Practical barrel length - .223 Match upper

[thelaststraw]

I currently shoot a 6ARC gasser and am getting experience at whatever matches I can get to and classes to work fundamentals. For some of the matches I plan to get to this year I need to get an upper together for a .223. Specifically team matches like Guardian, Competition Dynamics, etc. Practically speaking, is there any reason to go beyond 18-20 inches for the role that would serve in those type matches? If I can get at least 2700fps out of 75 or 77s, they look to perform reasonably well on JBM. My knowledge is limited beyond 6ARC and 300BO.

 

[912173]

I get 2700 with 77 gr nosler and 8208 xbr out of my white oak 16" mid length gas barrel. I'm just running powder charges in the 23gr range like most guys do. I don't shoot comps, but a 20" AR without a suppressor still handles good and will get you some more speed.

 

[thelaststraw]

That's good to hear, I was hoping to go 18" or maybe 20" to keep it lighter and shorter since I shoot with a can. I imagine N140 will give similar speed, I've grown fond of VV powders. I appreciate it, gives me a starting point, I definitely didn't want another 24" barrel if I didn't need it.

 

[blbennett1288]

Guardians only got one true Team Match for 2022. In 2021 and 2022 they waived their caliber restrictions so both shooters can shoot whatever they want.

For shits, I ran a 18” .223 gasser at Guardian GTI in November and have some specific thoughts about how it performed given that COF. @thelaststraw if your interested I can share.

I am running an 18” 1:7 .223 with 77gr SMKs and 24.7grs of VV N140 out of Lapua brass and Fed 205’s at 2758fps. ~24.2grs should get you 2700fps with VV N140

 

[912173]

I did a ton of reading when I built mine and my conclusion was not to chase speed too much on an AR. The barrels over 20" don't seem to pay off as much as they do on bolt action .223s because you can't load rounds as long and the powder charges are lower. I ended up aiming for 2700 fps and reliable accuracy/feeding with 77 gr hpbt bullets vs. constantly tinkering.

 

[thelaststraw]

I appreciate it. I wasn't aware that they waived it in 2022 also. Thanks for the info also, that's right around where I was hoping it would be. I would be using 450s but I doubt that would change much. Either way, I need a shorter and lighter setup than my 24" varmint barrel.

 

[blbennett1288]

I appreciate it. I wasn't aware that they waived it in 2022 also. Thanks for the info also, that's right around where I was hoping it would be. I would be using 450s but I doubt that would change much. Either way, I need a shorter and lighter setup than my 24" varmint barrel.

Shouldn’t make much difference, but 450’s would be harder (magnum) than 205s so you might get a little bit more speed.

 

[TACC]

I also found my white oak 20 has been lights out with 77's

 

[thelaststraw]

I appreciate the info. I have been using Compass Lake and was planning on having one spun up. I'm pretty sure the Wylde chamber would be the one for the longer bullets and the CLE is tighter to get closer to the lands. The last barrel I got from them came 6 weeks early in Nov.

 

[longshot2000]

If you are truly just target shooting, go for 22". If you are mixed target and carry, 20" is a great match length. 18" rifle gas is good, but does have a disadvantage of rather fast gas port erosion with soft steel. We use 18" for the Mk18 -- the first true purpose built SPR / sniper 5.56mm gun, and Douglas barrels have done outstanding with port erosion. I have seen other 18" stainless barrels dead after 5,000 rounds.

And, yes, 77 grain is my preference with 1:7 twist, wither 5.56 NATO, CLE or Wylde chambering and I am a factory ammo guy, and prefer Black Hills. If I cannot find it, second choice is Federal Gold 77 grain, third choice is Lake City LR118.

 

[thelaststraw]

Thank you sir. I'm not set on exact barrel length. This particular upper will be for carry in any of the field matches that may require the cartridge. Not sure what Competition Dynamics may or may not have and apparently the Guardian at Arena does not require a Tac shooter again this year. If rifle gas is rough on the 18s, I can go 20". As far as Douglas/Criterion, etc...again, no preference other than I currently have a CLE Criterion and it's a true 0.5" gas gun/shooter combo. I'm pleased.

Thank you for the specifics in the end on ammo and twist rate. I handload and will be using 75 BTHP and 77s. Have to get to gathering components at this point, same with adding to my powder stash since most is 6ARC specific.

 

[KineticPerformance]

For team matches, DMR matches, etc where I have to use a small frame I shoot a 20" with RLG and 77's although in years past I've used a 18" with MLG with good results also. A buddy and I annihilated the Gunslinger with 18" guns and I've done a bang up job with 20" guns in various matches. I like the feel of the 20" with RLG over the 18" with MLG but I don't get appreciable velocity gains with the 20" although my Service Rifle with .223 Rem Match chamber is a bit faster than either of the other two:
18" / .223 Wylde = 2743fps
20" / 5.56 NATO = 2770fps
20" / .223 Rem Match = 2820fps

Any of them is adequate for what you want to do.

 

[346ci]

18" for me, good length for velocity and using a can.

 

[thelaststraw]

I really appreciate all the good info people have shared. I think I may like the 20" rifle length or 18" intermediate. My experience with 6ARC started with 20" rifle gas and went to 24" +2 and it was a huge improvement in feel and in function. I just want to keep this upper on the lighter side while being heavy enough to not get too hot down here in the deep south.

 

[BCP]

What kind of matches are these that call for an AR15 223 rifle? Service rifle? Steel silhouettes?

 

[KineticPerformance]

What kind of matches are these that call for an AR15 223 rifle? Service rifle? Steel silhouettes?

The last one I shot was Coleman's Creek Sniper Comp a couple weeks ago. Mammoth Sniper, Vortex Sniper, etc all generally require the secondary shooter to use a .233 or .308 and I pick based on where I'm going and the style.

 

[thelaststraw]

The ones I'm specifically referring to are pretty much steel at known and UKD. Only one I know for sure as far as date and general format is the Guardian in Nov. I have not seen or heard what competition dynamics may or may not have for 2022.

 

[Gtscotty]

I really appreciate all the good info people have shared. I think I may like the 20" rifle length or 18" intermediate. My experience with 6ARC started with 20" rifle gas and went to 24" +2 and it was a huge improvement in feel and in function. I just want to keep this upper on the lighter side while being heavy enough to not get too hot down here in the deep south.

Why intermediate gas instead of rifle length on the 18"? 18" .223s with rifle gas are a pretty well known quantity, trends to shoot soft with the gas set up, and easy to run with a can.

 

[Ledzep]

Shouldn’t make much difference, but 450’s would be harder (magnum) than 205s so you might get a little bit more speed.

The testing I've seen shows CCI's to actually be a little softer on average than the other brands. Granted, it was all LR primers, but the CCI 250 was more or less in line with the Federal 210, where the CCI 200 had less energy.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm a barrel nerd with 5.56 barrels at 10.5", 12.5", 13.7", 14", a couple 14.5"s, 14.8", 15", a bunch of 16"s, a few 18"s, 20" and 22" and the main thing I've learned is that 2 inches is barely noticeable in terms of velocity. My current build in the works is for open terrain style 3 gun matches, so a lot of similarities with a DMR type match gun, and it's got a 17" RLGS +1" barrel on the way for it. It's my theorized sweet spot of short length, light weight and softest recoil possible.

 

[thelaststraw]

I don't know the specifics or sweet spots with .223, that why I was asking originally. From my experience with 6ARC I would think rifle length with both 18 " and 20", but I don't know. All I really would like is about 2700-2750fps with 77s or 75s. Full mass bcg with SA gas block and suppressor use full time. If 18" RLGS will do the job, I have no reason to go longer.

I just don't know and don't want to experiment since people who know are rather abundant. I appreciate everyone's help, even with something that is probably a pretty common question.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

All I really would like is about 2700-2750fps with 77s or 75s.

That's right in the 16-18" ballpark.

 

[thelaststraw]

Cool beans. Thank you sir. 18" rifle gas 7twist it is.