Ok, I have seen the great write ups on the hensoldts and the premiers that have been talked about here on the hide. My question is that I am on the look out for a new high end scope. I have a couple of zeiss's but nothing that is on par with the newer ones. I have some of the older german ones and I think they are awesome. I do not know how they would rate with the diavari's/premiers of today as of yet. I want to get one of these new scopes, either the premier 5x25 or the hensoldt 4x16 or 6x24. Are either of them decidely better than the other? For the cost of the hensoldt, I could be well on my way to the second of the premiers. Are they really any better? From what I have seen, the premiers have awesome glass which should be on par with the zeiss/hensoldt glass. Are the hensoldt's tougher or built better or should I save some cash and get the premier which from what has been posted is an outstanding scope?
Rifle Scopes premier vs hensoldt
Re: premier vs hensoldt
I have not used either, or even seen a new model Hensoldt, however from what I have heard the glass in Premier is a bit better (and it is great glass=at least as good as S&B IMHO) and is very durable. The Hensoldt is claimed to be a bit more rugged, and quite a bit more expensive. Run it over with a tank retriever and dust it off kind of durability
. Like I say I have no experience with either, but for my money the Premier is the way to go, I have a 5x25x56mm on order right now. Be prepared to wait about 1-2 mo. for delivery though.
I have not used either, or even seen a new model Hensoldt, however from what I have heard the glass in Premier is a bit better (and it is great glass=at least as good as S&B IMHO) and is very durable. The Hensoldt is claimed to be a bit more rugged, and quite a bit more expensive. Run it over with a tank retriever and dust it off kind of durability
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maverick223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not used either, or even seen a new model Hensoldt, however from what I have heard the glass in Premier is a bit better (and it is great glass=at least as good as S&B IMHO) and is very durable. The Hensoldt is claimed to be a bit more rugged, and quite a bit more expensive. Run it over with a tank retriever and dust it off kind of durability . Like I say I have no experience with either, but for my money the Premier is the way to go, I have a 5x25x56mm on order right now. Be prepared to wait about 1-2 mo. for delivery though. </div></div>
I would look at both scopes before you say which one is better. I have seen both scopes.. I have used all the high end scopes. Like I said you need to see them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maverick223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not used either, or even seen a new model Hensoldt, however from what I have heard the glass in Premier is a bit better (and it is great glass=at least as good as S&B IMHO) and is very durable. The Hensoldt is claimed to be a bit more rugged, and quite a bit more expensive. Run it over with a tank retriever and dust it off kind of durability
I would look at both scopes before you say which one is better. I have seen both scopes.. I have used all the high end scopes. Like I said you need to see them.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maverick223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not used either, or even seen a new model Hensoldt, however from what I have heard the glass in Premier is a bit better (and it is great glass=at least as good as S&B IMHO) and is very durable. The Hensoldt is claimed to be a bit more rugged, and quite a bit more expensive. Run it over with a tank retriever and dust it off kind of durability . Like I say I have no experience with either, but for my money the Premier is the way to go, I have a 5x25x56mm on order right now. Be prepared to wait about 1-2 mo. for delivery though. </div></div>
At least you admit you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maverick223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have not used either, or even seen a new model Hensoldt, however from what I have heard the glass in Premier is a bit better (and it is great glass=at least as good as S&B IMHO) and is very durable. The Hensoldt is claimed to be a bit more rugged, and quite a bit more expensive. Run it over with a tank retriever and dust it off kind of durability
At least you admit you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
i have seen the pricing on both.....one is higher than giraffe pussy......
i have seen the pricing on both.....one is higher than giraffe pussy......
Re: premier vs hensoldt
Dern, Bolt, every time I think I have tried everything someone comes along and reminds me of something I never thought of.
I do like my Premier guarantee for life though.
Dern, Bolt, every time I think I have tried everything someone comes along and reminds me of something I never thought of.
I do like my Premier guarantee for life though.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have seen the pricing on both.....one is higher than giraffe pussy......</div></div>
That's my take on the subject as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have seen the pricing on both.....one is higher than giraffe pussy......</div></div>
That's my take on the subject as well.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
I have talked to some of the people selling both of them and they tell me that the premier glass is as good as or better than anything else out there and are substantially overbuilt. That being said, I was/am just asking people who might have had or used either or both of them if the asking price on the hensoldt is worth the extra coin that it would cost to get one. If they are worth the extra money I will try and save up for them. Unfortunatly, for the cost of them and the relative small amount of dealers that carry either of them, it would be impossible for me to check or see them by themselves let alone side by side. I do not know anybody that lives by me or that I am friends with that have either of the scopes in question. RG
I have talked to some of the people selling both of them and they tell me that the premier glass is as good as or better than anything else out there and are substantially overbuilt. That being said, I was/am just asking people who might have had or used either or both of them if the asking price on the hensoldt is worth the extra coin that it would cost to get one. If they are worth the extra money I will try and save up for them. Unfortunatly, for the cost of them and the relative small amount of dealers that carry either of them, it would be impossible for me to check or see them by themselves let alone side by side. I do not know anybody that lives by me or that I am friends with that have either of the scopes in question. RG
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At least you admit you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. </div></div>
I have seen the Premier and note that it has excellent glass, it has as good of glass as I have seen in any scope and that is good enough for me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At least you admit you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. </div></div>
I have seen the Premier and note that it has excellent glass, it has as good of glass as I have seen in any scope and that is good enough for me.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
I will gladly supply a scope for an unbiased comparison. Lowlight has spent time with both and would be a good candidate if he is willing and has the time.
No, unfortunately they are not what most would consider inexpensive, but that seems to be the way of things that are worth having.
I would gladly pontificate how magnificent and stunning the scopes are and describe in detail some of the technical aspects of our optics, but coming from me it wouldn’t mean much given the circumstances.
Hensoldt, now Carl Zeiss Optronics, has been at this for 160 years now. It would be difficult to stay in business that long making subpar equipment. If you look at the scads of surplus Hensoldt optics that are available, they are all a testament to the quality and durability of the products produced by Zeiss. The ZF 6-24x72 is currently the standard issue scope on the German DSR No. 1 and prior to that the 3-12x56 SSG and SSG-P were standard issue on the German G22. The ZF 6X42 Hensoldt was the standard issue on the HK PSG1 sniper rifle. I have seen Hensoldt scopes from the 40's and 50's that are still in use on custom Mausers and other sporting rifles of that era. Many of the scopes that are on the surplus market have long survived the demise of the original firearms they were mounted on.
If you look around a while, there are a few people that have been able to do comparisons for extended periods of time. There are over 100 years of military service behind the Hensoldt name. Like it says below, “The truth does not fear investigation”. I do invite you to do the research and make a well informed decision when making an investment of this type. If you are like most, either scope you choose will be a significant purchase and not one to be taken lightly.
If anyone has any questions feel free to post them or PM them to me. If I don’t know the answer I will do my best to find it.
Best regards,
Nathan Hunt
I will gladly supply a scope for an unbiased comparison. Lowlight has spent time with both and would be a good candidate if he is willing and has the time.
No, unfortunately they are not what most would consider inexpensive, but that seems to be the way of things that are worth having.
I would gladly pontificate how magnificent and stunning the scopes are and describe in detail some of the technical aspects of our optics, but coming from me it wouldn’t mean much given the circumstances.
Hensoldt, now Carl Zeiss Optronics, has been at this for 160 years now. It would be difficult to stay in business that long making subpar equipment. If you look at the scads of surplus Hensoldt optics that are available, they are all a testament to the quality and durability of the products produced by Zeiss. The ZF 6-24x72 is currently the standard issue scope on the German DSR No. 1 and prior to that the 3-12x56 SSG and SSG-P were standard issue on the German G22. The ZF 6X42 Hensoldt was the standard issue on the HK PSG1 sniper rifle. I have seen Hensoldt scopes from the 40's and 50's that are still in use on custom Mausers and other sporting rifles of that era. Many of the scopes that are on the surplus market have long survived the demise of the original firearms they were mounted on.
If you look around a while, there are a few people that have been able to do comparisons for extended periods of time. There are over 100 years of military service behind the Hensoldt name. Like it says below, “The truth does not fear investigation”. I do invite you to do the research and make a well informed decision when making an investment of this type. If you are like most, either scope you choose will be a significant purchase and not one to be taken lightly.
If anyone has any questions feel free to post them or PM them to me. If I don’t know the answer I will do my best to find it.
Best regards,
Nathan Hunt
Re: premier vs hensoldt
That is what I am trying to do, but getting one of these to sample, let alone both of them at one time is gonna be damn near impossible for me. If anyone is in the Houston area and has one or the other I would really appreciate being able to go to the range and check it out. I am a member at PSC which is one of the better ranges in the Houston area with several different places to shoot. Pm me if you would be interested in going out to check something out. I just want to buy once and cry once. It seems like either of these would fit the bill. Most likely better scopes than I would ever need in my lifetime. RG
That is what I am trying to do, but getting one of these to sample, let alone both of them at one time is gonna be damn near impossible for me. If anyone is in the Houston area and has one or the other I would really appreciate being able to go to the range and check it out. I am a member at PSC which is one of the better ranges in the Houston area with several different places to shoot. Pm me if you would be interested in going out to check something out. I just want to buy once and cry once. It seems like either of these would fit the bill. Most likely better scopes than I would ever need in my lifetime. RG
Re: premier vs hensoldt
Rundm,
Kirkpatrick guns in Laredo, TX T
956) 723-6328 and Authorized Optics in Hammond, LA T800) 979-8890 are the closest Hensoldt dealers to you.
I think there are a few guys at Kirkpatrick that have used both scopes.
I hope that helps.
Take care,
Nathan
Rundm,
Kirkpatrick guns in Laredo, TX T
956) 723-6328 and Authorized Optics in Hammond, LA T800) 979-8890 are the closest Hensoldt dealers to you.I think there are a few guys at Kirkpatrick that have used both scopes.
I hope that helps.
Take care,
Nathan
Re: premier vs hensoldt
I own a Hensoldt 3-12x56 Sf since Sept 2007.
Since Oct 2008 ist has continously been in warranty repair because the view through it was not clear and you couldn´t hit your target with it. Since now, Hensoldt needed three trys to get the scope back to working somehow. I can´t see what this has to do with anything superior.
Again I just want you to consider this before you buy.
I ordered a Permier 3-15x50 with I investigated at IWA. I think this is enough said.
Buy what you like, but remember, the Permier was made to USMC standards.
For a more detailed version of the story feel free to PM me.
Dan
I own a Hensoldt 3-12x56 Sf since Sept 2007.
Since Oct 2008 ist has continously been in warranty repair because the view through it was not clear and you couldn´t hit your target with it. Since now, Hensoldt needed three trys to get the scope back to working somehow. I can´t see what this has to do with anything superior.
Again I just want you to consider this before you buy.
I ordered a Permier 3-15x50 with I investigated at IWA. I think this is enough said.
Buy what you like, but remember, the Permier was made to USMC standards.
For a more detailed version of the story feel free to PM me.
Dan
Re: premier vs hensoldt
There it is, Dan says they suck, and he knows, he's from Germany.
Glad I bought my Premier, it hits the target and everything!
Though it ain't politically correct, I am a fan of the Monroe Doctrine: buy American!
There it is, Dan says they suck, and he knows, he's from Germany.
Glad I bought my Premier, it hits the target and everything!
Though it ain't politically correct, I am a fan of the Monroe Doctrine: buy American!
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuDisCo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will gladly supply a scope for an unbiased comparison. </div></div>
I wish you'd have made that offer when I asked for one a month or two ago, I had a Premier, NXS F1 and S&B all in the safe to compare it to.
I now only have the Premier, not saying it was head and shoulders the best but it was the best value for sure.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuDisCo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will gladly supply a scope for an unbiased comparison. </div></div>
I wish you'd have made that offer when I asked for one a month or two ago, I had a Premier, NXS F1 and S&B all in the safe to compare it to.
I now only have the Premier, not saying it was head and shoulders the best but it was the best value for sure.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
WOW I have several Hensoldt scopes and have never had a problem.I would like to hear more!!!!!!!
I do think the premier is the best value going right now.
WOW I have several Hensoldt scopes and have never had a problem.I would like to hear more!!!!!!!
I do think the premier is the best value going right now.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
Rancid Coolaid I actually don´t understand your post completely. I didn´t say they suck I just described what happend to my an what Hensoldt had don so far. Therefor I don´t understand why you make a fool of me, if you did.
Rancid Coolaid I actually don´t understand your post completely. I didn´t say they suck I just described what happend to my an what Hensoldt had don so far. Therefor I don´t understand why you make a fool of me, if you did.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
The Premier scopes are a new joint venture from two firms that have never made complete scopes before... they "are made to USMC standards" but since they have been out since september 2008 and they have not been adopted by the USMC, for whatever reason, despite numerous claims at the time of launching (and before) that "they had the contract". What we know is that some of the first series of their scopes had turret problems, and that they changed the turret design. Apparently PR has a great scope, and perhaps the factory will survive in time, get good contracts, and make a great splash in the tactical market... but perhaps not.
The Hensoldt/Zeiss name and their trajectory in the optical world needs no introduction, as well as the fact that the german army adopted them and actually has DIN standards for testing.
The Premier scopes are a new joint venture from two firms that have never made complete scopes before... they "are made to USMC standards" but since they have been out since september 2008 and they have not been adopted by the USMC, for whatever reason, despite numerous claims at the time of launching (and before) that "they had the contract". What we know is that some of the first series of their scopes had turret problems, and that they changed the turret design. Apparently PR has a great scope, and perhaps the factory will survive in time, get good contracts, and make a great splash in the tactical market... but perhaps not.
The Hensoldt/Zeiss name and their trajectory in the optical world needs no introduction, as well as the fact that the german army adopted them and actually has DIN standards for testing.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have seen the pricing on both.....one is higher than giraffe pussy...... </div></div>
Boltripper, you should know they are all the same size when you lay them down!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have seen the pricing on both.....one is higher than giraffe pussy...... </div></div>
Boltripper, you should know they are all the same size when you lay them down!
Re: premier vs hensoldt
Very interesting topic.
In Europe, we use US or European scopes. US are cheaper, but the lens are totally differents.
I've had several brand and in my opinions
The best is Leupold Price/quality.
NF and USO are too much expansive for the lens quality
IOR is good, but depending of the scope! you're lucky or not!
S&B and Hensold are perfect. usefull and Lens are.... wonderfull
Swaroski & Zeiss. Lens is awesome. but not tactical turrets!
I'll try Premier reticle, one day. theirs works on leupold scope were very good.
Very interesting topic.
In Europe, we use US or European scopes. US are cheaper, but the lens are totally differents.
I've had several brand and in my opinions
The best is Leupold Price/quality.
NF and USO are too much expansive for the lens quality
IOR is good, but depending of the scope! you're lucky or not!
S&B and Hensold are perfect. usefull and Lens are.... wonderfull
Swaroski & Zeiss. Lens is awesome. but not tactical turrets!
I'll try Premier reticle, one day. theirs works on leupold scope were very good.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
TiroFijo, remember that a name doesn´t make a great scope. And according to my knowledge, the Hensoldt scopes are made to accoplish the Mil Std 810 E or F if I´m right. I do not know a DIN for scope tests.
One more thing: I know only the German army (Bundeswehr) who uses the Hensoldt scopes. But I very sure information that the KSK uses S&B.
I hope this helps
TiroFijo, remember that a name doesn´t make a great scope. And according to my knowledge, the Hensoldt scopes are made to accoplish the Mil Std 810 E or F if I´m right. I do not know a DIN for scope tests.
One more thing: I know only the German army (Bundeswehr) who uses the Hensoldt scopes. But I very sure information that the KSK uses S&B.
I hope this helps
Re: premier vs hensoldt
The KSK fields the G36 and G22... Both wear Hensoldt optics.
This is also the case with the GSG-9
The KSK fields the G36 and G22... Both wear Hensoldt optics.
This is also the case with the GSG-9
Re: premier vs hensoldt
Nathan check your pm
Nathan check your pm
Re: premier vs hensoldt
They also field some more rifles. Some of them might be american made.... Some might not wear Hensoldt. But S&B. I know what I know. And I´m very sure.
You can believe me or you can´t. Actually I don´t care. I just posted what I encountered and what I know. Thats all.
And I do NOT know anything over the GSG 9 because this is a totally different party.
They also field some more rifles. Some of them might be american made.... Some might not wear Hensoldt. But S&B. I know what I know. And I´m very sure.
You can believe me or you can´t. Actually I don´t care. I just posted what I encountered and what I know. Thats all.
And I do NOT know anything over the GSG 9 because this is a totally different party.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuDisCo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will gladly supply a scope for an unbiased comparison. </div></div>
I wish you'd have made that offer when I asked for one a month or two ago, I had a Premier, NXS F1 and S&B all in the safe to compare it to.
I now only have the Premier, not saying it was head and shoulders the best but it was the best value for sure. </div></div>
Jason,
I appreciated the offer, but you must realize that in this industry it is not a difficult task to find someone to agree to recieve a scope for an evaluation. I recieve these requests almost daily.
David Fortier has written a review that should be out in shotgun news in the next few weeks. I look forward to seeing what he has to say.
I must be selective in who I work with or I could easily have more stock in demo than inventory.
I have posted it before and we will do a direct and unbiased comparison, most likely with LL and the guys at Rifles Only. I think in this forum we all could agree that they would be capable of producing satisfactory and objective results.
Best regards to all,
Nathan Hunt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuDisCo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will gladly supply a scope for an unbiased comparison. </div></div>
I wish you'd have made that offer when I asked for one a month or two ago, I had a Premier, NXS F1 and S&B all in the safe to compare it to.
I now only have the Premier, not saying it was head and shoulders the best but it was the best value for sure. </div></div>
Jason,
I appreciated the offer, but you must realize that in this industry it is not a difficult task to find someone to agree to recieve a scope for an evaluation. I recieve these requests almost daily.
David Fortier has written a review that should be out in shotgun news in the next few weeks. I look forward to seeing what he has to say.
I must be selective in who I work with or I could easily have more stock in demo than inventory.
I have posted it before and we will do a direct and unbiased comparison, most likely with LL and the guys at Rifles Only. I think in this forum we all could agree that they would be capable of producing satisfactory and objective results.
Best regards to all,
Nathan Hunt
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dan17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rancid Coolaid I actually don´t understand your post completely. I didn´t say they suck I just described what happend to my an what Hensoldt had don so far. Therefor I don´t understand why you make a fool of me, if you did. </div></div>
I'm not making a fool of you.
My point, perhaps not clear and too subtle, is that anecdotal evidence is just about all any of us have when evaluating scopes and ascertaining what scopes have done for others.
With this thread, I pointed out 2 data points: your scope is broke and don't work, my scope works very, very well. Were those the only 2 data points to consider, the choice is clear. They aren't, nor should they be.
I have anecdotal evidence that the earth is flat, I put my level on certain spots in my front yard and and the bubble is in the center, proof is what you believe it is.
It'd be very naive to take our 2 data points and make any valid claims, but that seems to be what happens daily on the world wide web.
I'm not saying wise council has no value, it most certainly does; but establishing which scope is better than another - via anecdotal evidence - is a very good way to make a very bad decision.
More clear now?
I speak some German, I can repost auf Deutsch, but it'll have to be laced with explitives, that's what I know best.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dan17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rancid Coolaid I actually don´t understand your post completely. I didn´t say they suck I just described what happend to my an what Hensoldt had don so far. Therefor I don´t understand why you make a fool of me, if you did. </div></div>
I'm not making a fool of you.
My point, perhaps not clear and too subtle, is that anecdotal evidence is just about all any of us have when evaluating scopes and ascertaining what scopes have done for others.
With this thread, I pointed out 2 data points: your scope is broke and don't work, my scope works very, very well. Were those the only 2 data points to consider, the choice is clear. They aren't, nor should they be.
I have anecdotal evidence that the earth is flat, I put my level on certain spots in my front yard and and the bubble is in the center, proof is what you believe it is.
It'd be very naive to take our 2 data points and make any valid claims, but that seems to be what happens daily on the world wide web.
I'm not saying wise council has no value, it most certainly does; but establishing which scope is better than another - via anecdotal evidence - is a very good way to make a very bad decision.
More clear now?
I speak some German, I can repost auf Deutsch, but it'll have to be laced with explitives, that's what I know best.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
Dan 17, thanks for the clarification
May I ask if you are related to Premier or Optronika?
Dan 17, thanks for the clarification
May I ask if you are related to Premier or Optronika?
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuDisCo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rundm,
Kirkpatrick guns in Laredo, TX T956) 723-6328 and Authorized Optics in Hammond, LA T800) 979-8890 are the closest Hensoldt dealers to you.
I think there are a few guys at Kirkpatrick that have used both scopes.
I hope that helps.
Take care,
Nathan </div></div>
I am one of the guys at Kirkpatrick that has used them all. Like I said you need to see it to understand the difference. The glass on the Hensoldt is freaking amazing. I have owned almost all of the top scopes and I have access to shoot the ones I dont. I own US OPTICS, Nightforce, IOR at this time. Kirkpatrick sells all the top names. Whatever you buy as far as the top scopes are concerned you wont be dissapointed. There is only one top name I would not own and I wont say which one it is. Buy what you can afford and be happy. But I can tell you this if you want to be happy with what you own DONT LOOK THROUGH THE HENSOLDT!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuDisCo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rundm,
Kirkpatrick guns in Laredo, TX T
956) 723-6328 and Authorized Optics in Hammond, LA T800) 979-8890 are the closest Hensoldt dealers to you.I think there are a few guys at Kirkpatrick that have used both scopes.
I hope that helps.
Take care,
Nathan </div></div>
I am one of the guys at Kirkpatrick that has used them all. Like I said you need to see it to understand the difference. The glass on the Hensoldt is freaking amazing. I have owned almost all of the top scopes and I have access to shoot the ones I dont. I own US OPTICS, Nightforce, IOR at this time. Kirkpatrick sells all the top names. Whatever you buy as far as the top scopes are concerned you wont be dissapointed. There is only one top name I would not own and I wont say which one it is. Buy what you can afford and be happy. But I can tell you this if you want to be happy with what you own DONT LOOK THROUGH THE HENSOLDT!
Re: premier vs hensoldt
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dan17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rancid Coolaid I actually don´t understand your post completely. I didn´t say they suck I just described what happend to my an what Hensoldt had don so far. Therefor I don´t understand why you make a fool of me, if you did. </div></div>
You got that covered all on your own!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dan17</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rancid Coolaid I actually don´t understand your post completely. I didn´t say they suck I just described what happend to my an what Hensoldt had don so far. Therefor I don´t understand why you make a fool of me, if you did. </div></div>
You got that covered all on your own!
Re: premier vs hensoldt
it's really a tough call on this, and honestly, has to come down to personal preference as well as potential use.
First you have to give credit to Premier, starting from scratch and introducing a scope of the caliber they did is fantastic. They did an excellent job and they continue to adjust as necessary, which is nice to see.
You also can't discredit the history of Hensoldt or the Zeiss name. Let's face it everything is compared to Zeiss and there is no scope optically "better" (Generally) as they are the standard to which everyone's glass is judged.
As far as durability, again you have 9 months of service versus 160 years of service, so that is a little tough to compute, and honestly it comes down to percentages. The percentage of scopes that need repair versus the amount of use and number of scopes on the street. There is no way to compare one or two problems to a whole line or history, although one can add or subtract based on the same problem recurring over and over, however I don't see either company suffering from this.
Both have their heroes and villains and both have something to be valued over the other.
Personally, I would have to know a few things:
1. How many rifles do you see sitting under this scope in an average year of use ?
2. How much value to do you place on the optical design, overall size, weight, eye relief. Is it a cross over scope or a dedicated tactical set up only.
3. Is optical clarity really important, some what important, if it's close does it matter... how about sight picture ?
4. Reticles, what do you plan on doing with it, punching paper, steel, etc. Will a thicker reticle work?
5. Turret adjustments, tactile feel, click spacing, etc.
I know what my uses are, I know both scopes can accomplish any task I ask of it, however one might make my job easier over the other scope so is simply accomplishing the mission enough.
Only the owner and shooter can really answer these questions. I know given the choices, and comments above I will say I give a some extra credit to the Hensoldt over the Premier, but only a small amount, which maybe saying a lot or not really saying anything at all. To me, the one test to highlight the true optical quality of the Hensoldt over any other scopes is that sight picture / Eye relief test, especially when the clarity is close, because that sight picture takes the clarity debate off the table. Then it comes down to size, weight, use, wants and needs... in many ways you can't ignore the history, of both scopes, and while that may not be fair to Premier, it is a valid point.
Quality with optics has been proven over and over to be in the eye of the owner... so don't let the masses make the decision for you, but instead have real questions to be asked, then the answers become more inline with your needs, rather than their personal likes and dislikes. Just because I like something over the other doesn't mean you'll feel the same way, but we can identify what you need versus what someone else likes.
it's really a tough call on this, and honestly, has to come down to personal preference as well as potential use.
First you have to give credit to Premier, starting from scratch and introducing a scope of the caliber they did is fantastic. They did an excellent job and they continue to adjust as necessary, which is nice to see.
You also can't discredit the history of Hensoldt or the Zeiss name. Let's face it everything is compared to Zeiss and there is no scope optically "better" (Generally) as they are the standard to which everyone's glass is judged.
As far as durability, again you have 9 months of service versus 160 years of service, so that is a little tough to compute, and honestly it comes down to percentages. The percentage of scopes that need repair versus the amount of use and number of scopes on the street. There is no way to compare one or two problems to a whole line or history, although one can add or subtract based on the same problem recurring over and over, however I don't see either company suffering from this.
Both have their heroes and villains and both have something to be valued over the other.
Personally, I would have to know a few things:
1. How many rifles do you see sitting under this scope in an average year of use ?
2. How much value to do you place on the optical design, overall size, weight, eye relief. Is it a cross over scope or a dedicated tactical set up only.
3. Is optical clarity really important, some what important, if it's close does it matter... how about sight picture ?
4. Reticles, what do you plan on doing with it, punching paper, steel, etc. Will a thicker reticle work?
5. Turret adjustments, tactile feel, click spacing, etc.
I know what my uses are, I know both scopes can accomplish any task I ask of it, however one might make my job easier over the other scope so is simply accomplishing the mission enough.
Only the owner and shooter can really answer these questions. I know given the choices, and comments above I will say I give a some extra credit to the Hensoldt over the Premier, but only a small amount, which maybe saying a lot or not really saying anything at all. To me, the one test to highlight the true optical quality of the Hensoldt over any other scopes is that sight picture / Eye relief test, especially when the clarity is close, because that sight picture takes the clarity debate off the table. Then it comes down to size, weight, use, wants and needs... in many ways you can't ignore the history, of both scopes, and while that may not be fair to Premier, it is a valid point.
Quality with optics has been proven over and over to be in the eye of the owner... so don't let the masses make the decision for you, but instead have real questions to be asked, then the answers become more inline with your needs, rather than their personal likes and dislikes. Just because I like something over the other doesn't mean you'll feel the same way, but we can identify what you need versus what someone else likes.
Re: premier vs hensoldt
I do not have the pains of owning a website, but Frank is starting to sound a lot like Paula Abdul.
I do not have the pains of owning a website, but Frank is starting to sound a lot like Paula Abdul.
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