Prone comfort

[josh.rizzo]

I just shot my first prone match. My shoulder hurts, indicating I need a new recoil pad. My upper back/neck and my shoulder blades also seem quite sore. Any advice for better prone comfort over long periods?

I think I may need to raise my rifle up (using a 6-9" Harris BRMS and a small rear sandbag). Or its lower better?

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[djskit]

You shouldn't be sore after a prone match...soreness inplies that you were using the muscles in your neck and back a great deal. You should have ZERO muscle strain when behind the rifle.

It's hard to diagnose your prone position via a message board - but get behind the rifle and RELAX - if you are not comfortably behind your scope and your rifle is not on target - figure out how to adjust things (scope position/height, length of pull, rear bag, bipod, cheek riser, etc) to get comfortable.

I've also never had a sore shoulder after shooting hundreds of rounds - again, you're doing something wrong - there are plenty of resources on how to get behind a rifle - all better written that I can do here.

Sign up for the marksmanship vidoes here on the Hide - that should point you down the right path.

 

[soter1]

The first question most should be asking is what is your experience shooting in multiple positions/prone? Secondly, have you practiced laying in the prone position for more then 5 - 7 minutes to take several shots? At the school house we lay under our rifles for several hours to feel that pain, its a gut check but teaches you what to expect and how to fix it. Don't worry, practice those positions at home, it will build some of those muscles up. Stretch and work out to get better results. It will come.

Generally speaking, lower is better, but it depends on who you talk to. Mil/Leo guys like a low profile. Having to raise your shoulder blades off the ground to marry your rifle stock generally creates Lumbar back pain because of the spines extension position.

 

[kansas]

I've got a stiff neck with disc damage and a little arthur in there so I've found that using a pillow or a blanket folded up and tucked under my chest eases the strain on my neck. For your shoulder I'd recommend either a brake installed or a suppressor. Either will help with recoil.

 

[josh.rizzo]

I experimented a little more and found a better position a little lower and using no neck muscles. I like it except that only the top corner of the recoil pad is contacting the shoulder pocket. That seems like a recipe for pain! Can someone describe in more detail exactly what part of the recoil pad should be in what part of your shoulder? I've been searching around and all I find is information about the shoulder pocket and not what part of the recoil pad should touch it...

 

[soter1]

I experimented a little more and found a better position a little lower and using no neck muscles. I like it except that only the top corner of the recoil pad is contacting the shoulder pocket. That seems like a recipe for pain! Can someone describe in more detail exactly what part of the recoil pad should be in what part of your shoulder? I've been searching around and all I find is information about the shoulder pocket and not what part of the recoil pad should touch it...

The majority of the recoil pad should be in your shoulder. But that isn't what fixes your problem. Check the videos on the Hide for more detail as Frank explains them well. You need to check your prone position and your center axis, make sure your spine and leg is center line or median with the bore of the rifle, and feet are flat on the ground this will help with dissipating recoil. Also, you need to load your bi-pods with forward weight...Above all, if technique isn't helping, look at a muzzle break, suppressor or a different caliber.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

At first a good prone position may feel unnatural to a novice shooter. Solicit the aid of a highly qualified coach to observe and help you build a proper position. There is no substitute for coach observation. This is mandatory.

 

[kraigWY]

If you get sore in the prone (or any other position) it means you're muscling the rifle. If you're muscling your rifle, you have a poor position.

I've found that using a pillow or a blanket folded up and tucked under my chest eases the strain on my neck.

Adding pillows and blankets do not fix the problem, it mast the problem. You need to fix the problem. I know many here are dead set against the "cocked leg" position, go ahead and trash it, but you cant dispute the fact it takes pressure off the stomach and diaphragm.

You have the pressure or discomfort that's indicated, they you are going to subconsciously or even consciously adjust your position to relieve the pressure that's causing the discomfort; that means muscling and muscling means fatigue.

If you have back-neck problems that cause discomfort then find a coach that knows how to deal with disabilities to help you find a position that works for you. There is no law that says prone or any other position cant be modified.

When my wife was activated and deployed in 2003, she couldn't shoot prone because she broke her back coming off a colt in '99. I was at Bening when she was processing. Of course being retired I wasn't allowed on the range. The qualification required shooting from the prone so I talked to some cadre about her problem asking them to find some one who knew something about coaching and disabilities, they did and he found her not only a position that worked for her, but allowed her to shoot expert. She broke her back again while deployed and now has 3 rods between her shoulder blades. Not a lot of movement, but I can get her to shoot prone without discomfort.

To me, watching people shoot while flopping around like a chicken with his head cut off grates me like fingernails on a chalk board, but you see it at every range. Then you see others who don't seem to move at all. If it wasn't for the rounds going off you'd think they were sleeping.

As to recoil: Brakes work, yes, but again its mast the problem instead of fixing it. Laying down behind a rifle that's resting on sand bags fore and aft, does nothing to control recoil. However, if you were to property use a slung position, the recoil is distributed through out the whole body and not just the shoulder. No law says you cant use a sling with sand bags or bipods (except in the CMP Vintage Sniper Matches, you can use a sling or bipod but not both). Try the sling with your bipod or sandbags.

When you get into a prone position, totally relax, dropping into a total relaxed comfortable postilion, using no muscles, close your eyes and relax. Now open your eyes and see if the sights are lined up. If not, then adjust WITHOUT muscling. If your off windage wise, pivot on your belt buckle, if its elevation, then adjust elevation by sliding the support hand fore and aft on the stock or if you're using sandbags or bipods adjust them accordingly. The close your eyes, fall back into a totally relaxes position, open your eyes to check your NPA, if its off, repeat the above process.

Too many people know what they are suppose to do, but instead of correcting the position, they get lazy and muscle the rifle to push the sights on the target. Muscling. You're right back where you started.

There are some great DVDs out there, Franks has some, Rifles only has some, as do others. They point out what is suppose to be done, but the authors of the DVD's don't watch you shoot to see if you are following their instructions. If you can't find a comfortable position on your own, then find a coach who can.

 

[josh.rizzo]

Thanks for all the info! Here is what helped me in the hopes that it will give others ideas:

One interesting thing I adjusted was to angle my cheek rest so that it was higher on the scope end and lower towards the recoil pad. This made it more comfortable for me to rest the entire weight of my head on the stock and let me relax more. With the flat/parallel cheek piece, I found it painful to rest my face on it fully, so I was unconsciously using some neck muscle, which is what I think the problem was.

As far as recoil, the recoil pad on my HS Precision stock was pretty hard, so I put a slip on LimbSaver pad over it and that helped a lot. I don't have any problem controlling recoil, and I have no comfort issues for about 20 rounds, but after that it actually started rubbing a little and that is what hurt my shoulder (it was more of a rash or burn than a bruise). The LimbSaver grips a little better and the slight added length of pull helped me keep it docked with my shoulder better.

For my position, I ended up rolling my torso slightly to my left (I'm right handed). This let me get more of the recoil pad into contact with my shoulder and put my back into a more natural position. I think I just have a really skinny chest and I had to arch my back hard to get up to the scope, even with the stock on the ground. Angling myself just a bit instead of being flat on the ground made my back feel much more comfortable.

 

[wigwamitus]

I find I have to shoot in what I call "high prone" sometimes due to the fact that I am usually shooting on my land and the pasture grass can obscure the target. So I use a 13 inch Harris bipod if I have to shoot at 13 inches or above (use Atlas for 6, 9 and 12). The Harris will also go to 20 (sitting) and 27 (kneeing) when the grass gets really high.
At 13 inches, I can use my elbows from this "high prone" (as I call it) as kind of the "rear bipod" to get up high enough. A bed roll also helps, mostly in terms of providing a more even base for the elbows.
The elbow method seems to eliminate much of the "muscle".

It is hard to simulate shooting in the field with dry frying, because I'm usually shooting elevations (down) in the field, whereas my living room floor is flat. Don't need the bedroll in the living room, but it seems to help in the field.

I've been trying to get a "coach" to come out here and help, but none have arrived yet .

 

[Pester]

Josh, sounds like you are making progress. There are a lot of videos out there that can really help if you have questions. Even later on they are a great reminder.

At the range last weekend I was shooting and the guy next to me had a buddy commenting on his shooting. Between shots I listened in and everything said was a good reminder for me. Everyone tends to ask for help when needed and having someone knowledgable there while your shooting is the best path to success.

Have fun and be safe