I (finally) got my bighorn origin yesterday and to my dismay, I can't for the life of me screw the barrel on. I can start threading it on but about 1/12 of a turn in it just stops hard, almost like it's crossthreaded but yet not and my action is perfectly straight inline with my barrel. The Origin is supposed to take 1.055" x 20tpi threads and to the best of my measurements my barrel is exactly that. I did grease the threads and even went so far as removing the rail off the action but that didn't change anything. I'm just stuck. Is there something I could be doing wrong or something I should try doing, or do I need to contact preferred barrel blanks about it or take it to a gunsmith to try and sort out?
- Thread starter paulwardd
- Start date
We'd be happy to send a return label to inspect the action in the event something wasn't perfect there. Shoot us an email and we'll take care of you.
[email protected]
[email protected]
Not the first time a pbb has been cut incorrectly for a thread class. Probably a class 2 instead of class 3 or pitch is off slightly or something a plain caliper cant realize.
If the tolerance class is not the same on both inside and outside threads, you will almost certainly have a problem that feels like cross threading even though it isn't.
Prefit barrels are great if you don’t wanna wait but sometimes you run into this. The actions all have slightly different measurements. Most of the time their measurements are close enough to each other that barrels can be chambered and threaded without the action in hand. However every now and again a action and barrel don’t fit. Not a problem with the action or barrel just one of those things. I’m sure they’ll get you taken care of. I personally prefer a custom fit barrel over prefit but that’s just me.
You hit the nail on the head man. 3 wires will tell the story
No way. No fucking way.
Two correctly made threads of the same tolerance class will screw together every single time.
Every single fucking time.
You've been fed a bucket of bullshit if someone has made you think that a barrel's threads need to be fitted to the receiver.
This is something that I have more than an amateur's knowledge of.
a set of go/no go ring or plug gages inspects every single thread feature in one pass. Wires only tell you pitch diameter. There's a lot more than that to thread (and spline) inspection.
I was being nice and trying not to bust the machinist’s nads. We both know if that machinist had checked his threads with the 3 wires or go/no-go gauges it would fit or at least they would know it was the action that’s threads were out of spec. Threads should always be checked before sending a part out and we know that. Not knowing which one is out I didn’t think it would be fair to put it all on the guy that threaded it.
You know it’s accepted practice to thread the barrel using the action as the gauge since it’s only for that particular action. I prefer this method myself.
You’re absolutely right about threads mating together. That’s the reason they created thread specifications so a part made in one place will fit when it’s shipped out to BFE.
He might as well send them his action because that’s the only way to make sure that barrel fits when he gets it back. Since it could still be the actions threads that are the problem.
I don’t know, just something I heard. I bought a mill and lathe last year and have learned a enough to be dangerous 
. I did however recognize the problem that the op described. Considering the number of prefit barrels sold I’m surprised there’s not more problems.
. I did however recognize the problem that the op described. Considering the number of prefit barrels sold I’m surprised there’s not more problems. It most certainly is a problem, this threads existence being example number one.
I had a barrel that was cut too small once. It would thread on, stay in, and tighten up against the barrel nut...but just didn't seem right. And it took like 6+ mils of off center scope adjustment to line it up. I bought a cheap 3 wire set off FleaBay and verified it. Just for the sake of learning you should give it a shot and see how it measures...
I understand what you’re saying. However the barrel maker offered to make good on it and that’s all that can be done. The barrel is still good and so is the action but it needs additional attention. I didn’t think it appropriate to beat up on the prefit barrel maker or the action maker because we don’t know which part is the problem.
Preferred Barrels are garbage and their CS is for shit. $400 lesson I hope to never repeat. @paulwardd I would recommend another barrel maker. I use Anthony Ward at Crown Ridge Barrel Works. He can do a shouldered barrel for the Origin and the TL3 or barrel nut. He uses X-Caliber blanks and I have yet to have one of his barrels not shoot. His pricing is nice too, around $360 or $450 barrel nut vs shouldered shipped. He is also fast. Typically has many barrel nut barrels ready to go in stock but if he has to chamber one it is typically a day or 2 turn around.
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Those are good prices and fast turnaround times. I have a couple of pva shouldered prefits and they’re fine but it can’t be easy to get them right without the action in hand. Anyone who ever turned a barrel for a Remington 700 knows how difficult it must be to make shouldered prefit barrels.
See, this ^^^ is why I went with a Big Horn.
That said, if it's the barrel... I can also co-sign Anthony at Crown Ridge Barrel Works, I've had 2 of his barrels (that he shipped out within 24 hours of me ordering) and both shot as good or better than the Bartlein and Proof barrels I have.
Ive had great luck with the Prefits I’ve ran Shot .2-.3’s with Hornady factory ammo straight out the box. Majority done by Altus.
Only reason I’m doing a custom fit barrel in my 7Max is I have a R700 donor rifle for it. Thought about selling it and just running a Bighorn simply to avoid it all together.
Pretty much everyone did until the "modern" class of actions came on the market and pre-fits became a thing.
There's a potential clearance of nearly .009" between a 1.0625"-16 3A and 3B thread pitch. Some people that know they won't be moving barrels between actions still like a "custom" thread fit.
Edited: missed a zero, crashed machine….
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Using your numbers his class 3a barrel threads of 1.060-16 would have had a bit more than 9 thousandths of clearance with the actions class 3b major thread diameter of 1.625. However, you’re right the difference between the 3a and 3b threads is what insures a proper fit. I knew what you meant even though I think you messed up the number a little.
I’m one of those that likes a custom fit but from everything I’ve been told and read I don’t think it makes a bit of difference but I don’t know.
I’m one of those that likes a custom fit but from everything I’ve been told and read I don’t think it makes a bit of difference but I don’t know.
Yep, missed a zero, crashed the machine!
There’s still a lot of people out there that want a custom fit, and as long as they know there’s no guarantee of it interchanging with another action, there’s really nothing wrong with it.
But a pre-fit needs to be in spec, as does the action.
I agree. I seen bighorn offered to take a look at his action so they want to know if it’s a problem with their product. However, I’m not sure where the prefit came from.
If I was to hazard a guess I’d say the barrel threads aren’t to spec. and if that’s the case it would be nice to know who sold the barrel and how they treat him.
It’s in the OP, preferred barrel blanks which is a relatively new operation.
Maybe they’ll treat him right and take care of it. I’d be mad about having to ship it back but I don’t know what else he should do. If they aren’t really nice or helpful I’d probably want a refund because of the loss of confidence in them and their work product.
They do have a good customer service rep from what I can remember from their thread so I’m sure they’ll treat him right.
I’ve had to send barrels back from outfits as well, it happens from time to time. It’s unfortunate but I’ve never had any ultimately bad experiences.
While that’s going on I’d probably send the action back just in case if it’s my first ever or I didn’t have an otherwise confirmed savage barrel available (like from the pile in the corner) to test with.
Crown Ridge is the cat's pajamas.
I bought an origin and a prefit from him last year. He spun up the barrel in about 48 hours and headspaced/assembled it for me free of charge. Prices were dirt cheap for what you get too. Nothing but good things to say.
I still love my criterions, but when I spin up another budget barrel Anthony's getting my money.
I totally agree with you and it’s good to hear that they take care of their customers. I have a couple from pva that are fine. Pva had some problems later on with the numbers they were using for Tenacity actions. They got with defiance and fixed the problem. Like you said, these things do happen. The important part is they took care of it. Considering what you said, I’m confident Preferred will get him squared away.
I’m no gunsmith or machinist but I think we all try to hit our dimension when threading. However it’ll be a long time before I’m comfortable threading a barrel without the action in hand. That’s why I’m not bashing the hell out of the guy. Then again I’m not selling prefit barrels either
I’m no gunsmith or machinist but I think we all try to hit our dimension when threading. However it’ll be a long time before I’m comfortable threading a barrel without the action in hand. That’s why I’m not bashing the hell out of the guy. Then again I’m not selling prefit barrels either
Sorry for the late update but I finally got it all dealt with.
I emailed Preferred about the problem and Bryce offered to have me send the barrel and action to him to figure out what's going on. I just got everything back today. As it turns out, the threads were oversized. He corrected those, and also torqued the action on and checked headspace on the barrel before sending it back out to me. Also threw in a shirt in the box. Not quite what I wanted to have to deal with, but they were quick with fixing their mistake and getting it back to me, so it all ends well.
I emailed Preferred about the problem and Bryce offered to have me send the barrel and action to him to figure out what's going on. I just got everything back today. As it turns out, the threads were oversized. He corrected those, and also torqued the action on and checked headspace on the barrel before sending it back out to me. Also threw in a shirt in the box. Not quite what I wanted to have to deal with, but they were quick with fixing their mistake and getting it back to me, so it all ends well.
That’s great they got you squared away. Unfortunately stuff happens. QC needs improvement but it sounds like good customer service.
I worked (retired now) as a Prog Mang for some very high tech telecom core network equip companies. Very demanding customers of very high value equip and svc.
EVERYBODY will let a flaw out the door once in a while, even Neutron Jack Welch. The DIFFERENCE is in how they go about correcting it.
Sounds like Preferred Barrel did right by you.
I am glad it worked out.
I personally would of asked for a new blank to be cut. I don't know how they set up their blanks in the machine.......but the odds of getting that barrel lined up EXACTLY how it was when chambered is slim. Granted you may not see the difference on target (those of us in it long enough have seen some real abortions still shoot OK).
Maybe I am being to picky???
Let us know how it turns out.
Ern
I personally would of asked for a new blank to be cut. I don't know how they set up their blanks in the machine.......but the odds of getting that barrel lined up EXACTLY how it was when chambered is slim. Granted you may not see the difference on target (those of us in it long enough have seen some real abortions still shoot OK).
Maybe I am being to picky???
Let us know how it turns out.
Ern
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Na you aren’t being too picky. I wouldn’t want that barrel either. They probably assembled it so he wouldn’t see the affected area. You can pick a thread back up and make a few more passes but it takes a little patience and effort. If he’s happy with how it shoots that’s all that matters. However he’s done everyone a solid by sharing his experience. Prefits are convenient but IMO you’re better off in many ways with a custom fit barrel.
I would ask for the same. Paid for new stuff not overhauled fuck ups. Just my 2 cents
You’re right. I’ve seen some messed up barrels shoot surprisingly good but he paid full price not a reduced price. I probably would have asked for a refund or at least a partial refund.
None of my money invested. Glad they got the bbl to make up to action. If he’s happy great, me, I’d want a new bbl spun up that’s right, problem free. Makes no sense why they wouldn’t have done that from the get go.
I’d break the bbl off and have a look at the threads, check action and make it back up to see how it goes together at the very least..
I’d break the bbl off and have a look at the threads, check action and make it back up to see how it goes together at the very least..
Why mess with it if they assembled it for you? Shoot it, and if it's a shooter, leave it alone until you need to replace the barrel. If it shoots way off, then take it apart and see what it looks like
Is that what's normally done when an. Uh-oh happens? Surely every shop has something like this happen at some point? Is that how y'all handled a similar issue? (Not trying to start anything so PM if need be, I. Am just curious if it's "standard" to replace a barrel when there's an issue that would require the barrel to be rechucked?)
Stuff happens and they corrected the mistake and both parties are happy. End of story
I’d say you’re being too picky.
If you don’t trust the builder to re-setup their work in the lathe, you probably shouldn’t have trusted them the first time.
I would trust my guy to do it. Of course my guy is Eric at Blue Mountain Precision, and he's probably the most meticulous person I've ever met. I can see how someone would be a little sketchy if it's the first time working with the guy though too, that's why I wanted to know what "common practice" would be on something like that.
I guess I am too picky.
I'll eat the cost of a barrel blank to maintain a reputation.
I hope the barrel is fixed and shoots great.
Cheers.
I'll eat the cost of a barrel blank to maintain a reputation.
I hope the barrel is fixed and shoots great.
Cheers.
On a brand new, never installed barrel, can I ask what you feel the difference would be to take an additional .002”-.005” of thread pitch off in the original set-up vs a re-setup?
If your first set-up was good, there should be absolutely no difference.
Like I said, I am too picky.
My beef is with re-setup. To get it EXACTLY to the original position. I don't know how the builder sets up, but getting it to the EXACT same place is difficult if not impossible.......including the error/acceptable tolerance that was most likely in the original set up. For example, if the original setup had a .0001" of runout......it should have .0001" of runout in the new setup....and be in the same location.....PRETTY DIFFICULT HUH?
Not to mention chasing threads absolutely perfect. If you look closely you can ALWAYS tell the threads have been chased.
Does any of this cause inaccuracy.......maybe/maybe not. Is the machining quality less than it would be if it was done correctly in the original setup......sure is.
Like I said before, I have seen some complete dogshit work still shoot. Let me be clear, I am not saying this builder does dogshit work......or the fix is dogshit......just making a broadstroke comment about machining quality vs on target performance.
At the end of the day, if the builder is happy with his work and the customer is happy with the work he paid for.......all is well.
Ern
My beef is with re-setup. To get it EXACTLY to the original position. I don't know how the builder sets up, but getting it to the EXACT same place is difficult if not impossible.......including the error/acceptable tolerance that was most likely in the original set up. For example, if the original setup had a .0001" of runout......it should have .0001" of runout in the new setup....and be in the same location.....PRETTY DIFFICULT HUH?
Not to mention chasing threads absolutely perfect. If you look closely you can ALWAYS tell the threads have been chased.
Does any of this cause inaccuracy.......maybe/maybe not. Is the machining quality less than it would be if it was done correctly in the original setup......sure is.
Like I said before, I have seen some complete dogshit work still shoot. Let me be clear, I am not saying this builder does dogshit work......or the fix is dogshit......just making a broadstroke comment about machining quality vs on target performance.
At the end of the day, if the builder is happy with his work and the customer is happy with the work he paid for.......all is well.
Ern
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Why is it easy to set up
If you could get it EXACTLY where you wanted it the first time, I am still failing to see how you couldn't get it right back there? And the thread profile and pitch is not changing not changing. Taking a few+ thousands of pitch off in a second set-up should look exactly how they looked if you took a few+ thousands of pitch off in the first set up.
I'm clearly missing something obvious here, but it seems if you can not get a second set-up the same as the first, either the first set-up was bad or both are.
If you could get it EXACTLY where you wanted it the first time, I am still failing to see how you couldn't get it right back there? And the thread profile and pitch is not changing not changing. Taking a few+ thousands of pitch off in a second set-up should look exactly how they looked if you took a few+ thousands of pitch off in the first set up.
I'm clearly missing something obvious here, but it seems if you can not get a second set-up the same as the first, either the first set-up was bad or both are.
I’m a barrel cutting noob and I re indicated a barrel to where a .0005 indicator needle basically wasn’t moving.
Between the bore and any other concentric areas it’s fairly easy.
Steelhead - I'm talking a .0001" indicator with the shortest needle possible. When you start using a .0005" (or larger) indicator with long needles (not sure what you used) the ACTUAL indicator accuracy gets pretty large......given the work we are doing.
Again, just my$.02.......take it for what it is.
Ern
Again, just my$.02.......take it for what it is.
Ern
I use a short stem .0001 interapid and a .0005 long stem interapid.
Quite honestly after comparing the two I almost never use the short stem anymore because the long stem is so convenient and I can get setups plenty good to satisfy the short stems scrutiny.
I’m sure if I was measuring space craft parts the situation would be different but barrels aren’t rockets.
I think we are beating a dead horse.
We (I) may very well be chasing variables that have no on-target influence.
I think you proved my original point though. You said the longer needle coarser increment indicator setup is good 'nuff for the task you are working on. My original comment was exactly that. There is NON-PERFECT indication in setup1 and there is NON-PERFECT indication in setup2.
Again, if I ordered a barrel.......I prefer it have ONE round of NON-PERFECT indication as opposed to TWO........if only for my own piece of mind.
Ern
We (I) may very well be chasing variables that have no on-target influence.
I think you proved my original point though. You said the longer needle coarser increment indicator setup is good 'nuff for the task you are working on. My original comment was exactly that. There is NON-PERFECT indication in setup1 and there is NON-PERFECT indication in setup2.
Again, if I ordered a barrel.......I prefer it have ONE round of NON-PERFECT indication as opposed to TWO........if only for my own piece of mind.
Ern
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