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Pressure signs... why now?

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Minuteman
May 2, 2010
71
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59
New York
I'm looking for a little help with a question I have.
In early October I loaded about 300 rounds of 308 ammo and shot almost all of them. I had about twenty left that I just shot yesterday. I had no signs of pressure on any of the other cases - but did on some of this last twenty, including tough bolt lift.

Why now? It is colder now - it was 38 yesterday.
The load is Lapua brass, 46 G Varget, 210 Primer, 155 Scenar 2.85 COAL.
Gun was a TRG 22 26" long.

Any Ideas?

Thanks for the help.
Mike
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

If the fouling is built up it could increase velocity and pressure. Not a definite answer to why. But a possibility. I know that after several hundred rounds my velocity alway increases. JAA
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

possibly oil in the chamber from the cleaning, this causes the case to go full pressure on the bolt face and not grip the walls of the chamber.
just a guess, I had that happen to me with fgmm on a stock rem 700.
let us know if you figure it out.
Adam
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

That is why Greg Langilus of local fame states that he only loads what the next match needs...the brass changes with time...whether up or down is problematical. I find that by using HxBN or other such as moly, helps. The slight cold weld that can happen with clean brass and clean bullets is eliminated. The change in brass tension with aging, isn't. None of which is predictable on our level. JMHO
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

I ran into the same problem, using the same bullets, win cases and 46.7grns of Varget. For me it was the bullet slightly crushing the powder load when seating, then over a short period of time pushing the bullet up out of the case. This caused my normal ten thousandths off the lands to be more like 6, that little increase caused pressure signs. To little neck tension, long bullets, reasonably full cases of powder.
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

Old thread, I know.....

Just curious, did cleaning solve your issue, or anybody else's for that matter, whose had similar issues?? I'm going to have to try that as well. Although it's only been 85 rounds since my last cleaning, I hope that is the problem.

I worked up to 47.4gr Varget with Lapua brass/155 Scenars. When I was working up and load testing (3 different nights in the 50's and 60's) I had ZERO signs of pressure. 47.4 shot fantastic so I settled on it.

Went out tonight to shoot a good string through the chrono and after the third shot or so I got sticky bolt and ejector marks. It was high 40s tonight with a brisk breeze, so it was quite cooler then when I was load testing the last two weeks. I was right in the same ballpark as when I was load testing, 2900-2910 fps. These rounds were loaded up last night, so they're fresh. Just checked lengths and the bullets are not being pushed out. I'm not anywhere near the lands in my rifle anyways, loading at 2.800".

Any other rhyme or reason as to why I am getting high pressure now, but not before, during load work up???

Thanks
Fisky
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

Call me crazy, but I think Varget goes faster in COLD temps.

Heres why I think this:

I developed a MAX load last summer in ~75° weather. Velocity was 2655

I validated it by going out on a 98° day, and let my ammo lay in the sun for an hour. It was too hot to touch. Velocity was 2645.

This winter, at 40°, that same load went 2665.

This winter, I noted I get FAINT ejector marks occasionally - say one out of ten shots, though never a stiff bolt.

This was all done on the same lot of powder and bullets and brass, though my initial data was on 1x or 2x brass, and over the winter it was up to 4x or 5x.

Thoughts?
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

Just a suggestion. Sometimes in my rifles I need to go back & hit the first 8 inches or so including the throat with JB BoreBrite. Make sure the cases are squeaky clean & also that the chamber is cleaned with something on the order of Acetone.
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

When Hodgdon first marketed the Extreme product feature, they released a small pamphlet depicting Varget velocities across a wide temperature range. While velocity variance was small, it <span style="font-style: italic">did</span> support the counterintuitive tendency to run a little bit faster at particularly low temps (sub freezing).

While 46gr of Varget with a 155 may be hot for a particular rifle, it essentially duplicates the load that was being produced for Palma comp back around when they were still providing the ammo for the comp. But the real problem with a generic load is that component specs can wander over time.

2.85" OAL is longer than SAAMI spec, and may be into the lands, depending on the rifle. Pressure spikes can result from this.

The place I would look hardest would be the case length. If the neck is jamming past the actual neck/chamber length, it can generate significant, perhaps dangerous, pressure spikes.

The only time I ever personally witnessed a gun mishap with handloads, we traced it back to an overlength case. Several of the unfired cases from the batch measured well past the nominal max case length.

Ya <span style="font-style: italic">gotta</span> measure those cases before you seat the primers.

This is where the handloader can miss a problem when doing straight progressive reloading. The case length can grow when you're using the expander ball. I recommend resizing all the cases of a reloading batch as single step and measuring each case length before proceeding to the primer seating step.

Yes, neck bondng can cause pressure spikes, but my guess is that their contributions are probably toward the smaller end of the scale, and probably are more of a safety issue when other issues combine with them to raise pressures. My primary objection to long term storage is based on the potential for inconsistent bonding to alter velocity spreads enough to degrade accuracy.

Greg
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

My cases are all new FL sized Lapua. They were all sized at the same time. Case length averages out at 2.010".

Quick follow up....

I cleaned my bore and chamber and went out today and put 10 quick rounds through the chrono. I had ZERO pressure signs within the first 10 rounds. Avg velocity was 2890 fps, so cleaning lowered my velocity approx 20 fps.

I shot 5 more after that and 3 of the 5 cases had extractor marks. No sticky bolt. Didn't shoot these through the chrono so I don't know if I had a spike in velocity with those 3 or not.

As much as I want 47.4 to work for me (it's damn accurate), I think I'm going to drop down to a lower node around 45.5gr and see what I get for accuracy there. I think I'll continue to have problems with 47.4 as it warms up.

Thoughts???

Thanks
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No way that load is too hot.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fisky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buddy just ran it through QL and came up with 76,509 psi.</div></div>

Are these statements in reference to 47.4gr Varget + 155 Scenar?

That doesn't seem too hot to me at all?!?!

When I ran ladders with the 155, I had loaded up to 49.5gr (!!), expecting to not get that far. I got that far. No pressure signs: casehead flow, bolt lift, flat primers... Velocity at 49.5 was 2990ish. 24" barrel. LC72 Match brass.
 
Re: Pressure signs... why now?

Yes, I'm shooting the 155 Scenar, 47.4 Varget.

2.800 COAL. 22" barrel

113.3% loading density, aka compressed.

Primes have shown no signs of pressure, just sticky bolt yesterday, which the cleaning seemed to cure, at least for today, and some extractor marks on case head.