Precision AR10 Build

[Bonecollecter92]

Hey y'all I'm new here and I have some questions for the experts.

I have a Remington 700 build that was put together by a supposed prodigy gun smith in my area for a .5 moa experience. (Bartlein barrels, WTO switch lug, masterpiece arms MPA chassis, the whole deal.) I have NOT experienced the desired results with this $5,000+ "special build", yet I have seen those results from my stock Remington .270 that I have owned for over a decade. At this point I'm looking to sell my custom rifle in exchange for a sub moa AR10 build in either 6.5 cm or .308. The practical use I'm looking for out of this new rifle is primarily whitetail hunting out to 300-400 yards and recreational steel target practice out to 850-1000.

If anyone has recommendations for a budget friendly sub moa build it would be extremely appreciated. I do intend to keep my Spuhr mount.

Thanks for your time and recommendations.

 

[owtlaw]

I've had good luck with my Aero Precision build. 22" 6.5 Cr. I upgraded my trigger to a Rise Armament was about all. It can hold .5 moa until it gets hot then it opens to .8.

 

[stevieb92]

I've had good results from my Mega Arms MATEN with a BA 22 inch heavy barrel, but maybe I got lucky with my results? It seems there are mixed results with BA, but I've been impressed with the barrel for the money. I was able to purchase it back in 2017 for a sweet price on a group buy, but I don't know if I would recommend it today unless you're willing to take a chance.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...vantage-barrel-140-eld-m-h4350-loads.6392411/

I have another build in progress with another Mega Arms (now Zev) MATEN and an X-Caliber barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor. I should be shooting it in the next few months. X-Caliber is very good quality and you can customize your barrel. I've got two of their barrels (6 ARC and 308 Win) and both are sub moa shooters. Watch them around the Christmas holiday for a sweet sale.

An Aero Precision receiver set using their enhanced mounting style is another good alternative to Mega Arms MATEN.

Whichever receiver set you go for, spend the money on JP full mass HP bcg and a good trigger (e.g. Triggertech or LaRue MBT 2S for a few bucks less).

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You’re setting yourself up for failure V2.0 by looking for a budget large frame. Large frame rifles worth owning start at around $2500 whether they’re built or bought. They also end up being pretty heavy.

A small frame will do what you’re wanting to do and you can set something up for a much lower cost and it won’t be nearly as heavy unless you spec it to me.

 

[sinister]

The heart of any precision rifle is the barrel and how it is finished.

If you want a precision self-loader you're going to need to find a precision machinist-gunsmith who specializes in autoloaders. These tend to be National Match highpower shooters -- they've learned by trial-and-error and collaboration. Ammunition quality is a big factor.

They tend to finish more expensive and heavier than expected.

A decent auto-loader can do better than minute-of-angle, depending on the shooters' skill. The standard hammer firing mechanism (vice a bolt-action straight in-line striker) is the auto-loader's weak spot.

John Holliger, John Scandale, Frank White, a number of others are good starting points.

A matching set of Diamondback receivers is less than $300.

I built my son's Camp Perry rifle one-piece-at-a-time:

 

[KYAggie]

You’re setting yourself up for failure V2.0 by looking for a budget large frame. Large frame rifles worth owning start at around $2500 whether they’re built or bought. They also end up being pretty heavy.

A small frame will do what you’re wanting to do and you can set something up for a much lower cost and it won’t be nearly as heavy unless you spec it to me.

He’s right ya know. I would track down exactly why your rifle build isn’t performing as expected; for the money and give stated components, even with the R700 action, it should. I’m a little confused as to why any supposedly renown gunsmith would build a $5000 rifle on a R700 action instead of one of several custom actions readily available, but I digress.

You could build a budget large frame, but you’ll likely not be thrilled with the results and it will be heavy. If you go the budget route, at least do not go budget with the barrel. At least get a Criterion.

You can build them light, but it’s costly. Here’s a link to one I built in 2018. I followed that with a 16” 308 that weighs just under 6#. Both of them shoot well enough, right at 1 moa and slightly under. Considering they have Faxon barrels, which I’ve learned since don’t exactly have a great reputation, I can’t complain, but I’m sure they would do better with a higher quality barrel.

Lightweight 2A Arms Xanthos 6.5 CM Build

First, I want to say this is ALL Breastroker’s fault on M14forum. I had not given the AR10 platform the slightest look of interest because they are as heavy as the M14/M1A and they are not standardized as far as parts go; why bother was how I saw it, so I continued playing with the M14/M1A...

www.snipershide.com

 

[db2000]

He’s right ya know. I would track down exactly why your rifle build isn’t performing as expected; for the money and give stated components, even with the R700 action, it should. I’m a little confused as to why any supposedly renown gunsmith would build a $5000 rifle on a R700 action instead of one of several custom actions readily available, but I digress.

You could build a budget large frame, but you’ll likely not be thrilled with the results and it will be heavy. If you go the budget route, at least do not go budget with the barrel. At least get a Criterion.

That was my first of many questions.
Also, I agree with not skimping on a large frame. Find a recipe, using the search function, that has worked for others and replicate that. Even easier, buy a good quality large frame from the PX that’s a known shooter.

 

[Bonecollecter92]

You’re setting yourself up for failure V2.0 by looking for a budget large frame. Large frame rifles worth owning start at around $2500 whether they’re built or bought. They also end up being pretty heavy.

A small frame will do what you’re wanting to do and you can set something up for a much lower cost and it won’t be nearly as heavy unless you spec it to me.

Given the $5000 spent on the previous rifle I would consider $2500-3000 to be budget friendly comparatively. I’ve been considering the DD5 platform from Daniel Defense but I also wonder how much of that cost is due to the name and not necessarily the quality. I’m also not as concerned about the weight as just about anything will be lighter than the Remington 700 with the Bartlein heavy barrels and MPA chassis.

 

[Bonecollecter92]

He’s right ya know. I would track down exactly why your rifle build isn’t performing as expected; for the money and give stated components, even with the R700 action, it should. I’m a little confused as to why any supposedly renown gunsmith would build a $5000 rifle on a R700 action instead of one of several custom actions readily available, but I digress.

You could build a budget large frame, but you’ll likely not be thrilled with the results and it will be heavy. If you go the budget route, at least do not go budget with the barrel. At least get a Criterion.

You can build them light, but it’s costly. Here’s a link to one I built in 2018. I followed that with a 16” 308 that weighs just under 6#. Both of them shoot well enough, right at 1 moa and slightly under. Considering they have Faxon barrels, which I’ve learned since don’t exactly have a great reputation, I can’t complain, but I’m sure they would do better with a higher quality barrel.

Lightweight 2A Arms Xanthos 6.5 CM Build

First, I want to say this is ALL Breastroker’s fault on M14forum. I had not given the AR10 platform the slightest look of interest because they are as heavy as the M14/M1A and they are not standardized as far as parts go; why bother was how I saw it, so I continued playing with the M14/M1A...

www.snipershide.com

The R700 and most of the parts were provided by me, primarily due to already having one on hand and my history of reliability with them. The gunsmith assembled the components and ordered and milled the barrels from Bartlein. I do have reason to believe the performance changed when the West Texas Ordinance switch lug was added. Prior to this it was performing as expected out to 1000, as was my shooting buddies rifle who has almost an identical build. WTO does advertise a sub moa repeatability, but I believe this may have been the gunsmiths first time with these parts… hindsight is 20/20.

I’ll give it a look, I appreciate the link and your advice.

 

[FredHammer]

The R700 and most of the parts were provided by me, primarily due to already having one on hand and my history of reliability with them. The gunsmith assembled the components and ordered and milled the barrels from Bartlein. I do have reason to believe the performance changed when the West Texas Ordinance switch lug was added. Prior to this it was performing as expected out to 1000, as was my shooting buddies rifle who has almost an identical build. WTO does advertise a sub moa repeatability, but I believe this may have been the gunsmiths first time with these parts… hindsight is 20/20.

I’ll give it a look, I appreciate the link and your advice.

THIS.

 

[FWoo45]

What about the nut behind the gun? Is your rifle actually the weak link? Gas guns are harder to shoot well. For what it's worth, I've had good luck with Bartleins from Precision Firearms.

 

[Bonecollecter92]

THIS.

Forgive my ignorance regarding the installation process of this, but once the WTO switch lug is installed, is it a permanent fixture on the rifle or can it be uninstalled?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Given the $5000 spent on the previous rifle I would consider $2500-3000 to be budget friendly comparatively. I’ve been considering the DD5 platform from Daniel Defense but I also wonder how much of that cost is due to the name and not necessarily the quality. I’m also not as concerned about the weight as just about anything will be lighter than the Remington 700 with the Bartlein heavy barrels and MPA chassis.

In that price range the SP10 is the king. It’s one of the best large frames at any price point.

I’d still buy a small frame though, you don’t need a 308 to hunt deer and shoot steel to the distances you’re looking at.

 

[FredHammer]

Forgive my ignorance regarding the installation process of this, but once the WTO switch lug is installed, is it a permanent fixture on the rifle or can it be uninstalled?

So, this thread just made me aware of the existence of the switch lug, and after researching it this morning I have little faith in that system, and this switch lug was immediately the focus of my troubleshooting your rig. So this is a rapid research and assessment of this take of mine here. It appears a receiver has pins installed and the switch lug is anchored to the receiver by 2-3 of these pins. To reverse engineer the design I would think the pins would either need to be removed or cut flush off the receiver face. This is also very dependent on how this smith installed this system and if he did it right. That's unknown data to us right now.

If you take the barrel out of the receiver, and the receiver out of the action:

- Does the lug just slide off the pins? If yes,
- Are the pins press fit, or epoxied in place?

Ultimately it would be best case scenario if you could just remove this system and run a standard pre-fit barrel. However, it sure would be nice to know if the receiver face is true. Did drilling the pin holes fuck things up?

Lots I don't know, but this is how I would go about this before dumping money into another venture as a remedy.

 

[BCP]

That lug thing looks like a solution in search of a problem. It sucks spending that kind of money and not getting results. A good smith would take it back and troubleshoot it for you imho. Especially if he guaranteed 1/2moa accuracy out of it.