Gunsmithing Primary Extraction Problem??? Pics

[WB300]

Hiders...

I'm having a problem with what I believe is primary extraction. Rifle is a Remage G prefix with a Bartlein barrel in 223. After firing, I lift the bolt to where it contacts the extraction ramp and it won't go any further. It doesn't slide with the angle of the ramp and the bolt will not pull back to extract. There seems to be no primary extraction. The bolt doesn't pull right out, but takes a little whack to break it free so I can extract. This happens with factory and reloads.

In doing some search fu... there seems to be alot of space between the bolt handle and the receiver when in the cocked position, but I don't have feeler gauges to get an exact measurement. I am not a gunsmith and I am still learning, but from what I'm seeing..... is this due to lack of primary extraction?

I will attach pics of the contact points on the extracting ramp of the receiver and the bolt handle angle. The lighter marks are where they make contact. On my 2 other Rems, the contact wear is 3x - 4x the area of this one, and I don't seem to have any problems.

Thanks in advance.

Will

 

[TRPrecision]

1st simple check, with a feeler gauge what is the distance between the front of the bolt handle and the receiver?

 

[Supersubes]

Judging by the wear marks, you do have some primary extraction, but minimally so. Also, that’s an extractor cam, not a cocking cam. Cocking happens on the other side of the bolt.

 

[Hateca]

You said Bartlien barrel has this receiver been trued? If so exactly what was done to the receiver? Truing a receiver can make Remingtons extraction cam worse if too much metal was removed and or it wasn’t checked before cutting commenced. if you are having issues your only option may be to have the bolt handle repositioned. Some have got away with tig welding a blob of metal on the bolt handle and shaping it to allow more contact for more extraction.

 

[WB300]

TRPrecision - I don't own feeler gauges but may need to invest.

Supersubes - thanks... not sure where my brain was while typing. I edited the post.

Hateca- The action was not trued. Bartlein prefit, bug nut, and headspaced.

 

[Supersubes]

LRI offers a time and tig service that’s a quick turnaround.

 

[1moaoff]

Send to LRI

 

[Thud]

What happens with no round in chamber is the bolt function normal.
Have you checked the screws from the scope ring bases.
Maybe they are too long causing drag on the bolt.
Doesn't hurt to check.

 

[LRI]

GUNSMITHING SERVICES: Time/TIG and Time advance/Tig Handle attachement for M700

Our Bolt handle fitting process for the M700 restores the Primary Extraction feature after the action has been blueprinted. Careful TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding aids in joint reliability by creating a stronger union at the shear point between the bolt handle and bolt body. The process we...

www.longriflesinc.com

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Tell us about your ammo. History of the brass and sizing.
It sounds like you are either using brass fired in another chamber or there is an issue with your sizing.

 

[WB300]

Thud - bolt function is normal on an empty chamber.

DAVETOOLEY - factory ammo was FGMM 69 gr Sierra BTHP. Reloads are Win brass. Some are new where I ran the expander ball through the necks, and some are previously fired from this chamber. For the previously fired,, I use a Wilson case Guage to push the shoulder back .001-.002", and use the expander ball. Dies are RCBS.

Please let me know what you are thinking. If DAVETOOLEY and Terry Cross are both eyeing my reloading, I'm now doubting myself.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Remove the firing pin and cycle your rounds and see what happens. That may give us some idea as to what's happening.

 

[WB300]

Remove the firing pin and cycle your rounds and see what happens. That may give us some idea as to what's happening.

Loaded Factory FGMM and my reloads cycle fine. I cycled fired brass and most cycled ok, but a few hung up. Not as bad as just been fired, but enough to where it took a little pressure on the bolt handle vs NO resistance on the sized brass.

 

[gnochi]

Remington biases their tolerance stack in the direction of “no primary extraction” because of you have “too much primary extraction” it’s literally impossible to close the bolt because the distance from lug to handle on the bolt becomes less than the distance from lug to handle cutout on the action.

Some actions are better than others due to how tolerance stacks work, but it’s a fundamental decision with low-cost manufacturing. For better or worse the Savage design is correctable with spacers, the Remington design needs to have the bolt handle itself moved, hence Chad’s time-and-tig service.