• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Proof research barrel questions

Anthony_Va

Private
Minuteman
Jan 10, 2022
9
2
Virginia
I posted a thread but it seems to have disappeared.
It was long winded lol but I'll keep this one shorter.
This new barrel will close the bolt on a no go gauge. Barely but it closes so I'm not that worried about it.
The issue I have is the short throat. I loaded some 140 gr sierra mks at 2.810" as the data states. They won't come close to chambering in the rifle. I had to seat them all the way to 2.755" before they would clear the lands. I've emailed them a few times but haven't come to any conclusions yet with them. They just keep asking the same questions about what bullet I'm using even though I told them like 3 times. So I plan to call tomorrow. Just wanted opinions from others before I call. Should I be concerned? I plan to shoot 1k yds with the rifle and I also have about 5.5k in the rifle/scope combo. I just feel the throat is really too short.
 
I posted a thread but it seems to have disappeared.
It was long winded lol but I'll keep this one shorter.
This new barrel will close the bolt on a no go gauge. Barely but it closes so I'm not that worried about it.
The issue I have is the short throat. I loaded some 140 gr sierra mks at 2.810" as the data states. They won't come close to chambering in the rifle. I had to seat them all the way to 2.755" before they would clear the lands. I've emailed them a few times but haven't come to any conclusions yet with them. They just keep asking the same questions about what bullet I'm using even though I told them like 3 times. So I plan to call tomorrow. Just wanted opinions from others before I call. Should I be concerned? I plan to shoot 1k yds with the rifle and I also have about 5.5k in the rifle/scope combo. I just feel the throat is really too short.


...IIRC, this was for an AR10 build..

....a simple answer would be to get a set of tools like the Hornady Lock-N-Load® O.A.L. Gauge, a modified case in the caliber(s) you have, calipers, Lock-N-Load® Bullet Comparator, and Bullet Comparator Inserts. With these tools you can measure EACH brand/type of bullet you might use in YOUR chamber to determine where exactly that bullets ogive profile contacts the lands AND the resultant COAL. These tool will also allow you to determine the COAL and CBTO measurement of each bullet to your chamber AND if that COAL measurement will fit in your magazines. For some VLD type bullets (secant ogives) the measured COAL might exceed the magazines allowable max length.

...granted the SIERRA online load data indicates a COAL of 2.810", conversely Hodgdon's online load data indicates a COAL of 2.780", Alliant 2.8" for the same bullet...the measurements from other loading manuals/sites will also vary due to their individual testing equipment and protocols.

... EACH brand/type of bullets ogive profile (secant/tangent/hybrid) has an immediate impact on the seating depth in direct relation to your specific barrel's chamber, hence the need to measure. Tangent ogives make contact with the lands sooner (bullets seat deeper), secant ogives make contact later (bullets seat longer, BUT may exceed magazine allowance). Hybrid ogives will be anywhere in between. Sierra SMK's are tangent ogives, although the newer offerings appear to be transitioning to "hybrids". (That's why PROOF CS kept asking you what bullet you were using, more than likely they have recommendations for multiple bullets they have tested.)

...in your previous post you indicated putting a piece of tape on the rear of the NOGO gauge prevented the bolt from closing on it, you may need to verify if the bolt itself is in spec, i.e. face depth too deep, lug length too short. How you tested also comes into play, i.e., did you remove the ejector & extractor from bolt before testing, did you remove bolt from BCG or did you allow the BCG to close under buffer spring pressure on the gauge? Typically it's best to test headspace BEFORE barrel installation and only with the bolt (ejector & extractor removed), using finger strength to rotate the bolt.

....your loaded COAL of 2.755" is within the SAAMI spec for 6.5 Creedmoor, which has a min of 2.700" to max of 2.825" for Cartridge OverAll Length. You may be overthinking this or misinterpreting/misapplying data you have collected.

...if the expectations of your purchase weren't met, seek return/refund/replacement..
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Earnhardt
...IIRC, this was for an AR10 build..

....a simple answer would be to get a set of tools like the Hornady Lock-N-Load® O.A.L. Gauge, a modified case in the caliber(s) you have, calipers, Lock-N-Load® Bullet Comparator, and Bullet Comparator Inserts. With these tools you can measure EACH brand/type of bullet you might use in YOUR chamber to determine where exactly that bullets ogive profile contacts the lands AND the resultant COAL. These tool will also allow you to determine the COAL and CBTO measurement of each bullet to your chamber AND if that COAL measurement will fit in your magazines. For some VLD type bullets (secant ogives) the measured COAL might exceed the magazines allowable max length.

...granted the SIERRA online load data indicates a COAL of 2.810", conversely Hodgdon's online load data indicates a COAL of 2.780", Alliant 2.8" for the same bullet...the measurements from other loading manuals/sites will also vary due to their individual testing equipment and protocols.

... EACH brand/type of bullets ogive profile (secant/tangent/hybrid) has an immediate impact on the seating depth in direct relation to your specific barrel's chamber, hence the need to measure. Tangent ogives make contact with the lands sooner (bullets seat deeper), secant ogives make contact later (bullets seat longer, BUT may exceed magazine allowance). Hybrid ogives will be anywhere in between. Sierra SMK's are tangent ogives, although the newer offerings appear to be transitioning to "hybrids". (That's why PROOF CS kept asking you what bullet you were using, more than likely they have recommendations for multiple bullets they have tested.)

...in your previous post you indicated putting a piece of tape on the rear of the NOGO gauge prevented the bolt from closing on it, you may need to verify if the bolt itself is in spec, i.e. face depth too deep, lug length too short. How you tested also comes into play, i.e., did you remove the ejector & extractor from bolt before testing, did you remove bolt from BCG or did you allow the BCG to close under buffer spring pressure on the gauge? Typically it's best to test headspace BEFORE barrel installation and only with the bolt (ejector & extractor removed), using finger strength to rotate the bolt.

....your loaded COAL of 2.755" is within the SAAMI spec for 6.5 Creedmoor, which has a min of 2.700" to max of 2.825" for Cartridge OverAll Length. You may be overthinking this or misinterpreting/misapplying data you have collected.

...if the expectations of your purchase weren't met, seek return/refund/replacement..
I am in process of sending it back to them to check out. I also am sending the jp bolt. I checked headspace with the ejector and extractor removed. Barrel off and bolt removed from the bcg I can freely spin it with the Forester no go gauge. I double checked with a PT&g and while it wasn't as easy, it woulda still turn in the barrel.
I do understand variances in data and in these barrels throats, but having to seat down to 2.755 just to clear the lands seems excessive short imo. Either way, I sent them a dummy round loaded to the spec I wanted and they are supposed to cut the throat to fit it. The round will clear the mag so all is well there.
 
IMO a little shorter throat would be advantageous in some respects. As long as you are overly intruding on powder capacity. It would definitely help with throat erosion causing a load to go out of tune, and not having the mag length to seat the bullet at the optimal distance. Some combinations are sensitive in this regard. Others like my proof 6cm barrel seem to be oblivious to seating depth. I’m jumping.145 right now and quarter to third moa at 100. Some food for thought.
 
IMO a little shorter throat would be advantageous in some respects. As long as you are overly intruding on powder capacity. It would definitely help with throat erosion causing a load to go out of tune, and not having the mag length to seat the bullet at the optimal distance. Some combinations are sensitive in this regard. Others like my proof 6cm barrel seem to be oblivious to seating depth. I’m jumping.145 right now and quarter to third moa at 100. Some food for thought.
I fully agree with this response.
However... if you'd rather have the throat / freebore longer... go for it.
I did on a .458 Lott years ago. The added throat allowed Barnes Copper bullets to achieve the velocities I wanted.

FWIW... Weatherby Rifles have some crazy long throats / freebore, for their a lot of their Magnum chamberings. ( Note the 378 and 460 ones )

What is the throat length (free bore) on your Weatherby rifles chambered for Weatherby magnum calibers?​


CartridgeThroat length (free bore)
224 Weatherby Magnum.162
240 Weatherby Magnum.169
257 Weatherby Magnum.378
6.5 WBY RPM.105
6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum.2037
270 Weatherby Magnum.378
7MM Weatherby Magnum.378
300 Weatherby Magnum.361
340 Weatherby Magnum.373
375 Weatherby Magnum.373
378 Weatherby Magnum.756
416 Weatherby Magnum.239
460 Weatherby Magnum.756
30-378 Weatherby Magnum.361
338-378 Weatherby Magnum.361
 
Last edited:
I just hear back from proof. They told me that if a piece of scotch tape on a no go gauge would stop the bolt from closing that it was fine to use.
Also says the bullet I loaded, which is a 140gr sierra mk, had an outdated shape which won't let it be seated out to what their data says. He told me any other bullet can be chambered on this barrel at saami coal. It's on the way back so I guess I'll try some different bullets to see if he's right. If it's truly something with this one type and weight of bullet then I'll rock on with it.
 
Last edited:
Does Proof use a SAAMI reamer on their barrels?

When reloading COAL is thought of as being more important in a mag length limited load.

But BTO is just as, or more important than COAL, when reloading.

If your are not measuring BTO, compared to freebore, then this is not Proof’s fault.