Pre-fit Barrel Problems

[Hawk in WY]

I am not calling anyone out here but I am hearing and experiencing unexpected problems with pre-fit barrels from two large suppliers.

A major supplier of pre-fit barrels tells me they will need to see each action before manufacturing a "pre-fit barrel" in the future. This kind of defeats the purpose of pre-fit barrels. I am not naming this supplier because they have not yet announced this change publicly.

The second problem is with Proof pre-fit carbon barrels. The last barrel I received fit the Impact action it was intended for but the engraving was something like 45 degrees off so the caliber designation will be at the bottom of the action. For me, a barrel without the caliber visible is unsafe and unusable. They referred me to the following on their website:

I wonder what they think I should do with an unusable barrel.

I can't believe CNC machines which have held specification for many years are suddenly going out of spec.

I wonder what's really going on here.

 

[308pirate]

I can't believe CNC machines which have held specification for many years are suddenly going out of spec.

Wait, do you think CNC machines make perfect parts that are the same over and over and over in every dimension?

LOL

 

[kmdn_crew]

That is definitely a usable barrel lol. Very few action manufacturers time their threads. Your engraving has nothing to do with the headspace of the barrel. There is always going to be some variance.

They even have a freaking disclaimer on their website about the timing. Have you even bothered to check headspace with proper gauges?

 

[Hawk in WY]

Wait, do you think CNC machines make perfect parts that are the same over and over and over in every dimension?

LOL

That gets right to the point which is what the first supplier is telling me. They are saying they cannot rely on actions including Impact which must be one of the best in the business holding tolerances.

I don't know enough to think anything. The point is action suppliers hold tolerances close enough for pre-fit barrels or they don't. I have tended to believe quality action manufacturers when they say they do.

Proof engraving is a separate issue.

 

[Hawk in WY]

That is definitely a usable barrel lol. Very few action manufacturers time their threads. Your engraving has nothing to do with the headspace of the barrel. There is always going to be some variance.

They even have a freaking disclaimer on their website about the timing. Have you even bothered to check headspace with proper gauges?

I do and headspace is fine.

 

[kmdn_crew]

I do and headspace is fine.

Than what is the issue?

 

[Hawk in WY]

Than what is the issue?

I have a barrel where there is no visible caliber identification.

 

[Halcyonhal]

.

Proof engraving is a separate issue.

so why raise it then? Or put another way… what exactly are you wanting folks to comment on here? Not sure many people would agree with you that a barrel is unusable because the engraving is on the bottom after threading it on. Get a sharpie out and write on the top if it bothers you.

Prefits will always have some level of tolerance, same as the actions. If you want something that has a much tighter spec, get a custom barrel reamed and fitted to your action by a reputable gunsmith. It’s a time and price point issue…

 

[Hawk in WY]

so why raise it then? Or put another way… what exactly are you wanting folks to comment on here? Not sure many people would agree with you that a barrel is unusable because the engraving is on the bottom after threading it on. Get a sharpie out and write on the top if it bothers you.

Prefits will always have some level of tolerance, same as the actions. If you want something that has a much tighter spec, get a custom barrel reamed and fitted to your action by a reputable gunsmith. It’s a time and price point issue…

I raise these two issues because I have been using pre-fit barrels successfully for several years and suddenly am seeing problems.

 

[srt-4_uk]

I raise these two issues because I have been using pre-fit barrels successfully for several years and suddenly am seeing problems.

"Problems"

 

[AllenOne1]

Seems like we need to hear "the rest of the story" on this issue.

"A major supplier of pre-fit barrels tells me they will need to see each action before manufacturing a "pre-fit barrel" in the future. This kind of defeats the purpose of pre-fit barrels. I am not naming this supplier because they have not yet announced this change publicly."

 

[Taylorbok]

Who cares about the engraving? it's your rifle, no one should be coming up and shoving random ammo in it regardless. Frick I'd almost rather have a wrong engraving to prevent unknown people from using said rifle.

I'm betting they have had issues with certain actions and for said actions will require either the action or a tenon drawing, if you provide a tenon drawing and the pre-fit doesn't fit tough cookies. If actions are taking a pre-fit no problem I doubt they will require anything, but top notch action makers will provide a tenon drawing to you.

 

[308pirate]

I have a barrel where there is no visible caliber identification.

How, exactly, is this a problem?

Do you loan it to random people without telling them what caliber it is?

 

[DocRDS]

I raise these two issues because I have been using pre-fit barrels successfully for several years and suddenly am seeing problems.

What changed.

For this to be useful, we need to know what your data was before, what your data is now, and your estimate of when it changed.

This secret squirrel shit is for the birds.

I bought X barrels from Bobs Barrels n Shit and they always headspaced and timed so the engraving was at 9 o clock. Now I get a new barrel from Bobs Barrels n Shit and it times at 6 o clock.

That's helpful.

"I'm seeing issues with two major suppliers"

Now we gotta guess, anyone who searches with a similar problem will have to go into a seance to determine if their problem was the same as yours because you won't give details.

Which actions? Impact? Origin? Savage? Remington?

I better go take my meds.

 

[Hawk in WY]

"Problems"

I'm guessing it's only me who hears from their major barrel supplier that they can no longer supply pre-fit barrels and thinks that is a problem.

I'm also guessing I'm the only one who has more than one rifle and would like to be able to identify the caliber by looking at the barrel.

The consensus seems to be those are not problems so I probably should stand down.

Thank you for all your comments.

 

[kthomas]

I'm not a huge fan of prefits mostly because I have no control over what barrel and chamber specs are used.

I prefer to have my chambers cut specifically for the projectiles I'm shooting. My gunsmith has my action spec's on file, so it's usually not an issue to get a barrel from him in around ~2 weeks or less.

It is interesting that some places are now untrusting of action spec's. I wonder what they've seen.

 

[Hawk in WY]

I bought X barrels from Bobs Barrels n Shit and they always headspaced and timed so the engraving was at 9 o clock. Now I get a new barrel from Bobs Barrels n Shit and it times at 6 o clock.

I have been buying Proof pre-fit carbon barrels for several years. They always headspace correctly and the caliber engraving was visible at around 10 o'clock. The latest barrel I received this week headspaced fine but the caliber engraving was at 6 o'clock.

To me, and I guess only me, that's a problem.

 

[kthomas]

The engraving is annoying, but not a functional concern if everything else checks out.

I'm more interested in finding out why places that cut prefits for actions now no longer trust the tolerances of said actions.

 

[Taylorbok]

I'm also guessing I'm the only one who has more than one rifle and would like to be able to identify the caliber by looking at the barrel.

I have a safe full of guns 17 ish around 10 rifles, no I don't need to analyze the barrel stamp to remember what chambering is in them.
I even have a rifle that I swap barrels to a different caliber.

 

[Taylorbok]

I'm more interested in finding out why places that cut prefits for actions now no longer trust the tolerances of said actions.

IMO they must have had some issues where they aren't fitting properly

 

[S3th]

Personal problem.

 

[AllenOne1]

So did you send the barrel back? Or are you going to use an unsafe barrel?

 

[srt-4_uk]

I'm not a huge fan of prefits mostly because I have no control over what barrel and chamber specs are used.

I prefer to have my chambers cut specifically for the projectiles I'm shooting.

None of that has anything to do with whether a barrel is a prefit or not.

 

[kthomas]

None of that has anything to do with whether a barrel is a prefit or not.

It certainly applies to off the shelf prefits.

Pretty sure I can't order a proof prefit to my desired specs for 6BRA, for example. If I can even get a 6BRA from them. And many times, they are cut with generic SAAMI chamber specs.

Some places do have "custom" prefits, like PVA. I guess that's essentially what I do with my gunsmith, since I'm not sending in my action every time.

There's a huge range to "prefits", and when most people talk about prefits, they are usually talking about a prefit thats hanging out on a shelf somewhere. The biggest selling point to prefits is that people can buy a barrel off the shelf and have it sent to them right away.

Personally, I would not buy a "prefit" from almost any outfit.

 

[Hawk in WY]

So did you send the barrel back? Or are you going to use an unsafe barrel?

I don't know yet. I will probably have it re-engraved where I can see the caliber designation and drive on.

 

[Hawk in WY]

I have a safe full of guns 17 ish around 10 rifles, no I don't need to analyze the barrel stamp to remember what chambering is in them.
I even have a rifle that I swap barrels to a different caliber.

You are a better man than I, Gunga Din.

 

[AllenOne1]

I don't know yet. I will probably have it re-engraved where I can see the caliber designation and drive on.

Will you ever be happy with that barrel knowing that it isn't fit up correctly? If you have that stuck in your mind you should get it replaced now and move on.

 

[srt-4_uk]

It certainly applies to off the shelf prefits.

Pretty sure I can't order a proof prefit to my desired specs for 6BRA, for example. If I can even get a 6BRA from them. And many times, they are cut with generic SAAMI chamber specs.

Some places do have "custom" prefits, like PVA. I guess that's essentially what I do with my gunsmith, since I'm not sending in my action every time.

There's a huge range to "prefits", and when most people talk about prefits, they are usually talking about a prefit thats hanging out on a shelf somewhere. The biggest selling point to prefits is that people can buy a barrel off the shelf and have it sent to them right away.

All I was getting at is that prefit simply means the gunsmith doesn't have or hasn't had your action in hand to cut a barrel. Off the shelf prefit or custom prefit doesn't change that.
When I order a custom prefit, I can still enjoy my rifle while that barrel is being made. To me, that's the biggest selling point.

 

[Hawk in WY]

Will you ever be happy with that barrel knowing that it isn't fit up correctly? If you have that stuck in your mind you should get it replaced now and move on.

Headspace is fine. I'm fine with having it re-engraved where I can see it. Barrels are disposables around here.

Lesson learned. No more "pre-fit" barrels for me.

 

[b6graham]

this is probably why Proof went to the circumferential action/cartridge/twist markings

but of course people bitch about the aesthetics of that too

20 seconds with a dremel fixes this btw...more time than you've spent on this thread...not to nitpick

 

[chevy_man]

I bought X barrels from Bobs Barrels n Shit and they always headspaced and timed so the engraving was at 9 o clock. Now I get a new barrel from Bobs Barrels n Shit and it times at 6 o clock.

I have been buying Proof pre-fit carbon barrels for several years. They always headspace correctly and the caliber engraving was visible at around 10 o'clock. The latest barrel I received this week headspaced fine but the caliber engraving was at 6 o'clock.

To me, and I guess only me, that's a problem.

You got stupid lucky to have any pre-fit engraving where you could see it. Just loading the barrels in the machine, it's not like they're going to time the threads to the engraving so likely every one is different.

Only way to ensure the engraving is visible is to headspace the barrel, screw it into the action, and then engrave in a visible space.


I don't think I have a single pre-fit or remage that ended up with engraving I could see.

I also don't build the same rifle over and over so I know which one I picked up and I never even think to look at the barrel.


If you want to be that picky then you're not the target consumer for a pre-fit. Go back to a good gunsmith and your problems will be resolved.

 

[aviumvenator]

. The latest barrel I received this week headspaced fine but the caliber engraving was at 6 o'clock.

Might have mixed up a barrel for an Aussie order…

I am in the process of ordering some prefit barrels and it would be nice to know who the company is so I do t order from them before they make it public.

 

[LV Precision]

I'm guessing it's only me who hears from their major barrel supplier that they can no longer supply pre-fit barrels because actions including Impact and ARC are not up to their standards and thinks that is a problem.

I'm very curious who's saying that Impact doesn't hold tolerances. Either name the person/company that says this, or it's just made up BS.

My 3 actions, 5 bolts, and 15 pre-fit barrels say Impacts hold tolerances just fine.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I don't know yet. I will probably have it re-engraved where I can see the caliber designation and drive on.

Then what's the problem?
Spend $20 to have it engraved.
If you don't want this issue, then either send the action in, or buy an action with timed threads.



Timed action threads and a barrel that was "prefit" without the smith ever having touched the action.

 

[Hawk in WY]

I'm very curious who's saying that Impact doesn't hold tolerances. Either name the person/company that says this, or it's just made up BS.

My 3 actions, 5 bolts, and 15 pre-fit barrels say Impacts hold tolerances just fine.

That's not exactly what I said. I said the supplier will want the action in hand in the future before supplying a barrel.

My Impact actions have also worked fine with pre-fits in the past.

 

[LV Precision]

That's not exactly what I said. I said the supplier will want the action in hand in the future before supplying a barrel.

My Impact actions have also worked fine with pre-fits in the past.

So who's the barrel supplier? Stop beating around the bush. If it's really an issue, wouldn't you want others to know?

 

[CaptNemo]

If the barrel headspaces properly then here's your simple solution:

 

[Hawk in WY]

LRI I have nothing but very good things to say about the quality of their work and turnaround times even in trying times.

But let me be very clear: They did not comment on the quality of any action. What they said was they wanted the action in hand before providing a barrel. I am not making a public announcement on their behalf just reporting my recent experience.

 

[NewsShooter]

You should send the barrel to me, I'm more than capable of making it work for me.

 

[Long Range 338]

Not to throw salt in the wound but I've never seen any manufacturer of prefits make a claim about the timing of the engraving being guaranteed. Sounds like you had a run of luck with them lining up at 10 o'clock...

LRI also told an associate of mine they wanted the action in hand to make a prefit for a Mausingfield, so its probably across the board, not just with one brand of action.

 

[NewsShooter]

It certainly applies to off the shelf prefits.

Pretty sure I can't order a proof prefit to my desired specs for 6BRA, for example. If I can even get a 6BRA from them. And many times, they are cut with generic SAAMI chamber specs.

Some places do have "custom" prefits, like PVA. I guess that's essentially what I do with my gunsmith, since I'm not sending in my action every time.

There's a huge range to "prefits", and when most people talk about prefits, they are usually talking about a prefit thats hanging out on a shelf somewhere. The biggest selling point to prefits is that people can buy a barrel off the shelf and have it sent to them right away.

Personally, I would not buy a "prefit" from almost any outfit.

When I purchased a 7 saum prefit for my tikka, I sent in a dummy round for them to use. Easy Peasy.

 

[b6graham]

Not to throw salt in the wound but I've never seen any manufacturer of prefits make a claim about the timing of the engraving being guaranteed. Sounds like you had a run of luck with them lining up at 10 o'clock...

LRI also told an associate of mine they wanted the action in hand to make a prefit for a Mausingfield, so its probably across the board, not just with one brand of action.

this

if it were a ruckus/tenacity thread and there were headspace problems this would be more interesting

 

[fdkay]

"Problems"

First World Problems.
I feel for the OP though, I ordered a half-sheet birthday cake, it was supposed to be 13x18 inches, but it was 12 7/8 x 17 15/16.

 

[Trever]

I’ve used several prefits on 3 different actions and they all shoot awesome. Sometimes the evening doesn’t line up but it’s not a big deal to me. Personal preference.

 

[fdkay]

I’ve used several prefits on 3 different actions and they all shoot awesome. Sometimes the evening doesn’t line up but it’s not a big deal to me. Personal preference.

if you are going to want the engraving t oline up everytime, they will need the action to take measurements for THAT action.
two actions, built consecutively, one right after the other, using the same program, will have different dimensions.

 

[DocRDS]

OP kinda taking a beating, but lets stop being a bunch of nancies about not naming names. We're grown ups. If LRI wants the action, they have their reasons. They may even comment "So we can time them stupid scrub!" or "Because its Tuesday dumbass!"

But a community works best when we are open and honest. Frank called out MDT and their plastic mags in a podcast. I bet MDT would like to know that so they can fix it. I've had all sorts of problems. Sometimes when I mention the company, the company rep comes in and says "Dude let me square you away"

Also example: Beragara accuracy--paint on the action/lugs. Lots of people report it. Now I know if my son's isn't up to stuff to go clean off the offending paint. I don't even have to post.

This ain't M4carbine.net where you have to suck the dick of some mfg sponsor. (Tikka can kiss my ass!)

 

[Marksman]

Then what's the problem?
Spend $20 to have it engraved.

Old Shilen savage pre-fits were marked with an electro stencil on the breech. I ended up using a high tech method or identification.

 

[308pirate]

but lets stop being a bunch of nancies about not naming names.

Amen. Come here and complain about something then not naming names (after a reasonable effort at resolution if appropriate) is lame.

I can't take people who do that seriously.

 

[308pirate]

This is just a theory of mine and I have no evidence to back it up.

I think that the action makers collectively have made or implied some claims about dimensional repeatability that maybe now, after more and more experience barreling said actions is proving to not be as repeatable as previously thought.

Again, no proof. Just trying to guess why "unnamed prefit barrel maker" now wants to see actions before making a barrel for it.

 

[reubenski]

This thread is lame. And this is diva level consumerism: "I wonder what they think I should do with an unusable barrel."