Pre 64 Model 70 build

[wichitaguns]

Hey folks,
First posting here. Thinking about building a rifle on a winchester model 70 pre 64. This would be a long action ( 30-06 length)
Primary purpose would be positional shooting competition ( psr style) with hunting white tail being a secondary.
Questions are
a) will a 6.5 creedmoor or 260 remington feed off a long action
b) are there any other caliber recommendations
Thinking about sending it off to either longrifles inc or GAP when funds and parts are all gathered.

 

[Clark]

I have a pre 64 in 270 and one in 308.
The 308 has the magazine blocked off to be shorter.
There is a spacer on the bolt.
There is longer ejector.

 

[jcann]

Have you thought of 6.5x55 and Crescent Customs? Moon knows his way around a Winchester action.

 

[wichitaguns]

Thank you Clark, that helps. I have a 270 pre 64, but for a build I would try to find a donor action. [MENTION=69023]jcann[/MENTION] first time I have heard of crescent customs. Will look into them, GAP is local to me, hence the preference. But I am in no way locked in.
Will also have to study the 6.5 x55, now that you mentioned it.

 

[Edds]

Questions are
a) will a 6.5 creedmoor or 260 remington feed off a long action

All pre 64 Model 70's are long actions. Winchester used them for 308 length cartridges.

 

[rope]

1. 6.5 SAUM
2. GAP

I have a Win Model 70 (new pre 64) in a 338 Win mag from GAP. It sports a Bartlien #4 fluted with a removable Vais break, Manners MCS-T stock flecturn painted by shortbus, Sunny Hill bottom metal, March scope with Talley LW rings and a fine Montana sling from Pat Sinclair. Current GAP build is a 6.5 SAUM on a Win M 70 (new pre 64) close to the Extreme Hunter specs, except PTG custom floor plate, not sure of stock may get here as a HTG or a MCS-T, with a Bushnell LRHS and Talley LW rings and of course a Montana sling. Good luck with your build.

 

[jim_k]

Keep it .30-'06. Cases and loaded ammo more available. Just as accurate. Easy to load/size. bullets from 110-200 gr. Can load down with H4895 or TrailBoss.
Jim

 

[cjgemm]

If it were me, Id set it up for a 284 Win.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I like these choices, there is nothing wrong with the CM or 260, but since its a long action you may as well just use it as such. The 30-06 is a fine choice, but if it were me, I'd go .284 or .280, or maybe even 6.5-06 is your dead set on a 6.5.

 

[wichitaguns]

Thanks for the caliber recommendations. I am thinking that keeping it in a long action cartridge would be good.
And I did check out Cresent Moon's website. Also local to me...this is great.
First thing need to complete this darn Bushnell HDMR purchase

 

[lennyo3034]

6.5X55 maybe?

 

[Engine 22]

While he was at GAP, Moon built my 280AI (laser) off of a post-64 Winchester long action, previously a .243. Easily my favorite rifle I have and probably the least expensive at that. It's bad medicine on steel and animals!

 

[wichitaguns]

6.5 x 55 is definitely up for consideration. Any sexy pre64 action build pics?

 

[pipewhiner]

This is a favorite rifle of mine. Mark Chanlynn built 6.5x55 on a pre-64 70 in a McMillan A3. This pic was just after I received the rifle. This rifle is a hammer.

 

[wichitaguns]

Looks awesome pipewhiner.What is the barrel profile, and overall weight?
Mechanically speaking, is there any benefit to a true pre64 to one of the newer win classics pre 64(made post 94 I think with crf)

 

[Clark]

I will build a rifle with my 308 M70 by the fall of 2014.
I have a finished Bansner stock.
I have some barrel blank candidates here or on the way:
a) 6mm 10" twist #7 taper
b) 257 10" medium palma taper 3 groove
c) 257 9" twist #3 taper
d) 6.5 8" twist #3 rachet rifling
e) 7mm 9" #5 taper rachet

I have some reamers I could use:
6mmBR .272" neck
.243
250-3000 Savage
257Roberts
257 Roberts Ackley
25-06
260
6.5-06
7mmRemMag

 

[pipewhiner]

Looks awesome pipewhiner.What is the barrel profile, and overall weight?
Mechanically speaking, is there any benefit to a true pre64 to one of the newer win classics pre 64(made post 94 I think with crf)

Wichita,
That is Mark's medium palma profile barrel at 26" 8.5 twist. I Haven't thrown it on a scale. I don't know if there is a mechanical advantage between the two but I sure have an emotional attachment to the pre-64. I found the base rifle already chopped to bits with a Mcgowen barrel and Tupperware stock. I had to rescue it. I went with the 6.5x55 because as you said they are all long actions so why not take advantage of it. The swede feeds great through the rifle without any modifications and I had to stretch load development out a ways because I couldn't find a load to shoot over an inch at 100. I settled on rl-22 and shoot both the 140 Amax and 142 SMK.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Any sexy pre64 action build pics?

I rebuilt this one for my father, it was, and always will be a .264WM. Cut the barrel at 24" and still get 3100fps with a mild 140 load, it is like instant death.

 

[wichitaguns]

I am doing some digging into the 6.5 swede.
Along with the 284 win.
Does anyone have any personnal experience with the mechanical accuracy of guns in these calibers?

 

[wichitaguns]

Pipewhiner....Sorry I guess I didn't understand your comment about load development. Did you find an acceptable load? And what kind of groups are you getting with it? Not obsessed with groups just want to get a feel for the mechanical a accuracy

 

[Jcub]

Either the 6.5 Sherman Shortmag, or the 6.5 SAUM 4S

 

[pipewhiner]

Pipewhiner....Sorry I guess I didn't understand your comment about load development. Did you find an acceptable load? And what kind of groups are you getting with it? Not obsessed with groups just want to get a feel for the mechanical a accuracy

No problem, what I was trying to say is this thing is a hammer. 3 different bullets with 4 different powders all shot under an inch all the way through their acceptable charge ranges.
This rifle shoots consistent 1/2 MOA out to the 1000 yards I've shot it too with both the 140 amaxes and 142 SMKs. What more could a fellow ask for.

 

[jcann]

I am doing some digging into the 6.5 swede.
Along with the 284 win.
Does anyone have any personnal experience with the mechanical accuracy of guns in these calibers?

I'm not sure what you mean by "mechanical accuracy" but if you have either GAP or Crescent Customs build it you'll be very happy with the accuracy. GAP built my M70 7wsm and Moon at CC did some work on it as well and Its hard to shoot greater than 1/2 MOA even while load developing with Berger bullets.

The Swede is very popular across the pond but never really took off in the US. It's a very good cartridge and plesent to shoot, highly BC bullets, and good brass (Lapua). The 284 is an excellent round but I'm partial to 7mm.

Both calibers you mentioned up top were 6.5mm and the Swede is made for long action and is similar to the 260 ballistics.

 

[gafferq2xl]

If you do go with a SA cartridge, CDI makes a DBM to fit a Winchester LA to use SA Mags.

 

[wichitaguns]

I'm not sure what you mean by "mechanical accuracy" but if you have either GAP or Crescent Customs build it you'll be very happy with the accuracy. GAP built my M70 7wsm and Moon at CC did some work on it as well and Its hard to shoot greater than 1/2 MOA even while load developing with Berger bullets.

The Swede is very popular across the pond but never really took off in the US. It's a very good cartridge and plesent to shoot, highly BC bullets, and good brass (Lapua). The 284 is an excellent round but I'm partial to 7mm.

Both calibers you mentioned up top were 6.5mm and the Swede is made for long action and is similar to the 260 ballistics.

What I meant was, if you take the human element out. So basically a very good shooter off either bipod or bench.
Regardless you answered my question ...either gap or cc will result in a rifle with excellent accuracy

 

[Steve Suhr]

This pre-64 rifle started as my Father's LR Prone Rifle. After the barrel, an Obermeyer 4 groove was wore out I talked with George Gardner about re-barreling it to another caliber. George suggested the 6.5 -284. This is set up as a dual purpose, any sight rifle. McMillian Prone Stock, 26" Bartlein 5R 1-8 twist. It is a mild recoiling Hammer, especially when you are slung up in a leather shooting coat on your belly!

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/ssuhr/65_284.jpg?t=1395241169

 

[wichitaguns]

Very attractive.
Trying to locate a receiver and matching bolt at this point. Will be a while before I have everything I need, best to start early.
In other news just found a very nice mannlicher schonauer at cabelas that I might have to get. There goes the bushnell scope purchase

 

[stealthgoat]

This is a favorite rifle of mine. Mark Chanlynn built 6.5x55 on a pre-64 70 in a McMillan A3. This pic was just after I received the rifle. This rifle is a hammer.

That is awesome, thank you for posting that picture to keep me motivated!!
I am trying to build your rifle, but I can't find a A3/A5 type stock & I don't want to wait a year for a special order....

 

[pipewhiner]

That is awesome, thank you for posting that picture to keep me motivated!!
I am trying to build your rifle, but I can't find a A3/A5 type stock & I don't want to wait a year for a special order....

I lucked out. I found that stock on eBay made in 1999 and never used. I also got it super cheap. It still had the build sticker stuck on it.

 

[six 4 sure]

The pre-64 only came in one size and was chambered for everything from 22Hornet - 458WM. Everything you have mentioned will fit with ease. My guess is the challenge will be putting together the correct mag box, spacer, and follower.

I don't know that the 6.5x55 would be my first choice, but, Lapua makes brass and bullets (+ in my book). I have a 700 Classic in said chambering, I haven't had a chance to wring it out, but I suspect performance will be better than I've found in manuals ( i could be wrong).

I'd consider a 280AI or 243AI, before I'd go 6.5X55, but that's me.

FWIW, I have two pre-64's. One is a custom in 22 CHeetah which is nice except for the 1-16 twist barrel, the other is a 22Hornet that was reamed out to 222.

 

[wichitaguns]

Thanks for the reply.
Before I build is thing, I plan on spending a bunch of time reading litz's book and playing with a ballistics program to figure out which caliber to choose.
I want someone in 6.5 or 280 with fairly long barrel life.
Since the action would be a long actin, I am leaning toward a long action round (30-06 family).
But I do want to be able to buy factory brass to reload.
Still debating between building off a donor pre64 action( would not be destroying a pre64 rifle so rest easy) or one of the newer winchester classic actions.

 

[Clark]

Competitive target shooters and rodent shooters burn out barrels, but big game rifles never seem to reach the 1,000 rounds mark.

 

[jcann]

I wouldn't sale the 6.5x55 short. They can be pushed in modern actions to to shoot 130-140gr to 2,800-2,900fps. Naturally one would need to work up to that. Shooting a Berger hybrid with that velocity would make a fantastic cartridge. Most manuals reloading data are for old military actions and keep pressures low.

 

[pipewhiner]

I'm running the 142 SMK at 2850 fps...with no pressure signs.

 

[wichitaguns]

Does anyone Jane experience with the FN actions, are they 30-06 length actions with spacers like winchester used , or are they actual short actions?
Also if the Host rifle is a FN in WSM, would the bolt face need changed to work on a 308 based cartridges?
Looks like the options I have eight now are to either use a win classic model 70 action or use an action off a FN tsr.
I did call win Hester and they said I could buy a complete new model 70 crf bolt for about 200

 

[strike33]

The bolt face from the WSM would have to be changed to a standard 308.
I believe the SPR actions are true short actions

 

[strike33]

Is there a specific reason for the pre 64? don't get me wrong I love the action as well, but if you are piecing together your build there are some options. If its the CRF there is the Mcmillan G30 action, also the new ARC M5 has the Mauser extractor (short action)..pricey though.
A 64 build is just plain sexy.. sleek.
Last time I looked around the pre 64 were running 800 and up. That's a lot of coin for a donor (and like you said. tearing up a beautiful rifle)

 

[wichitaguns]

Well, my plan was to buy a winchester, shoot it and when I feel comfortable in my ability, upgrade to a build.
I already own a win classic with the boss. Don't think I want to tear that up. I have seen some used winchester classics go for around 650.at this point all options are open.
I am leaning toward a used pre-64 (made after 1994) with a stainless action.

 

[wichitaguns]

GAPrecision...visited the shop, definitely going with them to build my rifle...at some point.
Gap #7 contour, model 70 action, manner t4a. Caliber tbd