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Rifle Scopes PR vs. S&B

Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pongnukl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's pretty poor form when you won't support your own countrymen. Premier make a solid product that's every bit as good as an S&B, backed by a lifetime warranty that's still around $500 cheaper than a comparable S&B. I see no down side in buying a premier, as the more that do the more your supporting your fellow Americans in such harsh financial times. </div></div>


Every bit as good as an S&B? Really... You're comparing a scope that has known tracking issues, a parallax knob that you can't set across the elevation range, and knob issues to a scope that has been proven on military rifles all around the world.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiight....</div></div>

Gee, I should go ditch my 5x25 now. My parallax works fine, across all ranges, tracks perfectly, and doesn't have a knob issue...but shit, I'm still gonna dump it. Thanks for the heads up!
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

netranger....the scopes that had these issues were the early model 5-25s. Not the newer production ones, but myself personally have seen 3 Premiers go tits up. (2) 5-25s and (1) 3-15
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Deadly, I know man. There's a guy on here, ahhem, that had a reticle go sideways. Guess there wasn't enough epoxy or it wasn't cured. My 5x25 is a late tube, December 09.

I am no expert, but for me, I really think my money was well spent, of course, at below 09 prices for a brand new 5x25. I really like the flat type II anodizing, and the texture, on top of everything else. The Gen 2 XR is great, and I really dig the illumination. Sure, I have no para markings, but crap, who needs 'em anyway. Adjust, look, adjust, fire.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">tits </div></div>

Did someone say tits???
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can get S&Bs with the Gen 2 xr. </div></div>

Those are 1300 more than I paid for my PR, there are 3 of us who own 5-25 PR's, none of the 3 wonders with magnification changes, all 3 track perfectly, yes we checked, the paralex works, but all 3 of us dislike the lack of marking, which the new ones have. I really find it distasteful all the bashing that PR has received, then throw in that fuck stick writer posting on BARFCOM that they closed there doors, which was'nt true, PR is not a perfect, Chris is not perfect, but he employs Americans who need there jobs, knock it off! </div></div>

Ya know cobra I dont see any where I was coming down on Premier.I simply stated my preference having owned both.Then pointing out S&B offered the same reticle choice.And as far as a American company that employs Americans and they need to keep their jobs....You may think about that when you jump on every Leupold thread and mother fuck the shit out of them.But maybe those Americans don't need their jobs.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Completely happy with my PR 3-15. It tracks, holds its zero through magnification changes and performs as expected. I'd buy again if I could do it in the same price range as my 2009 purchase.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

To be fair to Cobra, Leupold is not in any danger of being affected by what's posted on this forum. PR is far more likely to be impacted by the views and whims of the tactical optics buying public (which is a small community all things considered) than Leupold is. Has not a common complaint been that Leupold actually ignores this community in fact?
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Not the point EH he stated an American company with American jobs that they need.Per his view we should buy it for no other reason the being USA made and USA employee's.I simply asked if for some reason the standard does not apply to Leupold.

 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Lizardkin308, pretty odd that after all the comments posted below by you about premier, that now you have become a Premier basher. Every company including S&B will have scopes that break. If your premier breaks, premier will undoubtably fix it.

Here's one of your posts from 06/01/09

"That's funny as none have been turned back in to my knowledge (spoke with Jerry last week) and one would think that you would send it back to get fixed if you spent 2500 on a scope... Also to say the glass isn't that bright, yeah ok... I've had a TON of people look through my S&B's, my Nightforces, my USO and anything else i have, and the Premier is ALWAYS picked as the brightest."


Another from 11/02/09 in regards to PH 3-15x

"Mine's tracked like a micrometer. Never had a tracking issue ever."

Here another from 10/30/09

"No trades at this time, sorry. I'm trying to upgrade to the Heritage 5-25. This has the Gen II mil dot."

Another from 10/30/09
Only reason I'm selling mine is I want to get the 5-25 Heritage!

Well the info didn't come from Jerry, it came from a shooting buddy who was curious and knew I was a fan of Premier and was looking to buy another soon. Hence I asked, didn't accuse...

Another 11/11/09

"I just sold my 3-15 so I can upgrade to a 5-25. I wouldn't be looking to buy a 5-25 if I wasn't happy now would I?"

11/12/09

"Sure I loved the glass in my PH, but the fact that I could run it all the way out to 1100 yards and back to 100 and my zero didn't change was my favorite part."

So lizzardking308 it appears you were either full of it before or full of it now and I'm guessing it's now.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pongnukl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's pretty poor form when you won't support your own countrymen. Premier make a solid product that's every bit as good as an S&B, backed by a lifetime warranty that's still around $500 cheaper than a comparable S&B. I see no down side in buying a premier, as the more that do the more your supporting your fellow Americans in such harsh financial times. </div></div>

fwiw & imho,
A "lifetime warranty" backed by what? The assumption that the company will be around in 10 years to affect the repair? As a Schmidt Bender Pimp I'm not trying to come across as the unbiased and disinterested party. That said I look at most companies who are unproven with a wait and see attitude. The facts as I see them fwiw, imho, and afaik:

1. Premier Reticles, Ltd was the late Dick Thomas. I admired him greatly and miss him as well. His quality control was superb. To be bluntly honest I experienced $400 Leupolds that came from him with better Quality Control than $2800 Schmidt Benders that were assembled by Premier when Schmidt was their only meal ticket.

2. You are dealing with a company that has, more or less, dealt with three completely different product lines in the last 5 or 6 years. Lack of warranty support on Premier Modified Leupolds has been documented on this board. Schmidt Bender is happy to be split with Premier and will back up their own warranty. Can the same be said of the Heritage Line?

3. I'm impressed with Premier's Latest Scopes. If they are still on the market in another five years I will consider spending the money...

4. Dunno on supporting your fellow Americans. Parts are sourced from all over the world from MANY companies. Look at Leupold. They had to quietly take "Made in USA" off their scopes dues to the percentage or foreign parts.

I personally think, fwiw, that both PR AND Schmidt Bender are both overpriced. That said between the two Schmidt Bender has been around since 1957' and this version of Premier since 2007'?

The above is not an attack on Premier but rather personal observation. Take it for what you paid for it. Disregard paid pundits and do your own research. Hands on is best, however, many customers don't have that option.

Remove the emotional component from your decision making process. It rarely is your friend...imho and fwiw.

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Matt you are somewhat right in this regards," A "lifetime warranty" backed by what? The assumption that the company will be around in 10 years to affect the repair?". But in saying that if people don't buy it for that reason alone, then they won't be around in 10 years. Just because S&B has been around forever doesn't mean they won't go belly up, there is a lesser risk of course, but still a risk. Just think if ford had gone totally belly up then all the ford owners wouldn't have a warranty worth the paper it was written on and how many saw ford going into such a dire financial situation. Any company can fail, I say get behind premier so they are here in 10 years time.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

I dont think Matt is bashing, he is stating the obvious. And I think he made a good point on the Lifetime Warranty part. PR did offer a Lifetime Warranty on the modded Leupold scopes, well we all know how that played out. Im with Matt on this one, if they are still around in 3-5 years, Ill eat my words and buy a PR. Ive never been big on paying $2-$3K to be a beta tester, there are plenty of others in the world to do that for me.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Hello all, I am new here.

I talked to the folks at Premier in Germany at the IWC show. They claim that they hired away some of S&Bs engineers and there optics are new and improved compared to S&B. I have shot with both, both are nice. I will stick with S&B from now on.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

So how is Premier supposed to fix Leupold scopes if Leupold has cut them off completely from parts or any other support?

I have never experienced any of the issues mentioned with my Premier, especially having it hold zero through magnification changes. It just amazes me how it's always the same 2 or 3 people every time "Premier" or "PH" appears in a thread that just have to jump in and bash the scopes and the company. I'm not saying that Premier hasn't had problems. They could learn a lot from companies like Vortex about good customer relations. But it's always the same-old, same-old.

As for adopting a new product or technology or worrying about whether a company will be around to support it down the road: That's a risk customers take in any industry, but if nobody ever did we'd still be firing flintlocks and literally worrying about keeping our powder dry.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pongnukl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lizardkin308, pretty odd that after all the comments posted below by you about premier, that now you have become a Premier basher. Every company including S&B will have scopes that break. If your premier breaks, premier will undoubtably fix it.

Here's one of your posts from 06/01/09

"That's funny as none have been turned back in to my knowledge (spoke with Jerry last week) and one would think that you would send it back to get fixed if you spent 2500 on a scope... Also to say the glass isn't that bright, yeah ok... I've had a TON of people look through my S&B's, my Nightforces, my USO and anything else i have, and the Premier is ALWAYS picked as the brightest."


Another from 11/02/09 in regards to PH 3-15x

"Mine's tracked like a micrometer. Never had a tracking issue ever."

Here another from 10/30/09

"No trades at this time, sorry. I'm trying to upgrade to the Heritage 5-25. This has the Gen II mil dot."

Another from 10/30/09
Only reason I'm selling mine is I want to get the 5-25 Heritage!

Well the info didn't come from Jerry, it came from a shooting buddy who was curious and knew I was a fan of Premier and was looking to buy another soon. Hence I asked, didn't accuse...

Another 11/11/09

"I just sold my 3-15 so I can upgrade to a 5-25. I wouldn't be looking to buy a 5-25 if I wasn't happy now would I?"

11/12/09

"Sure I loved the glass in my PH, but the fact that I could run it all the way out to 1100 yards and back to 100 and my zero didn't change was my favorite part."

So lizzardking308 it appears you were either full of it before or full of it now and I'm guessing it's now. </div></div>

I'm flattered that you went through all my posts to check on what I said about Premier in the past! Slow day in Austraila huh?

You're right that I was iniaially a fan of the PH scopes, the glass was amazing, the service was spot on, it was a good scope. However, as time went on and I dealt with more PH's on the range and saw them function other than as they should, (IE tracking issues, the parallax knob not being able to be set across the elevation range, clickers going bad within a week or two's hard usage) my opinion went south. Then come to find out that the scopes aren't actually made in the USA as they were initially said to be, that hurt my opinion as well. If they weren't going to be made here, don't try and pull the wool over people's eyes, and especially don't come back with "nunya" for a response as to where they are currently made. (which from what I heard isn't even in the US anymore, 2 cars in the parking lot most of the week says not a lot of scopes being built...)

My opinion is just that: my opinion. You can take it for exactly what you paid for it. Another crazy idea, people's opinions change too... I'd apologize to you if I hurt your feelings, but unfortunatly I'm not sorry. I had one of the 3-15's and liked it for a while, but ditched it for another S&B because I don't want to have an expensive paperweight on my desk if something happens to the company and for the fact that the person I dealt with was no longer there and I had lost faith in the company. Again, just MY opinion, but I do what I want with my money and it went to S&B. Seeing as you have some time on your hands, why not check through the rest of my posts, I'm sure I've said some good stuff about S&B in the past as well. Might come in handy if I ever change my mind on S&B.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pongnukl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lizardkin308, pretty odd that after all the comments posted below by you about premier, that now you have become a Premier basher. Every company including S&B will have scopes that break. If your premier breaks, premier will undoubtably fix it.

Here's one of your posts from 06/01/09

"That's funny as none have been turned back in to my knowledge (spoke with Jerry last week) and one would think that you would send it back to get fixed if you spent 2500 on a scope... Also to say the glass isn't that bright, yeah ok... I've had a TON of people look through my S&B's, my Nightforces, my USO and anything else i have, and the Premier is ALWAYS picked as the brightest."


Another from 11/02/09 in regards to PH 3-15x

"Mine's tracked like a micrometer. Never had a tracking issue ever."

Here another from 10/30/09

"No trades at this time, sorry. I'm trying to upgrade to the Heritage 5-25. This has the Gen II mil dot."

Another from 10/30/09
Only reason I'm selling mine is I want to get the 5-25 Heritage!

Well the info didn't come from Jerry, it came from a shooting buddy who was curious and knew I was a fan of Premier and was looking to buy another soon. Hence I asked, didn't accuse...

Another 11/11/09

"I just sold my 3-15 so I can upgrade to a 5-25. I wouldn't be looking to buy a 5-25 if I wasn't happy now would I?"

11/12/09

"Sure I loved the glass in my PH, but the fact that I could run it all the way out to 1100 yards and back to 100 and my zero didn't change was my favorite part."

So lizzardking308 it appears you were either full of it before or full of it now and I'm guessing it's now. </div></div>

Don't get too wrapped up in it...they are called fanboy's and they thrive on the flavor of the week.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl Snafu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pongnukl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lizardkin308, pretty odd that after all the comments posted below by you about premier, that now you have become a Premier basher. Every company including S&B will have scopes that break. If your premier breaks, premier will undoubtably fix it.

Here's one of your posts from 06/01/09

"That's funny as none have been turned back in to my knowledge (spoke with Jerry last week) and one would think that you would send it back to get fixed if you spent 2500 on a scope... Also to say the glass isn't that bright, yeah ok... I've had a TON of people look through my S&B's, my Nightforces, my USO and anything else i have, and the Premier is ALWAYS picked as the brightest."


Another from 11/02/09 in regards to PH 3-15x

"Mine's tracked like a micrometer. Never had a tracking issue ever."

Here another from 10/30/09

"No trades at this time, sorry. I'm trying to upgrade to the Heritage 5-25. This has the Gen II mil dot."

Another from 10/30/09
Only reason I'm selling mine is I want to get the 5-25 Heritage!

Well the info didn't come from Jerry, it came from a shooting buddy who was curious and knew I was a fan of Premier and was looking to buy another soon. Hence I asked, didn't accuse...

Another 11/11/09

"I just sold my 3-15 so I can upgrade to a 5-25. I wouldn't be looking to buy a 5-25 if I wasn't happy now would I?"

11/12/09

"Sure I loved the glass in my PH, but the fact that I could run it all the way out to 1100 yards and back to 100 and my zero didn't change was my favorite part."

So lizzardking308 it appears you were either full of it before or full of it now and I'm guessing it's now. </div></div>

Don't get too wrapped up in it...they are called fanboy's and they thrive on the flavor of the week. </div></div>


Wow, speaking of fanboy's, I seem to be developing a fan club! Way to add to the tread dickless!
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Same people bashing the same threads but, they never get tired of it .Don't you have something better to do. Ya their going out of business,the scope sucks and they cant do anything right.

Vortex Nightforce S&B are all better and the rest are shit......

Have a nice day
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

i want to get this out there. I am in no way bashing Premier, but with the failures that i have had and have seen personally I would like that experience to be known. If i were bashing them i could start into a world of shit and have no solid proof. I am merely stating the failures and problems that i witnessed first hand. But optics topics seem to generate the most hurt feelings. Everyone gets attached to the scope that they spent their hard earned money on. Rock on if thats you, but its a tool and i have absolutely no emotional investment into any optic, gun, trigger, or anything of the such. If i praise a product its because it flat out works, no questions asked.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Heck, my 58mm USO seemed more clear to me than the PR. </div></div>

You would be the only one to saying that. </div></div>

No he wouldn't. The PR 5-25 I had didn't have anyhting on my USO 5-25.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i want to get this out there. I am in no way bashing Premier, but with the failures that i have had and have seen personally I would like that experience to be known. If i were bashing them i could start into a world of shit and have no solid proof. I am merely stating the failures and problems that i witnessed first hand. But optics topics seem to generate the most hurt feelings. Everyone gets attached to the scope that they spent their hard earned money on. Rock on if thats you, but its a tool and i have absolutely no emotional investment into any optic, gun, trigger, or anything of the such. If i praise a product its because it flat out works, no questions asked. </div></div>

My point is we are come here to learn and share stuff,not get into pissing matches state your opinion and move on. Everyone has a right to speak your peace but to attack people is wrong. That's my point and it wasn't directed at anyone.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Dang, I just gotta call you out on the BS, Lizzardking308. One guy who was not you (a former employee and a good guy as far as my dealings with him) drives by one day and sees just a couple cars in the parking lot and that suddenly makes it that week in and week out nobody is there? Also, while others have been upset by the "nunya" remark and apparently still have hurt feelings despite Premier making an explanatory and apologetic post, the vast majority of us have never taken that to mean that the scopes were built somewhere else. Only that Premier made an unfortunate remark regarding the origin of some of its parts (which are still nobody's business as long as they are truthful about following Federal law regarding country of manufacture).
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl Snafu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pongnukl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lizardkin308, pretty odd that after all the comments posted below by you about premier, that now you have become a Premier basher. Every company including S&B will have scopes that break. If your premier breaks, premier will undoubtably fix it.

Here's one of your posts from 06/01/09

"That's funny as none have been turned back in to my knowledge (spoke with Jerry last week) and one would think that you would send it back to get fixed if you spent 2500 on a scope... Also to say the glass isn't that bright, yeah ok... I've had a TON of people look through my S&B's, my Nightforces, my USO and anything else i have, and the Premier is ALWAYS picked as the brightest."


Another from 11/02/09 in regards to PH 3-15x

"Mine's tracked like a micrometer. Never had a tracking issue ever."

Here another from 10/30/09

"No trades at this time, sorry. I'm trying to upgrade to the Heritage 5-25. This has the Gen II mil dot."

Another from 10/30/09
Only reason I'm selling mine is I want to get the 5-25 Heritage!

Well the info didn't come from Jerry, it came from a shooting buddy who was curious and knew I was a fan of Premier and was looking to buy another soon. Hence I asked, didn't accuse...

Another 11/11/09

"I just sold my 3-15 so I can upgrade to a 5-25. I wouldn't be looking to buy a 5-25 if I wasn't happy now would I?"

11/12/09

"Sure I loved the glass in my PH, but the fact that I could run it all the way out to 1100 yards and back to 100 and my zero didn't change was my favorite part."

So lizzardking308 it appears you were either full of it before or full of it now and I'm guessing it's now. </div></div>

Don't get too wrapped up in it...they are called fanboy's and they thrive on the flavor of the week. </div></div>


Wow, speaking of fanboy's, I seem to be developing a fan club! Way to add to the tread dickless!
</div></div>

Just as sure as Premier appears in the thread title, we all know you'll be there to trash them. That is all!
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dang, I just gotta call you out on the BS, Lizzardking308. One guy who was not you (a former employee and a good guy as far as my dealings with him) drives by one day and sees just a couple cars in the parking lot and that suddenly makes it that week in and week out nobody is there? Also, while others have been upset by the "nunya" remark and apparently still have hurt feelings despite Premier making an explanatory and apologetic post, the vast majority of us have never taken that to mean that the scopes were built somewhere else. Only that Premier made an unfortunate remark regarding the origin of some of its parts (which are still nobody's business as long as they are truthful about following Federal law regarding country of manufacture). </div></div>



If you think the empty parking lot was a 1 time deal, you're sadly mistaken. Also, if you think they're made in the US, again, you'll be sadly disappointed. You believe what you want, makes no difference to me.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl Snafu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pongnukl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lizardkin308, pretty odd that after all the comments posted below by you about premier, that now you have become a Premier basher. Every company including S&B will have scopes that break. If your premier breaks, premier will undoubtably fix it.

Here's one of your posts from 06/01/09

"That's funny as none have been turned back in to my knowledge (spoke with Jerry last week) and one would think that you would send it back to get fixed if you spent 2500 on a scope... Also to say the glass isn't that bright, yeah ok... I've had a TON of people look through my S&B's, my Nightforces, my USO and anything else i have, and the Premier is ALWAYS picked as the brightest."


Another from 11/02/09 in regards to PH 3-15x

"Mine's tracked like a micrometer. Never had a tracking issue ever."

Here another from 10/30/09

"No trades at this time, sorry. I'm trying to upgrade to the Heritage 5-25. This has the Gen II mil dot."

Another from 10/30/09
Only reason I'm selling mine is I want to get the 5-25 Heritage!

Well the info didn't come from Jerry, it came from a shooting buddy who was curious and knew I was a fan of Premier and was looking to buy another soon. Hence I asked, didn't accuse...

Another 11/11/09

"I just sold my 3-15 so I can upgrade to a 5-25. I wouldn't be looking to buy a 5-25 if I wasn't happy now would I?"

11/12/09

"Sure I loved the glass in my PH, but the fact that I could run it all the way out to 1100 yards and back to 100 and my zero didn't change was my favorite part."

So lizzardking308 it appears you were either full of it before or full of it now and I'm guessing it's now. </div></div>

Don't get too wrapped up in it...they are called fanboy's and they thrive on the flavor of the week. </div></div>


Wow, speaking of fanboy's, I seem to be developing a fan club! Way to add to the tread dickless!
</div></div>

lol, dickless? Are we back in high school now?
crazy.gif


2 different scopes, 2 different prices and features, get what you like and what you can afford.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Ive had 5 USO's one took a dump and I was told 3 weeks return time, well 6 month's later I got it back and I didn't like the glass compared to others.I traded a Leupold for a NFX mistake from the start but that's my opinion. My Ph had mushy clicks sent it back. hey all have issues . I dont give a crap where it's made ....Do you ? Where is your car from? cell phone from ? PC from ? Every gadget you own from ?
I can go on and on about rifle builders here and so forth but that's not me....

enough said
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Heck, my 58mm USO seemed more clear to me than the PR. </div></div>

You would be the only one to saying that. </div></div>

No he wouldn't. The PR 5-25 I had didn't have anyhting on my USO 5-25. </div></div>

Some people just dont know man.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Ahhh the optics threads.

Answer a question for me, honestly.

How many of you guys are happy with:

A- the current scope on your primary rig.

B- The level of selection available to us, as precision shooters.

I bet the number is exceedingly high, of shooters who are happy with the glass on their rig, and the options available if they decide to upgrade.

These threads become silly.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Heck, my 58mm USO seemed more clear to me than the PR. </div></div>

You would be the only one to saying that. </div></div>

No he wouldn't. The PR 5-25 I had didn't have anyhting on my USO 5-25. </div></div>

Some people just dont know man. </div></div>

Sure don't. I had pretty much all the scopes listed in this thread in my hand at the same time when I was looking for another high end scope. And there was pretty much a consensus there that the PR was one awesome scope.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardking308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you think the empty parking lot was a 1 time deal, you're sadly mistaken. Also, if you think they're made in the US, again, you'll be sadly disappointed.</div></div>

Oh, I forgot that you're that Lizard King - the one whom from his semi-secret Rochester basement lair can reposition NRO satellites on a daily basis. Or was it Google's Streetview that you're checking every few hours during the day? (Hint: they don't update it that often). That also explains how you got the bugs into their offices and overhear their daily conversations with the Nunyan assembly line managers.

My bad. Oops, gotta go. I hear the rheostat sparking down in the basement...could start a fire.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Good post hydro556.


The only bashing I see in this thread is member on member bashing....

I get drawn to these threads by the snippets I read when I click the "active posts" tab. Sometimes I click on a thread because I agree or disagree with what I read, sometimes I click because I think I can learn something new about something I'm interested in, sometimes I click because I think I may be able to share my experience. Other times I just click because train wrecks are hard to ignore....

If you've survived reading this post this far I have one question-and its just an observation I've noticed:
Why do all the threads that have PR vs XXX turn into being about PR? Think about it...not much commenting about S&B going on in this thread, now is there? Perhaps there is a bigger reaction on a psychological level to investing in much anticipated "next best" gear than there is in investing in a product that fulfills knowns rather than unknowns.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The only bashing I see in this thread is <span style="font-weight: bold">member on member bashing</span>....

</div></div>

Cue Shankster!
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The only bashing I see in this thread is <span style="font-weight: bold">member on member bashing</span>....

</div></div>

Cue Shankster! </div></div>

Nah, he only comes when there are fat chicks or long range SKS' being discussed.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good post hydro556.


The only bashing I see in this thread is member on member bashing....

I get drawn to these threads by the snippets I read when I click the "active posts" tab. Sometimes I click on a thread because I agree or disagree with what I read, sometimes I click because I think I can learn something new about something I'm interested in, sometimes I click because I think I may be able to share my experience. Other times I just click because train wrecks are hard to ignore....

If you've survived reading this post this far I have one question-and its just an observation I've noticed:
Why do all the threads that have PR vs XXX turn into being about PR? Think about it...not much commenting about S&B going on in this thread, now is there? Perhaps there is a bigger reaction on a psychological level to investing in much anticipated "next best" gear than there is in investing in a product that fulfills knowns rather than unknowns.




</div></div>

Some people seem to have some very personal issues with Premier. That's why you see the same folks jumping in to bash them time and again. Premier is being held to some imaginary standard that no other companies seem to get held to.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who is the president of Schmidt & Bender, anyway? Anyone know? </div></div>

His name is Karlheinz Gerlach I believe.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who is the president of Schmidt & Bender, anyway? Anyone know?</div></div>

Isn't it a guy by the name of Mark Cromwell?
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who is the president of Schmidt & Bender, anyway? Anyone know? </div></div>
I don't know who the president of Schmidt & Bender, Germany (the parent company) is, but Mark Cromwell is the president of Schmidt & Bender Inc., USA. Mark is the man to talk to if you want a quote on service(s) such as CCW and/or reticle changes. His contact info is below:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Mark Cromwell
President, Schmidt & Bender Inc., USA
438 Willow Brook Road
Meriden, NH 03770
[email protected]
800-468-3450
603-469-3471</span>

Keith
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

Sorry. I posted late. I meant Karlheinz... what is his relation to the family.

Apples-to-apples, what is the price difference between a CCW 2-25X56 w/ Gen2XR versus PH? And do they offer MTC?

Thanks, y'all.
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

I believe Karlheinz bought S&B from Mr. Bender.

You can't get a S&B 5-25 w/ the Gen2XR anymore unless you find one used. Personally I like the P4F a lot better, but that's just me, some would say I'm biased though...
 
Re: PR vs. S&B

I thought you could get a Gen2XR, it just costs more, but you would know better than I. When they sell a CCW version, does it cost more than CW?

For me, the things I like about the PH are the reticle, CCW, MTC knobs, and the price. The tucked in parallax knob is kind of nice, but I don't look at the parallax while I am running the knob, so the "tuck-away" knob isn't that big of a deal.

I also like the oversized turrets and the button to indicate which turn you are on, but these are not a huge deal to me. I just kind of like them. Like the tool-less turrets. I have a stock pack with an Allen wrench, which solves that problem... BUT, I keep my NF NXS .2 mils to the right because I am too lazy to re-zero. It has been like that for 6 months. Easy to fix, I just haven't because it is kind of a hassle to break out the allen wrench, loosen the screw, re-zero, and tighten down. Stupid, I know. I have re-zeroed my PH a couple of times in those 6 months because it is pretty easy. But really... nice to have, not a big deal at all.

On the S&B, the parallax that dials down to 10 yards is great, and obviously, S&B is no slouch. They have been around a while. I think the S&B is a little more compact and lighter, but I am not sure.

There is the issue of whether Premier will be around forever. If PR goes under, what happens? Well, most likely, they would sell of the assets, which would include some of the IP like the rights to the reticle designs. I think that if that happened, a purchaser would buy the IP and take over the company. They would probably cancel the warranties (if that is legally possible) and service the scopes for a fee. I would think that Leupold might be a potential buyer if that happens (of course, after the falling out, who knows if ego rather than common sense would dictate). In the end, the warranty might not hold up, but you could probably get the scope serviced in the event of a bankruptcy.

I am open to the idea of selling my PH and buying an S&B, but it seems like for the things that I like and for a little less dough, I like the PH. I am willing to live with the possibility, however probable, that the company goes under. I am just not going to let things like parking lot fill levels dictate which scope to use. For some people, that might be really important. I mean, it is a couple of grand either way, and that is a lot of money.
 
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