. It is a little more finicky with stick.
I use a chargemaster for all of my long range loads.
It is my opinion that any benefit conferred by trickling to one grain is overwhelmed by case variations, wind, aiming errors, and fundamentals -- rest, hold, trigger, shoulder, position, etc. Let me put it another way. If there is a measurable group size difference between charges trickled to 1 grain and those thrown on the Chargemaster then the shooter has eliminated variations caused by all of those other factors. That is not me. Your mileage may vary.
If you follow the OCW technique, you are supposed to find a powder charge that delivers the same group size and point of impact even if the charge varies plus ot minus 0.1 to 0.15 grains. I tested loads on my Chargemaster. I had it measure 50 charges then I weighed it on a scale with 0.02 grain resolution (Denver Instrument). Graphic attached.
It is my opinion that any benefit conferred by trickling to one grain is overwhelmed by case variations, wind, aiming errors, and fundamentals -- rest, hold, trigger, shoulder, position, etc. Let me put it another way. If there is a measurable group size difference between charges trickled to 1 grain and those thrown on the Chargemaster then the shooter has eliminated variations caused by all of those other factors. That is not me. Your mileage may vary.
If you follow the OCW technique, you are supposed to find a powder charge that delivers the same group size and point of impact even if the charge varies plus ot minus 0.1 to 0.15 grains. I tested loads on my Chargemaster. I had it measure 50 charges then I weighed it on a scale with 0.02 grain resolution (Denver Instrument). Graphic attached.
Attachments
I don't have a Chargemaster. But I do have a Harrell's Premium powder measure. Unless I'm shooting 400+ yards I never weigh charges. For longer ranges or working up loads I throw a grain or so light and trickle up to desired weight. I'm getting old, weak and lazy these days. I don't shoot longer ranges much any more. When I decide on a charge, I generally throw it straight from the measure.
Good luck & stay safe.
Victor
Good luck & stay safe.
Victor
Running a chargemaster, shooting under .5 MOA with a factory rifle. Haven't had any issues. Wind, humidy and temp have all added issues at the range.
I have an original Culver measure -- the inspiration for Harrells. If I can throw a fine powder and get consistent loads, I will throw them -- for example, H322 or Vit 133. But I shoot 4064 in my .308 and 7828 in my 300 WM. Those are big chunky stick powders and if I throw it, I can easily get a 2 GRAIN variance. I would prefer to throw but my powder choice makes that impractical. Your mileage may vary.
to answer your question directly; take your normal load and chronograph it, then load your load +.5g and -.5g. This will give you velocity for +/- .5g, or a 1g spread and divide by 10 for what .1. Provide you developed a load with a ladder or OCW type of test, the effects of the thrown powder variations will have less of an effect than it could. Any variation in the amount of powder, weight of brass, bullet etc. will have a direct impact on velocity and the ballistics. For all practical purposes we sort, weigh and measure to reduce or eliminate the heavy and light so as to reduce or eliminate the high or low shot. These variations in velocity will effect high velocity rounds less than low velocity rounds and these effects are magnified as you move back from say 300 to 600 to 1000 yds. I weigh powder when I load my .223 ammo for 300 and 600 yds because I shoot RL15 and with an off throw high or low it could be as much as .15-.2g (this is with a harrels on a bad day), or possibly a .3-.4g spread or about 50-75 FPS. It would be bad to shoot a sighter with a "hot" round, adjust from that and then shoot low etc. With .308 or some of the larger ctgs, you are loading 31-44g of powder so that same .4g will have less of an effect on pressure and velocity. If you ever get the notion to load some of the small .17's, then you are almost forced to weigh everything unless you are shooting ball powder.
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