- Thread starter crowe938
- Start date
Everyone else saw the AB broadcast where it made it clear primer seating depth is pointless. It's an overengineered tool that yields no benefit over a basic hand primer from RCBS or the like.
Feniks Technologies
Premium Ammunition and Loading Supplies
Supporter
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
It’s far faster and easier on the hands.
That alone is worth it to some.
Also, in the AB video, he stated he hasn’t seen anything to suggest it. Not that it absolutely doesn’t matter. That’s a significant difference.
There are a few fairly respected testers out there who have shown data that suggests it might be beneficial in some disciplines at certain skill levels.
There are several bench mounted priming tools on the market that use primer tubes and are lever actuated for a fraction of the price of the CPS. If I were cynical I would say those priming tools were knocked off by Primal Rights. Fortunately I'm not very cynical.
Feniks Technologies
Premium Ammunition and Loading Supplies
Supporter
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
I’ve used or still own them all. The CPS is still more comfortable for me.
Is it worth $600? They sell out quickly. So, apparently they are. At least in the quantities currently produced.
Also, I responded to the poster saying it doesn’t do anything a hand primer won’t do. Which is just not the case.
I realize this isn't conclusive data by any means, but it made a significant difference in my results. The results are consistent for me in the limited number of groups that I've shot in my testing. I'm extremely pleased with the results.
Primer seated at .009" below flush:
Primer seated at .011" below flush:
Primer seated at .009" below flush:
Primer seated at .011" below flush:
True, a hand primer isn't a bench primer.
But AB said……
I've seen quite a few people taking sides on this, but there seemed to be enough evidence (for me) to test it out for myself. Glad I did.
Do it a few more times, blinded to the seating depth
Do you know what the crush is on the .011 seating? I am currently running .002 crush on everything I load.
I'm using Lapua SRP brass and CCI 450 primers. Lapua primer pocket is .120" deep. Primer cup depth excluding anvil is .110", with anvil it is .120". That would make crush .011". Given the measurements it seems a little odd that I can seat them at .011 under when it should bottom out at .010" under, but that's what the actual measurements are. A few even seated at .012" under. Manufacturing tolerance variance I guess? Primer seating depth was measured with an Accuracy One primer gauge that was zero'd just before measurements were taken. Also checked zero after measurements and it held zero.
I'll have to arrange for an assistant to make it truly blind. At some point you have to know what ammo was shot at what target to get the data. For what it's worth I really expected the .008" or .009" seating depth to be closest to optimum, but it didn't work out that way.
I am going to take the word of the Foremost Ballistician for Precision Small Arms over some rando on the internet and his 2 5 shot groups.
Would you take Erick Cortinas word? All I’m saying is try it for yourself instead of just taking someone word for it. Obviously plenty of people have noticed a difference and plenty haven’t
Last edited:
If there’s a difference, a true one, most people will see the results. If it’s noise it will be hit or miss. So….
Another youtube dickhead who makes money off dumb people buying their shit and watching their videos. You people eat this shit up, Like the Ultimate reloader fool preaching to everyone about PRS and then he comes in 74th out of 80. Someone who has never shot PRS, any type of shooting competition or hunted before scored more hits than him. They need legions of morons to feed them.
Primal rights makes and sells very nice stuff but at the end of the day their business is to Sell shit. Corina's business is to sell shit and get people to watch his videos which is also a revenue stream for him. Sometimes they cross. Same reason Ultimate Reloader pimps every product they show and never had a bad word to say. Youtube reviews are modern day paid advertising. No different than Ad Men or Doctors being paid to tell people smoking is healthy.
Again, what most of us consider the foremost expert of internal and external ballistics for precision rifles says there is no difference, there is probably no difference. At least not for practical applications. If I was trying to set a benchrest record or Fclass, than maybe I would spring for one, every small advantage can help, no matter how small. Its like Neck turning for PRS, complete waste of time and money. I know people with CPS and those without. Its a piece of Gucci gear like the 419 press that doesn't really translate to smaller groups. Easier than a hand primer and looks really nice on the bench. If you can afford it then why not, but don't pretend like its some kind of tangible advantage. If it was, everyone would be using them.
I dont own a CPS, however really like it. Ive watch 2 of his streams, and he is real knowledgeable in his area of research. I dont exactly agree with everything he says, but thats fine, thats a me problem.
I was still willing to invest the time and watch.
Erik is the same. I dont watch his stuff, its too "click-baity" so avoid it where i can. His interviews are really good however, and watch those.
Ultimateshill reloader annoys the piss out of me. "All the gear, no idea". He makes EXCELLENT production quality videos, great content, has interviewed some well know people in the industry who I respect, however there is something about him which is creepy. Bet he shoots a 270.
Probably a really chill dude who id have a beer with, just on screen he comes across as someone id actively avoid.
I was still willing to invest the time and watch.
Erik is the same. I dont watch his stuff, its too "click-baity" so avoid it where i can. His interviews are really good however, and watch those.
Ultimate
Probably a really chill dude who id have a beer with, just on screen he comes across as someone id actively avoid.
I agree with DBDM, and it's exactly like my Prazipress 150 - it's Gucci gear and I love it for aesthetics and feel not because it makes better ammo. Thomas Turban, the maker, doesn't promise any magic with it - just a well engineered and manufactured, fantastic piece of equipment like WTC dies. If Turban or anybody else for that matter was a douche like Porkan from Primates in Tights, and tried to bullshit me about supposed advantages with smoke and mirrors and puerile antics and crybaby videos, I'd avoid buying it out of pure spite despite liking Gucci gear - which is exactly what I'm doing with the CPS
Feniks Technologies
Premium Ammunition and Loading Supplies
Supporter
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
What’s interesting is the flip flop on AB and Litz.
- Litz says primer seating may not matter = gospel
- Litz says tuners and positive compensation is more voodoo than science and isn’t consistent enough to be predictable = he’s wrong and doesn’t know shit
This isn’t directed at you personally. Just an observation that people tend to invoke AB/Litz only when it suits them.
I dislike Greg as a person which is why I refuse to buy the CPS. I think he stands on the shoulders of giants while claiming the credit. Having used the CPS I think it needs product improvement.
Guys stop being mean to Greg, he's gonna make another "Forums are dead" video.
He's the most divisive, controversial guy on SH, and most in need of a PR consultant for his business. Imagine how successful he could be if he matured and learned some prosocial behaviors and social skills
I was swayed by the CPS, I bought one, it is an improvement over the RCBS bench to me, I will say it is the first accidental primer ignition in my face I have ever experienced. Caused by a tight Lee shellholder and trying more force than necessary. I probably wouldn't spend the money again, it is a nice priming machine, it could use some tweaking, I also believe if the RCBS bench primer were introduced today it would be substantially higher priced than it is. The CPS may take less force to seat a primer than the RCBS. I have both on a 24" 2x12 that lays on my bench, I have the opposite end weighted so I can move it out of the way. The CPS takes less weight to remain stable.
This is what is commonly called an opinion, in some instances an informed opinion.
Have you frequented the Bear Pit? What about the Porta John thread?
I sum it up to harbor freight vs snap on. Both will get the job done, but one feels better than the other. I’m lucky to have received one during the Christmas giveaway. Honestly I haven’t measured shit and just seated the primer. Still making great ammo, but my hands and fingers aren’t suffering anymore. To me that’s worth it’s weight in gold.
Imagine if they got together and made a Youtube video interviewing each other. Oh wait...
Double Dutch Rudder
The least gay way for two men to masturbate together. Each participant grabs his own penis with his right hand and grabs the other participant's right elbow with left hand. Both participants work the others right elbow to jack each other off. It is considered not gay because they are only touching their own penises. This is the reason it is commonly practiced in Columbus, OH to celebrate Buckeye wins. Pryor & Tressel do it. Krenzel and AJ Hawk did it. Herbstreit and Cooper started it (unofficially).
You would be wrong. All due respect, the CPS is a totally different design. The most similar design was the bald eagle primer. They no longer make that unit, and it was a single feed.
Hands down one of the most brilliant scenes ever to be written for television. Priceless.
Who is AB?
Applied Ballistics
Bryan Litz works for AB, applied ballistics, and also berger bullets. He is a ballistician (aerodynamacist or... Rocket scientist ? Someone please clarify) and he has written 4(?) Books on bullet aero / stuff. Super smart. Ive got all his books, read 2, and still dont understand most of it.
Also wrote lots of the math behind ballistic solvers, for current gen stuff, not the original 2 methods. (He is part of a team, theres other dudes who are equally as austically smart, just he seems to be more up front than other).
He has not found any value in primer seating. As long as it is seated properly, its good.
Also wrote lots of the math behind ballistic solvers, for current gen stuff, not the original 2 methods. (He is part of a team, theres other dudes who are equally as austically smart, just he seems to be more up front than other).
He has not found any value in primer seating. As long as it is seated properly, its good.
