Rifle Scopes Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

S

spotswood

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Aug 23, 2009
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#1
Hi everyone:

I need some more input. I am about mentally masturbated out in deciding which scope for my new AR15 match barrel for target shooting/plinking for 300 to 1000 yds.
I love the 5x25x56 S&B gen II reticle but don't like the price at 3500. Seems like overkill for what I will use it for.
The Premier 5x25x56 with the same reticle seems like a good option with same focal plane reticle and seems identical to the S&b for 1000 less from SWFA.
The Nightforce 5.5x22x56 with Zero stop and Mil turrets with the NPR1 reticle also seems like an option for even less even though the focal plane is different.
I would like to use the reticle for hold over as a ballistic reticle in case I do not have time to click in the adjustments on the turret in case I am varmint shooting as I do once in a while.
Please give me some opinions.
Thanks
Gary
 
#2
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

Optics opinions are as varied as they come.

Here is mine.

First, seems like a lot of scope/weight for that rifle, JMO>

Second. I have owned a Premier 3-15. Awesome scope. I currently own a PMII 5-25. IMO, I like it better. Prefer the knobs and cant tell any difference in the glass between USO, Premier and S&B. Overall, the PMII is my favorite. They can be had much cheaper than you mentioned.

I had a NF 5-22. Great scope, but didnt compare with the big 3 IMO. And, to be honest, it shouldnt have to, it is much cheaper, in the 2fp format at least.

If you buy a Premier, see Scott. Great pricing, great guy.

If that were my rifle, it would likely wear a model 60000 Leupold MKIV.

Again, IMO, that is the best $1K scope out there. And I know that will draw flames. It is what it is. We all have opinions. Especially on optics. Good luck.
 
#3
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

If you are going to get a NF, have the turrets match the reticle (MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL). You can't go wrong with any of the ones you mentioned. Try and get to a rifle match or class, so you can look through the different glass and see what would work best for you. I like the NF for your application, but if you have the coin and want FFP, the Premier would be the ticket.

FYI, here is the NF mildot reticle 5.5-22x-56 and the Premier 5-25, both at 11x. As you can see the Premier FFP is still plenty large at 11x, but when you crank it down it gets pretty small, too small for my poor eyes...

Reticles Pic
 
#4
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

You really can't go wrong with any of them.

I've not been behind a PH yet (it's at the top of my "to buy" list) but from my experiances I do think the difference between the S&B and NF is pretty significant (whether the S&B is worth all those extra bucks is a personal decision I won't attempt to wade into since it's seems to whip people into a frenzy)

I do think they're all a bit much for an AR-15 though, but of course you can always swap the scope to another rifle if the urge takes you.

 
#5
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

Hydro 556: Who is Scott if I decide to go the Premier route? Is he at SWFA?

Starvin: I may end up moving the scope to a 308 next year.

Thanks much for the input.

Gary
 
#7
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

you can have the ph for alot less than the 2400 you are talking about from Scott Berish of Liberty Optics. The ph has as good of lenses as will be found on the s and b and it will cost you alot less. Just my opinion but I just got the ph and I think it is the tits
 
#8
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spotswood</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The Nightforce 5.5x22x56 with Zero stop and Mil turrets with the NPR1 reticle </div></div>

Nobody makes a scope with an MOA reticle and MilRad knobs, all the scopes listed are too much for a 223, I have a 5.5-22x50 NF and find myself turning it down all the time, my next scope be either a NF F1 or a S&B 4-16, I'm not discounting the PR, but I don't buy anything brand new to the market.
 
#9
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

427 isn't the nightforce f1 brand new to the market??? and also wasn't that their first ffp scope? i know nightforce has been around forever and makes great stuff. but so has premier and their work is well know. just playing devils advocate here
smile.gif
i own nightforce premier and uso. i don't own a S&B but everyone knows they are amazing. any of the scopes will do what you need and well beyond. i would recommend you go ffp though. good luck w/ your choice
 
#10
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

First, seems like a lot of scope/weight for that rifle, JMO>

</div></div>

I agree with Hydro on this. Not sure you're gonna like any of these behemoths on your AR15. I have a USO SN3-TPAL and a PH 5-25x56 and they're both TANKS! If you have any other rifles these might sit on i.e. a long-range bolt-action rifle, then by all means, get one (PH is my choice for features, quality and price, but your mileage may vary).

For an AR15, I'd get an ACOG with a Doctor Red-Dot on top. I have this setup and it's surprisingly accurate out to 400-yards, but then again I have it mounted on a 16" barrel i.e. more of a close-quarter weapon. I've played with mounting high-magnification scopes on it and it's fun, but my AR (and I do stress MY AR), just isn't capable of the accuracy needed for 600+ yard shots,... even with tweaked-up handloads.

I don't want to discourage you from getting one of these scopes, actually, I encourage you to get one, but not for an AR15. Unless you have a long-barreled, custom rig that you've already developed tack-driving handloads for, I think you'll find that any of these scopes discussed are going to be FAR more scope than your AR15 is capable of fully utilizing.

I have a long match barreled 6.5 Grendel (AR15) I bought a few years back and played with mounting my USO on it, but it's just too dang big-n-heavy and I can't imagine trying to put the PH on it - can you say 'top-heavy'. I have a 4-14x44 Falcon Menace on it now that works great!

I guess I'd just caution you to make sure that your rifle is really as accurate as these scopes are. If not, you're gonna get frustrated shooting at long range,... but you'll definitely be able to see your misses clearly
smile.gif


Ryan
 
#11
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: grunt soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">427 isn't the nightforce f1 brand new to the market??? and also wasn't that their first ffp scope? i know nightforce has been around forever and makes great stuff. but so has premier and their work is well know. just playing devils advocate here
smile.gif
</div></div>

Yes they are new to the civilian market but have been in use for about a year with the troops before they hit the civilian market so they aren't exactly new.
 
#12
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

Well, I have a NF F1 and it is a great scope. However, I came across a deal at Bauer arms for the S&B PMII 4-16x 50m P4F illum. LOVE the S&B and now the F1 that I bought in April 09 for $2290 is for sale in the classifieds. If you want to use the reticle to hold over, definitely get a FFP scope. Also stick with Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA. My suggestion is Mil/Mil. I think a 5-25x scope is too much for a .223 and you would be much better off with a 1.8-10x, 3-12x, 3.5-15x or 4-16x.

My 16" barreled AR15 has a Swarovski Z6i 1-6x with Circle Dot reticle in a LaRue mount. It is the sh_t for an AR. At 1x illuminated, it is better than any red dot. Crank it up to 6x and with practice you will easily hit steel out to 400, 500, 600.

Good luck

Tim
 
#13
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

Thanks you guys.
I have a 16 inch barrel AR that has an ACOD 4x32 on it and it is good out to 300 for me.
This new AR is a 20" match barrel on a Rock RIve Predator lower.
I plan to play with a 5x25 on it and if it is too much scope which I think it is I will switch the new 5x25 onto a bolt action 308 and scale down to a 4x14.
My friend is using a Zeiss conquest 4x14 with a ballistic reticle and it is not bad but I would like a little more magnification and a thinner reticle.

I am finding out that the Premiers are hard to get right now. Liberty Optics is telling me they might have some in November.
Gary
 
#15
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

I have used all and my opinion is, never hold out on what you want because of price..... I personally like the s&b way better than the premier and the night force is not even comparable. Get what you want not what your wife wants you to get. :)
 
#16
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: grunt soldier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">427 isn't the nightforce f1 brand new to the market??? and also wasn't that their first ffp scope? i know nightforce has been around forever and makes great stuff. but so has premier and their work is well know. just playing devils advocate here
smile.gif
i own nightforce premier and uso. i don't own a S&B but everyone knows they are amazing. any of the scopes will do what you need and well beyond. i would recommend you go ffp though. good luck w/ your choice </div></div>
I believe Premier is relatively new in the market as an optics manufacturer!
 
#17
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

True, but Premier knows Leupold and S&Bs scope better than Leupold and S&B do. They had an above-average knowledge base to start out with when they designed the Heritage.

I want to try one...but it's a big investment just to see if I like it.
 
#18
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M4guru</div><div class="ubbcode-body">True, but Premier knows Leupold and S&Bs scope better than Leupold and S&B do. They had an above-average knowledge base to start out with when they designed the Heritage.

I want to try one...but it's a big investment just to see if I like it. </div></div>

It is not as if you will lose your ass if you have to resell it.
 
#19
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

True. I am gonna check out one locally this week and then decide between that and a 4-16x42 PMII. The gun it's going on won't be here til next week anyhow. I have to go to Modern Day Marine in a couple weeks and may swing up there to Premier while I'm close.
 
#20
Re: Premier vs S&B vs NF decision

After reading this and some other threads about glass, I finally took the effort to take out a S&B, a USO (those two I just got recently) and one of my NF and put them out on the porch on the railing (a wide railing!) and compared them side by side, all on 12X (randomly picked but a magnification that was within all 3 of their ranges) and I will be darned if I can tell a real difference in the glass, at least looking at 200 or 300 yards. Honestly, if anything, I thought the NF was the "clearest" of the 3 as I seemed to see the bullet splashes on a gong at 200 yards the clearest with it.

In any event, all 3 have some super glass in them. Ergonomics are a bit different between them. But I cant says I saw enough difference, or anything, really, to justify the almost double cost for the S&B over the other 2. But then, I normally shoot irons (high power shooter) and glass is just something I play with now and then, so I dont spend that much time looking thru glass, good glass or otherwise. Maybe if I spent more time peering through it I would notice subtle stuff more. Dunno.

Can someone tell me what I "should" be noticing? :)

John
 
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