press question

[coulthard_west]

ive got a lee single stage press that i use for my .308 bolt rifle and ar. i also have a dillon square deal B for pistol. i was wondering if there is anyone out there using a 550 for precision rifle loads for long range accuracy? im really liking the fact that i can set up my dies and leaving them in place. would make loading a little faster. any thoughts

 

[shooter.dm]

Re: press question

Is the 550 a progressive press if so you half to youse a powder that measures constant on every drop

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: press question

no, the 550 is not a progressive. with each stroke of the handle the turrent has to be turned by hand.

 

[shooter.dm]

Re: press question

Then I would not see any difrent from a single stage

 

[50APIT]

Re: press question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: s.i.t.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no, the 550 is not a progressive. with each stroke of the handle the turrent has to be turned by hand. </div></div>

I assume you are referring to a Dillon 550, which is a progressive press. It does not have a turret rather it has a movable shell plate that allows each case to "progress" to the next station. Just because you have to manually index the shell plate, does not mean it is not a progressive press.

To address the original question, I have a few progressives presses, including a Dillon 550, but I use a single stage press for my loading. I use extruded powders in several of my loads, which the Dillon powder measure is not well suited for. Additionally, I would get a little more variance in headspacing with the 550 than I did on my single stage.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: press question

I use the Dillon RL550B for all my reloading. I hand check/weigh charges for bolt/match loads, and use the powder measure with loads intended for semi's. The Dillon measure works reliably enough with ball powders, and reliably enough (for my needs) for semi's with nearly all powders.

When I do my load development, I concentrate on finding loads that do not require special handling. If a load's performance is too finicky to be reliably loaded in progressive mode, it does not meet my selection criteria.

If you like doing the extra work, then develop your loads so they require it. If you don't, then don't.

Are my loads less accurate? Almost certainly.

Are they accurate enough that their performance does not restrict my own? Absolutely.

IMHO, the grand majority of shooters do not have either the equipment or skills that justify the kinds of BR-Centric handloading obsessions that I see being posted on this site many times each day. The same goes for much of the precision equipment obsessions seen about as frequently.

Most shooters can handload ammunition progressively and use it in a factory-stock rifles to a degree of performance that is not and will not soon be diminished by the simplicity of their gun and ammo.

It's not that they're bad shooters, it just that the guns and ammo are that good.

It's not that the more precision ammo and equipment won't help, but it won't do anything special until the shooter's abilities grow into them.

That's not going to happen just because the ammo and equipment got better. It's going to happen because better equipment requires better skills to make it work; the hardware can't do all the heavy lifting on its own.

Folks who don't grasp this simple truth more than occasionally turn out to be customer service nightmares for legitimately great gun builders.

Greg

 

[shooter.dm]

Re: press question

This you speak of is true

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: press question

this is what im looking at,

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25792/catid/1/BL_550_Basic_Loader

ill still be using my rcbs auto trickler for the powder but everything else will be done on the dillon. at least this way, in my opinion, there wont be that much more waisted time in between sizing and seating unless i have tpo do some trimming.

 

[turbo54]

Re: press question

I load my precision rifle ammo on Dillon machines. I've used both 550 and 650, though I prefer the 650.

There is NO reason not to do it. It works great.

Couple points:

1. You can leave one station on the toolhead empy, and just drop a Satern powder funnel in the toolhead hole. When the ram comes up, the case will engage the funnel and lift it up. You can then pour the charge in.

2. I've done a statistical study on the Dillon measure with Varget powder, and found it to throw (40 samples) with an extreme spread of .50gr and a standard deviation of .112gr. Statistics tells us that 99.7% of ALL SAMPLES EVER will fall into a range that is +/- 3 times the standard deviation, which means +/- .336gr.

A proper OCW load workup could very well make that totally acceptable for most purposes. Don't forget that Federal GMM 308 ammo has been shown to be NO BETTER than +/- .5gr!!

3. I highly recommend the 650 over the 550 PARTICULARLY for loading rifle ammo. Namely, the casefeeder works for rifle cartridges, and it auto-indexes. Believe me, it is awesome to dump hundreds of cases into the feeder, hold the lever in one hand, a beer in the other, and have ALL of those cases deprimed and resized before you're done with your beer.

 

[ksthomas]

Re: press question

Been using a RL550 for many years to load precision ammo, but I also use a number of single stage presses as well. Thgey've all got their places. The troublesome word in your question isn't "progressive." Progressives and precision can go together quite well. The word that concerns me is "fast." Fast and precise don't go well together, and something usually has to give.

There's another point that I'd consider here, and that's that you're loading for an AR, which is by definition and advanced form of handloading. The problem with a progressive in this application is that it takes a fired case that's inserted into the shellholder, and gives you back a loaded round with every pull of the handle. Not really a good thing when you stop and consider that there's no place for case inspection, verifying headspace, trimming, chamfering/deburring, and a host of other operations that may (or may not) be needed between the time the brass comes out of the tumbler, and it goes back in to boxes as loaded ammo. I do use a 550 for some of my match loading, but I do it in a way that doesn't really match up with most people's idea of a truly progressive press. I use a two step operation, that results in sized, tumbled and sometimes primed brass, being charged and having bullets seated. I sometimes use the 550 for sizing as well, but in that instance, sizing and depriming is all that's done before the brass comes back off the press for inspection, trimming or anything else it needs before being charged and having a bullet seated.

Even the charging and priming operations are done a bit differently when I use the Dillon. In the charging, I use a Redding BR-3 or BR-30 measure, mounted to the adapter that Dillon sells. I like these measures much better, and they generally give much better results than the Dillon measure when using the extruded tubular powders I favor. As for the priming, I will sometimes use the Dillon press and priming system, but ALWAYS employ a followup QC check to ensure that all primers are seated below flush with the case head; an especially important check when loading for an AR or other military style autoloader.

However, once you get a system in place and think through some of the potential pitfalls, the Dillon will definately make it easier to produce large amounts of match quality ammo in less time.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: press question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: s.i.t.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ive got a lee single stage press that i use for my .308 bolt rifle and ar. i also have a dillon square deal B for pistol. i was wondering if there is anyone out there using a 550 for precision rifle loads for long range accuracy? im really liking the fact that i can set up my dies and leaving them in place. would make loading a little faster. any thoughts </div></div>

I've done this with a 650. Get a powder die that accepts a funnel. I used a Lee Universal Rifle powder die and modified a Lee plastic funnel so it would clear the primer magazine.

I then use a Chargemaster to dispense the powder load. Only thing to remember(!!!!) is to make sure you only pour the powder in the funnel while the operating handle is down.

I also put Dillon Powder dies in each unoccupied station that are adjusted down to contact the shell holder. Since I'm not using the automatic powder measure I don't use the powder check station. Just put a powder die in this station. By using these extra dies, the shell plate is forced evenly against the head of the ram. Less OAL variation this way. Also, I have installed the Unique-Tek Tool head clamp system. This is a pair of threaded inserts for the tool head and it's now held in place against the top of the channel the tool head rests in. This eliminates the usual up/down movement of the head, again contributing to more uniform OAL's.

If you combine the manual powder measurement system, along with tool head clamps, with some competition quality dies Like the Forster Bench Rest series you will see ammo coming out of your progressive that will be equal to that of single stage presses.

The key is to make sure the shell plate/tool head relationship is constant.

One can also consider the floating die tool heads that allow the die to align itself with the case as it's sized or the bullet seated.

I've been able to load about 100 rounds per hour using my 650 and this method using prepped and primed cases.

Yes, it's nice to have everything all set up and ready to go, assembling ammo with a single pull of the lever. A little expensive for a "stand alone" but if you have a Dillon 550/650 already, why not?